Trading Psychology and How The Mind Works (IV) - Psychology and Money Management | futures.io
futures.io futures trading


Trading Psychology and How The Mind Works (IV)
Started: by George Views / Replies:22,123 / 111
Last Reply: Attachments:0

Welcome to futures.io.

Welcome, Guest!

This forum was established to help traders (especially futures traders) by openly sharing indicators, strategies, methods, trading journals and discussing the psychology of trading.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading forums:
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive on our forums.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendor advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in openness and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, it is not something tangible you can download.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.


You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community. It's free and simple, and we will never resell your private information.

-- Big Mike

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Trading Psychology and How The Mind Works (IV)

  #91 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
vienna + vienna/austria
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: tt
Favorite Futures: es
 
Posts: 5 since Jun 2014
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Having been trading professionally for nearly 10 years now, I can tell you that however good your are psychologically/mentally without a statistical edge (competitive edge...whatever you want to call it) all the mental work isn't going to be enough.

So try to first develop a trading edge and THEN work on proper execution.

Just my 2 cents.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to traderich for this post:
 
  #92 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Toronto,Canada
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker/Data: Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: futures (CL and ES),forex,Options
 
Posts: 35 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 14 given, 12 received


traderich View Post
Having been trading professionally for nearly 10 years now, I can tell you that however good your are psychologically/mentally without a statistical edge (competitive edge...whatever you want to call it) all the mental work isn't going to be enough.

So try to first develop a trading edge and THEN work on proper execution.

Just my 2 cents.

I totally agree, but its a catch 22
Lacking the right mindset, will affect your progress in finding that statistical edge and figuring out your mistakes, cause you are operating/trading out of fear and emotions(high Beta state of mind) based on old patterns triggering within your subconscious mind(which most of the time have nothing to do with trading).
once you clear you mind from all the psychological emotional baggage and have peace with those past subconscious emotional triggers/memories, then you can see and think clearly, and start working on developing the right system with high probability setups, and sticking to your rules.
As long as you are unaware of your deeper emotional driving force behind your actions, the mind will always play ticks on you each time your emotions gets triggered subconsciously, and it makes it harder to stick to your own system and rules.

Just my 2 cents

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Guss for this post:
 
  #93 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
Birmingham UK
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Meta + TradeInterceptor + FXCM
Favorite Futures: DAX ( GBPAUD if moving )
 
Posts: 336 since May 2014
Thanks: 7 given, 63 received


It be tough, my conscious brain generally gets it right, but my sub conscious gets in the way and says, no don't take that trade and won't let me push the button then it'll force me into taking a stupid counter method trade which as my method is good is generally going to cost me.

It's ODD for sure, it's what I've been battling against for years, it's getting better, but it's still there and it's annoying as I'm generally a logical un emotional man basically.

But I guess it's stopped me being rich and driving a ferrari and living somewhere nice, so it's all good

Reply With Quote
 
  #94 (permalink)
Elite Member
Mumbai, India
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: ChartNexus
Favorite Futures: Stocks, Commodities, Futures
 
iqgod's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,462 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 3,022 given, 2,449 received

Removing the Roadblock

We come to trading with hopes of quick bucks, an overflowing picture and go through the stages of a trader - the struggle for profitability lasts for more time than we ever anticipated.

After going through the first three stages (mystification stage, hot pot stage, cynical skepticism stage) the trader has truly come far - the fourth stage called the squiggle trader stage. You study so hard and stack so much onto your decisions that you become paralyzed. This is all characteristic of scared money. Without a genuine acceptance of the fact of loss and of the risks involved in trading, you flit around like a butterfly from decision to decision, strategy to strategy, method to method and market to market.

Sadly the vast majority of traders never leave this stage. They spend their “careers” searching for the answer, and even though they may eventually achieve piddling profits, they never become truly successful.

It is at this point that answers are needed, hand-holding is needed. Only then can he open his eyes to stages five and six, namely the inwardly-bound stage and the final mastery stage.

Now the trader is BLOCKED, and he is disturbed. He is ambitious, but he sees random others moving ahead and despairs in turmoil.

How can he be free of this confusion? How can he be confident in his method, actually take the entry and exit when he knows it is time?

The answer is simple. Confusion exists only when there is the Fact plus what the trader thinks of the Fact. He has an opinion of the Fact, an evaluation, or sometimes a disregard of it. If he can only look at the Fact without adding so much color then there would be no confusion.

If the trader recognizes that now the market is in so and so phase and the probability lies heavily towards, say, long (or short, or flat, whatever) then there is no confusion.

Confusion arises only when the trader insists that the road leads somewhere else, i.e. he knows that conditions are ripe for a long yet he freezes and hesitates and then misses entering a trade. Then perhaps he realizes his folly and disregards the Fact that the market has broken out and is almost about to reach his earlier target when he goes long, at the fag end of the trend, paying for the consequences.

Thus his opinions, beliefs, ambitions and desires are rolled into such a strong ball of wool that he weaves his own fantasy wen and is incapable of looking at the Fact. So Fact + judgement + evaluation + ambition = confusion. If he is confused, can he act? Any action born out of confusion leads to further confusion.

Being confused, and to acknowledge that one is confused requires a simple clarity of thought i.e. clear perception. Thus we do not fail to act because we have no courage - far from it - but we fail to act because we do not have clarity of perception.

Thus, we need to be aware of our confusion, and know the cause of that confusion and not act. A confused mind that acts produces further turmoil. But a mind that is aware of the process of confusion understands that it need not act because the clarity is the action once the mind realizes the process.

It is difficult for all of us to understand because we have become habitual to doing, acting... but once the awareness of the mind becomes like a blade then it effortlessly produces action out of the confusion. This is the inwardly bound state that leads to the 'zen' like execution of a trade, effortlessly, intuitively.

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to iqgod for this post:
 
  #95 (permalink)
Elite Member
Montreal, Quebec Canada
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: AMP / CQG
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Dervakon's Avatar
 
Posts: 148 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 408 given, 403 received

Futures Edge on FIO
Hi All,

I would like to make a comment about FasterEFT, I decide to try it because I try other thing who work so so. To be honest, the FasterEFT solve so issue on my psychology side slowly. I got the help of @Guss who help me to solve some problem.

I start to see some improvement on my trading but I need to continue to work on me. I think it a mix of working on your self and have somebody who can point out some issue that you never this way

I'm not where I would like to be but some issue are gone I'm grateful to @Guss who help me to clean some issue

Good luck to all

When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you will be successful
-Eric Thomas
Reply With Quote
 
  #96 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Toronto,Canada
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker/Data: Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: futures (CL and ES),forex,Options
 
Posts: 35 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 14 given, 12 received


Dervakon View Post
Hi All,

I would like to make a comment about FasterEFT, I decide to try it because I try other thing who work so so. To be honest, the FasterEFT solve so issue on my psychology side slowly. I got the help of @Guss who help me to solve some problem.

I start to see some improvement on my trading but I need to continue to work on me. I think it a mix of working on your self and have somebody who can point out some issue that you never this way

I'm not where I would like to be but some issue are gone I'm grateful to @Guss who help me to clean some issue

Good luck to all

Dervakon,

Thanks for your message.
I am so glad I was able to help with your challenges. There is no magic pill or method that resolves the trading emotional/psychological conflicts 100% in trading. It is a process and a journey where a trader has to work hard and put the effort to change his/her bad habits and get rid of the emotional baggage and triggers that are carried within him/her over the years from past emotional experiences. Usually those issues have nothing to do with trading, it more based on our belief system and the way we deal with our emotions and discomfort. once we know the driving force behind our actions then working on those emotions becomes easier. That's what FasterEft is all about.
As trading brings our the worst in us, our job as traders is to stay aware of our feelings, and emotions, and use the right tools to keep us in the right mindset in order to master our game.
Keep in mind, fixing the psychological aspect alone doesn't make one a profitable trader without the experience,discipline and the edge of a profitable trading system.

Thanks again, and wishing you all the best in your journey.
Keep up the good work

Regards,
Guss

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Guss for this post:
 
  #97 (permalink)
Elite Member
Hong Kong
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, TWS
Broker/Data: IB/Kinetick
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 233 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 130 given, 302 received


Turveyd View Post
... ...But I guess it's stopped me being rich and driving a ferrari and living somewhere nice, so it's all good

Hi Turveyd,

Your own quote seems to highlight your issue I believe. You have subconscious limiting beliefs that effectively DO stop you from being rich. I had same problem too! All based on childhood experiences programming much of my adult behavior.

That is definitely NOT 'all good'. Some rich people are jerks, just like anyone else. But if you are good and rich, you can help many others.

And interesting to see the search for the Holy Grail is still very much alive in this thread. Human nature.

Richard
Hong Kong
Reply With Quote
 
  #98 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Long Beach , LA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja, Trade Navigator,
Favorite Futures: Stocks, Currencies, Indices
 
Posts: 43 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 4 given, 19 received

Having made a few mistakes over the yrs the compounding affect has created a fear of loss that I need to deal with . More study etc

Reply With Quote
 
  #99 (permalink)
Elite Member
Helsinki, Finland
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra
Broker/Data: InfinityFutures, IB
Favorite Futures: M6E, 6E, M6B, 6B
 
Sam21's Avatar
 
Posts: 87 since Sep 2015
Thanks: 166 given, 60 received

Hi George,
the link to the healer does not work anymore. It sends me to a site where I can make my own website.


Is anyone who have experience with Emotion Code available for a quick chat?

I'm halfway through The Emotion Code book by Dr Nelson, and I'd love to talk with others that have read and are more experienced. I've read 210 pages today and I will read the rest on Monday.

I don't fully understand it yet although I love the idea and want to experience the healing both as a healer and a patient.

-Sam

Reply With Quote
 
  #100 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Chihuahua, Mexico
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader and Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: TF
 
Posts: 32 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 25 given, 25 received


Well I tried a few session. It did not work for me.

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures.io > > > Trading Psychology and How The Mind Works (IV)

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

2016 True Edge Awards: Voting is open until Jan 21!

Now
 

Anthony Drager: Pulling the trigger with confidence

Elite only
 

Leo Murphy: The Art and Science of Technical Analysis

Elite only
 

FuturesTrader71: Ask Me Anything

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trading Psychology and How The Mind Works (II) George Psychology and Money Management 13 October 5th, 2016 06:07 PM
Trading Psychology and How The Mind Works (III) George Psychology and Money Management 45 March 31st, 2016 01:24 AM
Trading Psychology and How The Mind Works (I) George Psychology and Money Management 17 October 14th, 2015 02:32 PM
E-Day Trading Mind mihabibi Vendors and Product Reviews 3 September 25th, 2015 10:07 PM
The Psychology Of Trading? NYSE Psychology and Money Management 7 November 21st, 2010 10:30 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:34 AM.

no new posts
Page generated 2017-01-21 in 0.15 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 174.129.120.155