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Trading Psychology and How The Mind Works (IV)
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Trading Psychology and How The Mind Works (IV)

  #31 (permalink)
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George View Post
You see my point?! For i.e. if you have issues with money, and that lies as junk in your subconscious mind, for different reasons. Then the suggestions part (programing) is not going to make a 100% improvement, unless the issues is solved first.

You have to understand that the issue is there for a logical reason, and has the function of protecting you. The moment the issue is penetrated, and the emotional charge is penetrated, then it let's you off it's hook, and the issue is gone. That's the part (meaning after you've resolved the issue) when you can ask the hypnotist to give a program that will keep you fit on trading the way you wish to.

You get my point!? You'd have to do some soul searching in order to grasp your problem. And by doing that you're already half way through it all.
/George

Thank you, George,
That was very clear and very helpful. We'll see how it goes. I'm not scheduled till January. In the meantime, I can get better in touch with "all my (many) issues" (LOL) using The Sedona Method that you and wh have mentioned. Thank you again.

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  #32 (permalink)
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I feel kinda silly about my post in most Highly Recommended Books last weekend w/o having read this thread... I appreciate the comments here a great deal.

As a yoga instructor, I had the understanding of 2 brains (not that it matters really): primitive (reptilian - fight or flight) and the more advanced brain (non reactive).

My experience in yoga was initially (since I was so used to reacting vs feeling uncomfortable or painful feelings) that I preferred the very active yoga-- keep moving all the time was better for me (so I could avoid what was coming up for me).

Then, over time, I learned how to relax into being really uncomfortable (still not my favorite experience.) And, this is where/when I could choose new responses to my practice and outside of class, to people, life, etc.

It is said that yoga helps build the new brain- neocortex - and if one learns to really slow the breath and hold an uncomfortable posture and hang with it, that one really can increase the size and use this (non reactive/choose a response vs. the habitual kicking in) side of the brain more often.

I have been very interested in the mind/body connection, too. My experience is that the muscles/body hold memories/emotions... in fact, there is work (Upleddger: craniosacral therapy) where they took Vietnam Vets who had post traumatic stress syndrome and found that the body had contracted into a certain holding pattern and upon releasing the musculature, that the emotional release had to then be addressed. The body was holding in what was too painful to handle w/o assistance. So, teams have been set up at some forts (Ft. Benning, I think is one), where a massage therapist and a psychiatrist/psycholgist (preferably one with combat exp) helps guide the person thru...

I also see this in my yoga classes where a person holding a particular posture starts crying in class... their body has relaxed and released enough that they are having to deal with the emotional part that was "stuck" in the muscles, etc.

That said, I want to look at the Sedona Method. Have tried some of the other techniques mentioned by George and others.. But in terms of my trading, I clearly still need something. smile

Goldilocks. I found much of that quite interesting, esp. about the two brains business. What about the real lower brain aka the 'enteric'? In the West we have gone so far (until recently) as to actually deny the existence of the lower brain which is often the main focus in Asian techniques of totally different schools - such as hatha yoga and Zen buddhism for example, not to mention samurai-related martial arts, kung fu, Tibetan yogas and so on, all very different and yet all emphasising the real lower brain work (versus reptile element in upper/head brain). And yet even some Western scientists have documented how there is MUCH more synaptic activity in the gut - where supposedly there isn't a brain at all - than in the cortex area. For example: when you raise and lower your arms, the initial synaptic activity is in the gut and it takes more time for the signals to get into the brain area than it does for the arms to start lifting; in other words, the notion that 'the brain' tells the arms to lift is a modern myth akin to a superstition. So many modern people 'believe' that the head brain governs all that even when clear scientific observation documents that this is not really the case, it doesn't shake that belief. And yet if you look at any old Indian yoga chakra system chart (same with Chinese and Tibetan buddhist equivalents) you always see that the gut area chakra has at least double the 'petals' than the brain one, and sometimes far more. This is not new news, in other words, but very old news. The same sort of intelligence that could uncover and work with meridians even though us modern types can't see them with all our fancy technology and head-based analytical/abstract approach, i.e. it's not based on actual body/perception, rather mental theory which is not the same thing at all.

You might find doing some research into basic Chinese medical theory of great interest since their system (it is a multi-system approach but anyway) links various aspects of mind and emotion to various different core organs/energies, sometimes known as the 5 phases/energies. For example: emotions are stored in the central spleen/stomach-ruled complex; long-term memory in the ruling heart/small intestine complex; short term memory and immediate will power in the kidney/bladder complex. Indeed, they don't regard the head brain as very important at all since it is not related to emotions, rather being a switchboard for handling complex data input from the senses, i.e. it's mainly an information/data gathering point, but not the main thing at all in terms of living personality/experience.

I have yet to delve into the psychology-related material for traders, including Sedona etc. and am quite willing to believe that along with a lot of crap, there is some good stuff. I did notice with pleasure and approval that in some of the pieces of Steenbarger which I quickly skimmed through and hope to go through in more depth later, that he made the point that trying to eradicate emotions etc. is a false path.

Again, in the various different yoga traditions from Asia - several of which I was quite familiar with years ago - they agree in general though coming from very different points of view with different goals that, in the words of Peter Gabriel, 'you gotta get in to get out'. In terms of blockages, whether habitually rooted or in terms of ongoing fear/negativity/discomfort etc. the best way to deal with them is to accept them fully and feel them fully. The feelings themselves are the gateway into the solutions, whereas the typical response to unpleasant feelings, especially for example those like the sense of loss/fear that can occur in the trading dynamic, is to avoid them, overcome them, find a way around them.

I think this is the core inner battleground wherein combining method, strategy and experience separates those who can make it as traders and those who cannot. For myself personally, I know I am still on the edge there and the main issues are all involved with the mental/emotional aspect at this point, with various aspects that I am still unwilling to face/see clearly holding me up.


Last edited by cclsys; December 18th, 2009 at 06:41 PM. Reason: spelling, clarity etc. - typed fast!
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  #33 (permalink)
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cclsys View Post
I think this is the core inner battleground wherein combining method, strategy and experience separates those who can make it as traders and those who cannot. For myself personally, I know I am still on the edge there and the main issues are all involved with the mental/emotional aspect at this point, with various aspects that I am still unwilling to face/see clearly holding me up.

Wow. You have lots of knowledge, for sure...

To respond to your subject about the number of brains.. LOL. I think George has pointed out several more than I have in this same thread. I would venture a guess that one can identify a certain number that effectively deals with whatever subject is at hand. In my case, reactiveness vs. non reactiveness was my focus. And, thus, I only dealt with the two mentioned.

One could also start a conversation about the right brain vs. left brain.... most people (Western world) stay in the left and have a difficult time shifting out of the mental body into the intuitive one. George, I believe, touched on this, too, with the theta/beta conversation. And, to me, this is an important conversation.... as if one can use the brain holistically, you have a much greater access to more of what is happening. Yoga helps train a person to use both sides of the brain and as one practices more often, it reinforces that cross over the corpus collosum, which connects the left & right brain to become more holistic.

Yes. Though I'm not professing to be an expert, I do know quite a bit about Oriental medicine, chakras, etc. I am going to sidestep a direct answer on some of what you brought up and merely try to get to something that may be helpful: I have learned that the abdomen is the "seat of wisdom." This has also been indicated as "listening to your gut."

To put them all together, when a person is breathing shallowly, chances are good he/she is in flight or fight mode (beta brain waves) OR can most easily go there. However, if one breathes slowly and deeply into the abdomen, a physiological response happens whereby a person now is more likely to be non reactive and shifts from beta into alpha (theta is even deeper than alpha) brain waves, a more relaxed, creative place.

Many to most people I initially teach in yoga --rarely, if ever, breathe deeply enough to engage the abdomen, but it is an important element. Until one does, chances are good that there is a confusion in the messages the person gets. They might merely be getting emotions: fear, etc. and feel it is their intuition. Or, they feel they ought to take action on emotion vs. allow a delay to check in (non reactive approach). The way I tell my students that they know they hear their intution is that the message comes before anything happens AND it is not necessarily urgent: it does not say "JUMP!!!," it says, "hmm. I think I should do this." And, the message repeats and nags and nudges repeatedly.

That said, many to most people also want to avoid their emotions. I probably used to and still have to watch this: where my head tries to help me avoid something that I fear will be overly painful. So, there is a desire to avoid -- or to try to use a saying/mantra/thought to replace something that hasn't been fully felt or identified yet. I don't think this works. I guess that's why the Sedona Method does: one first feels, identifies and accepts and processes the emotion. Then, it can be released and the person and system moves into a more non reactive (neutral) place.

For people who are extremely mental in their approach to living, trading, etc., I would say adding exercise could be very helpful. Anything that activates a different energy center (chakra), would reduce the overuse of the mind and allow a greater balance to occur in the body. Again, going deeper, down to chakras, 1 & 2, (down into the abdomen), would be logical.

Again, to respond with yoga, to get people out of their heads, one can move the body -- a more active style of yoga (or use cardio, etc.), followed by deep breathing. The deep breathing would follow a strong "workout," as the person has now begun to shift out of the head and into the body (instincts) and has a greater chance of being successful being still.

Thanks for an interesting discussion.

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  #34 (permalink)
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hi guys,
1. who believe there is no chance to change yourself ? yes , you can
2. what are our believes from childhood ? from any time .....did you believe rich peopele are not good ? cary on .......... are you better becauce you go to church ?

please find you believes about abundance.......
3. if you look at the chart, do you see signal to entry ? do you ? if you do , entry , nothing wrong................................folow the steps...........once you entered , can t change it...so there is no time to be stresed..........only if you want to be stresed.....do you ? no ? no reason
4. so please , make your plan , put all your thoughts into it ....step by step........
5.big mike says does anyone say you have to trade,......be pacient....wait for trend..please...wait...

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hi anybody ,
another exercise to observe an actin is to observe all action during a day....let s pratcice......
morning......are you aware of brushing you teeth ? are you aware of making coffee ? are you aware of siting in a chair ?
well , there are lots of thoughts witch disturb our awarenes of yourself.............why ? because we use to thing...a lot.....about a future...about a past...thats disturbing.....

i tell you something.....become a master of you mind......focuse......martial art is an example........meditation is an example.......
start.....once you we have to start...........

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i think answers come from within. inventors have an idea but not the method, work at it until they finally get the right solution, voila, the light bulb. we have intuition also, a knowing and trusting of one's self, feelings, a hunch. i wont trade a hunch yet, but i will trust a hunch i have and test it, often we just discount a hunch with testing it. not because some hunches are incorrect, because we can fake ourself out, our mind has so many "programs" running they can conflict.

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what motivates you

this explains why you want to be a trader, not for the money actually


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  #38 (permalink)
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cory View Post
this explains why you want to be a trader, not for the money actually

Funny how it usually takes a book, powerpoint presentation or government study before we accept what we knew all along.

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Great Video!

Explains alot.



cory View Post
this explains why you want to be a trader, not for the money actually


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  #40 (permalink)
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Letting Go movie


Hi traders,

Have someone already watched "Letting Go" movie, related to the Sedona Method ?

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