Indicators are not the answer - futures io
futures io futures trading



Indicators are not the answer


Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

Updated by Andrew
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one Andrew with 8 posts (0 thanks)
    2. looks_two wh with 5 posts (0 thanks)
    3. looks_3 bigK with 3 posts (0 thanks)
    4. looks_4 benbrooke with 3 posts (1 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one Big Mike with 9.0 thanks per post
    2. looks_two Lynx21 with 6.0 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 Silvester17 with 4.0 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 FBJS with 2.3 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 9,339 views
    2. thumb_up 37 thanks given
    3. group 18 followers
    1. forum 42 replies
    2. attach_file 4 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 100,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Indicators are not the answer

(login for full post details)
  #1 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 49,057 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 31,658 given, 95,054 received

The majority of people in the forum will not agree with what I am about to say. Does this make them wrong? My answer is both a yes, and a no.

Yes, I think they are wrong if they disagree. Am I entitled to my opinion? Sure, and I also respect people that disagree with me. But, I also believe what I am saying to be absolutely true, and I think if you disagree with me, and you think indicators are the answer, then you are wrong.

But -- also a "no", because if you had come to me years ago and beat me over the head nonstop and tried your best with nothing but the best intentions to shove this information down my throat, it would not have worked. I would not have listened. I may have even agreed with you, I may have tried to copy you, but in the end I would not have listened. Maybe my lack of listening was not my intent, but it is what would have happened.

Human beings need to learn for themselves. Copying only gets us so far, we must do it for ourselves to truly understand it and appreciate it. It is the experience that counts more than anything else. And by that is my final answer, which is that people are not right or wrong in a black or white kind of way. There is a lot of gray.

Let me put this another way. How many of you have "learned your lessons" when it comes to debt, like credit card debt. Ok, how many of you tried your best to instill this into your children, your friends, and family members -- to please, please not repeat your mistakes but learn from them. Ok, how many learned vs. how many went right on and made all the same mistakes you did. Now, I hope you see my point.

  • Indicators are not the answer.
  • Indicators are not the solution.
  • Indicators are not the holy grail.
  • Indicators are not the reason you lose money.
  • Indicators are not the reason you make money.
  • Indicators are not why you got stopped out.
  • Indicators are not why you hit your target.
  • Indicators are not what told you to enter a trade.
  • Indicators are not what told you to exit a trade.
  • Indicators are not the answer.
Don't believe me? Disagree with me? No problem. Trading is not being right or wrong. Trading is about developing your own method, your own "system". And more than anything else, trading is about knowing yourself.

So if indicators are not all of these things, then what is?

  • You are the answer.
  • You are the solution.
  • You are the holy grail.
  • You are the reason you lose money.
  • You are the reason you make money.
  • You are why you got stopped out.
  • You are why you hit your target.
  • You are what told you to enter a trade.
  • You are what told you to exit a trade.
  • You are the answer.
Does this make sense to you? Does it kind of make sense? Does it make no sense at all? Do you believe it, do you question it? Are you having an "ah-ha!" moment, are you cursing my name?

The point I am trying to reveal to you is that you are controlling what is happening, not an indicator.

Are indicators valuable? Do I use indicators? Do professional floor traders who make millions of dollars a day use indicators? Yes. But the indicators are being used only as a small supplement to you -- your mind -- and that is what is so difficult to learn. Indicators can be useful, but only when used in the right context and by the right person with the right experience.

If you are questioning whether or not you are the right person with the right experience to be able to use indicators to help your trading, and not hurt it -- then the answer is no, you aren't. You will know it when you are. It will be one of the greatest moments of your entire trading career when you realize this, everything will change, everything will be so clear.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/
Follow me on Twitter Visit my Facebook Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 9 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on futures io?
I have segregated my investment and trading
Psychology and Money Management
3x Fangdango
Traders Hideout
Thinkscript for scanning in Option Hacker
ThinkOrSwim
Contract-adjusted volume composite in Sierra
Sierra Chart
The Better Line Break Charts works in Ninjatrader 8 ?
NinjaTrader
 
 
(login for full post details)
  #2 (permalink)
KANATA,ON Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Mirus,Zen-Fire
Trading: Currencies
 
sukhsan's Avatar
 
Posts: 106 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 93 given, 71 received

Mike Thanks for the the advice
I am 100% agree with you



SSS

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #3 (permalink)
Neubrandenburg, Germany
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: R
Trading: Stocks
 
wh's Avatar
 
Posts: 538 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 298 given, 503 received


i believe

50 % Mind / Psych.
30 % MoneyManagement
20 % Indicators / PriceAction / Watching

WH

You need no indicator, you can trade blank. What you need???

3 Charts small, med, big ... to see where the market goes ...

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #4 (permalink)
Neubrandenburg, Germany
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: R
Trading: Stocks
 
wh's Avatar
 
Posts: 538 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 298 given, 503 received

here is an example ... for scalping pips, trend trading or else

i learned at the beginning without indicators, but find they useful for scalping ... and now i like they or
would they marry for some pips, why ???

trading systems move the markets ... on any logic

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot - 06.07.2009 , 12_04_04_reg001.png
Views:	249
Size:	15.3 KB
ID:	570  
Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #5 (permalink)
MIAMI,FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Private
Trading: Zn,6E,6J
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,060 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 624 given, 3,901 received

i think that YOU have to learn what the indicator is tellin YOU and i think YOU have to learn what the chart is telling YOU,i know some traders that can trade with a blank chart and i know some traders that need indicators but both parties have to know what they are looking at and how to read and interprit what they see...sharky

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #6 (permalink)
London
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader, multicharts, MT4
Broker: IB, PFG Best
Trading: 6E, EMD, TF
 
Posts: 258 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 110 given, 152 received

I agree with you 100%. In the past 7 years i have spent thousands of hard earned dollars on all kind of trading books and systems. I have had charts that looked liked they should be in an art gallery. I kept jumping from one to the other thinking they were no good. Then I made a discovery that it wern't all those systems that were the problem.

IT WAS ME .

Since then I have been working on my mind using meditation. My charts are now much cleaner and I dont get a headache looking at them. My trading has improved and i dont have to think too much.

To anyone about to go and purchase that holy grail , I would say take that money and invest in some self improvement method that will help you discover yourself. You will save yourself a fortune.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to yiman for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #7 (permalink)
Lisbon
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus Futures / Zen-fire
Trading: Es
 
FredyMegaG's Avatar
 
Posts: 59 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 19 given, 44 received

I agree, I have been confronted with the fact that, since the market is always changing, indicators will only work to a certain point, after which theyll become obsolete, and traders will need to change or review all their systems from scratch..

Price action, on the other hand, is allways there.

There are always double tops, breakouts, trendlines, etc..

I believe indicators are very useful to spot divergence and trend strenght.
But that price action will ultimately give us the purest confirmation our analysis.

So we should pay more atention to price action and look for certain points that alert us to what we should do.

I love this aproach, but then again i have to thank to indicators to alert us to a trend loosing strenght, to prevent us from a bad trade...

Are there any threads regarding this? I mean in a practical aproach?
I have been reading maney psychology and money management threads as well as some "indicators are not the answer", but all with very theoretical points of view of why it should work...

Isnt there any thread that we can discuss techniques, alerts and our personal discoveries?

Im thinking about starting this thread but i didnt want to be repeating if it already existed (to maintain order in the forum, and not fill it with unecessary threads...)

best regards,
Fredy

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to FredyMegaG for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #8 (permalink)
Plano, TX
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Broker: MB
 
Posts: 9 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 1 given, 36 received

The legendary trader Joe Ross would agree with you. I own two of his best books, Trading by the Minute and and Trading by the Book. A pure price-action guy. Loads of examples and he walks you through tons of trades, bar by bar. Books were $150 each, but great chart reading stuff.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to hotdog for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #9 (permalink)
Seattle
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader Interactive Brokers
Trading: 6B
 
Posts: 225 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 135 given, 270 received


FredyMegaG View Post
I agree, I have been confronted with the fact that, since the market is always changing, indicators will only work to a certain point, after which theyll become obsolete, and traders will need to change or review all their systems from scratch..

Price action, on the other hand, is allways there.

There are always double tops, breakouts, trendlines, etc..

I believe indicators are very useful to spot divergence and trend strenght.
But that price action will ultimately give us the purest confirmation our analysis.

So we should pay more atention to price action and look for certain points that alert us to what we should do.

I love this aproach, but then again i have to thank to indicators to alert us to a trend loosing strenght, to prevent us from a bad trade...

Are there any threads regarding this? I mean in a practical aproach?
I have been reading maney psychology and money management threads as well as some "indicators are not the answer", but all with very theoretical points of view of why it should work...

Isnt there any thread that we can discuss techniques, alerts and our personal discoveries?

Im thinking about starting this thread but i didnt want to be repeating if it already existed (to maintain order in the forum, and not fill it with unecessary threads...)

best regards,
Fredy

Fredy,

Check out and . Both threads discuss price action based trading.

Blz

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #10 (permalink)
Lisbon
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus Futures / Zen-fire
Trading: Es
 
FredyMegaG's Avatar
 
Posts: 59 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 19 given, 44 received


Thanks for the advice Blz!
Is "Trading the Ross Hook", the same Joe Ross that Hotdog recommended?

WELL, 27 page threads youve advised! heh gonna get my reading going!

Fredy

Reply With Quote


futures io Trading Community Psychology and Money Management > Indicators are not the answer


January 18, 2010


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

An Afternoon With futures io member TropicalTrader

Elite only
     



Copyright © 2020 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts