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How do I not take losses personally?
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How do I not take losses personally?

  #51 (permalink)
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teamtc247 View Post
You know that's good you have 3.5 years in. I wouldn't put a time limit on your trading. Trading isn't something you just get and you're done. You're always learning new things fine tuning your skills and working through your emotions. You might want to do a deep dive in to why you're doing the things you're doing. Address the reason why your not pulling the trigger. What I have found is it's me not my methods.

How many different strategies or methods did you try until you have gotten to where you're at? If you were messing around with 10 different strategies over the last 3.5 years how long did you stick with each one and your current methods?
Good trades are what you're going for. The by product of good trades is a reward "money." Focus on good trades and you'll be set.

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I've never been one of those guys who jumped from method to method. Mine has simply "evolved" over the last 3.5 years from all the studying and market time I've spent. It's never been more concise than it is now. My charts are nice and clean, not cluttered. Quite frankly I still sit in awe sometimes at what I've accomplished. At this stage, I feel I should being experiencing no hesitation whatsoever.

But that's where the trading for income part plays into this. I recently decided to look for other work to provide steady income in order to take the pressure off my trades for a while. But like I said, I still wonder if that's an actual solution or just delaying things because I clearly have yet to to fully accept the risk involved in this. If I did, then I would just trade and not "think" so much. All the psychological things which hold me back are real, but at the end of the day they amount to nothing but excuses ..... especially if I want to trade for a living for the rest of my life.


Last edited by Rock Sexton; January 25th, 2014 at 03:08 AM.
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  #52 (permalink)
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Rock Sexton View Post
I've never been one of those guys who jumped from method to method. Mine has simply "evolved" over the last 3.5 years from all the studying and market time I've spent. It's never been more concise than it is now. My charts are nice and clean, not cluttered. Quite frankly I still sit in awe sometimes at what I've accomplished. At this stage, I feel I should being experiencing no hesitation whatsoever.

But that's where the trading for income part plays into this. I recently decided to look for other work to provide steady income in order to take the pressure off my trades for a while. But like I said, I still wonder if that's an actual solution or just delaying things because I clearly have yet to to fully accept the risk involved in this. If I did, then I would just trade and not "think" so much. All the psychological things which hold me back are real, but at the end of the day they amount to nothing but excuses ..... especially if I want to trade for a living for the rest of my life.


The only thing that holds us back is our minds. Trading PA and SR levels is actually quite simple. Emotions
make it difficult.

Fear is a choice.

You must tune out the world on each trade.

This means =

Oh, shit.. I really need this one to run... Mortgage is almost due.
Man, I blew that last one .... now I"m gun shy
Oh, Jeez... I feel depressed and not sure of myself today, What the hell did I get myself into.
I have no idea where this market is going.
I feel like I want to sleep for a thousand years....

Every trade is an unknown
You must get comfortable with being uncomfortable
You must dismiss everything prior to the trade you are currently on - EVERYTHING
If you cut you losers short and let the winners run and scale in, it will all work out in the end.


Trading has strengthened my mind exponentially.
Trading has taught me to control my emotions. Something I have needed all my life.

Thank God, the markets were opened to the masses electronically.
The only thing standing between failure and massive success, is your own mind.

Isn't that what being in America is all about?

Embrace the dream ..
Live the dream


AJ
Nashville, Tennessee


"Life On The Edge of SR"
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  #53 (permalink)
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Rock Sexton View Post
I've never been one of those guys who jumped from method to method. Mine has simply "evolved" over the last 3.5 years from all the studying and market time I've spent. It's never been more concise than it is now. My charts are nice and clean, not cluttered. Quite frankly I still sit in awe sometimes at what I've accomplished. At this stage, I feel I should being experiencing no hesitation whatsoever.

But that's where the trading for income part plays into this. I recently decided to look for other work to provide steady income in order to take the pressure off my trades for a while. But like I said, I still wonder if that's an actual solution or just delaying things because I clearly have yet to to fully accept the risk involved in this. If I did, then I would just trade and not "think" so much. All the psychological things which hold me back are real, but at the end of the day they amount to nothing but excuses ..... especially if I want to trade for a living for the rest of my life.

Just to to touch back on the whole SIM idea. This is something that my first mentor was very adamant about. He started trading in mid to late 20's. He would go back SIM every time he started thinking about the money or when his confidence needed a boost. He mentioned he went back and forth SIM quite a bit. One of his stories he shared with me about loss, he just had a winner of 25k in options. The next day he thought he could repeat his results and he lost over 75k, after that he was out in the parking lot blowing chunks. He's now a pro and has been trading full time for over 7 years not including his initial part time trading, probably 5 when he started. I would say he has to be in his late 30's. He is the most aggressive trader I know. So I'm not sure if that's your ego talking saying if I go back SIM I'm XYZ. Some work through trading quicker than others and some take years to work through their issues.

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  #54 (permalink)
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Rock Sexton View Post
I've never been one of those guys who jumped from method to method. Mine has simply "evolved" over the last 3.5 years from all the studying and market time I've spent. It's never been more concise than it is now. My charts are nice and clean, not cluttered. Quite frankly I still sit in awe sometimes at what I've accomplished. At this stage, I feel I should being experiencing no hesitation whatsoever.

But that's where the trading for income part plays into this. I recently decided to look for other work to provide steady income in order to take the pressure off my trades for a while. But like I said, I still wonder if that's an actual solution or just delaying things because I clearly have yet to to fully accept the risk involved in this. If I did, then I would just trade and not "think" so much. All the psychological things which hold me back are real, but at the end of the day they amount to nothing but excuses ..... especially if I want to trade for a living for the rest of my life.

Hi Rock, I just wanted to follow back up on my previous post after thinking about it this morning. To me the situation your are describing is fear. It's fear of being wrong and the fear of loss. My two cents, you're most likely not taking the trade because you're trying to avoid emotional pain if the trade doesn't work in your favor. Again, I would challenge you to put the thought of money aside, go back SIM and build up your confidence seeing that you can do it and then go back to cash. What's the worst thing that can happen? Not being any closer to your X dream or not losing X? Treat cash like SIM. Try to change your view point of money. Many traders have this thinking about if you don't have any skin in the game you won't learn. I don't believe this to be true. I see how this view point is developed, it's because most people aren't as disiplined when they/re SIM. They take trades that they wouldn't have ever taken in cash(undisiplined), thinking about the money. The only thing I can say about cash that is different is if you're not neutral with your emotions it hurts more when you lose (emotional pain) and feels great when you win (euphoria). 3.5 or 20 don't put a time limit on it. Set personal development goals for yourself. Big Mike mentioned something to me about 6 months ago, chose 1-3 things and work on it and grade your self(not money goals) whether this is pulling the trigger or not moving your targert. Donad Trump wasn't succesful overnight, look his story up. You're still developing into the trader you want to be. Happy trading, buddy.

"Small disciplines repeated with consistency every day lead to great achievements gained slowly over time."
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  #55 (permalink)
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teamtc247 View Post
Hi Rock, I just wanted to follow back up on my previous post after thinking about it this morning. To me the situation your are describing is fear. It's fear of being wrong and the fear of loss. My two cents, you're most likely not taking the trade because you're trying to avoid emotional pain if the trade doesn't work in your favor. Again, I would challenge you to put the thought of money aside, go back SIM and build up your confidence seeing that you can do it and then go back to cash. What's the worst thing that can happen? Not being any closer to your X dream or not losing X? Treat cash like SIM. Try to change your view point of money. Many traders have this thinking about if you don't have any skin in the game you won't learn. I don't believe this to be true. I see how this view point is developed, it's because most people aren't as disiplined when they/re SIM. They take trades that they wouldn't have ever taken in cash(undisiplined), thinking about the money. The only thing I can say about cash that is different is if you're not neutral with your emotions it hurts more when you lose (emotional pain) and feels great when you win (euphoria). 3.5 or 20 don't put a time limit on it. Set personal development goals for yourself. Big Mike mentioned something to me about 6 months ago, chose 1-3 things and work on it and grade your self(not money goals) whether this is pulling the trigger or not moving your targert. Donad Trump wasn't succesful overnight, look his story up. You're still developing into the trader you want to be. Happy trading, buddy.

My main issues are fear of losing and fear of being wrong. I have gotten pretty good at reading the market in context long term and intraday. Often I will "see" what happens before it does(like returning to a level for an entry) but i haven't been able to pull the trigger consistently and I've been full time doing this for about a year.

Even in SIM I'll exit a winner too soon, move my stop to breakeven too soon, or just close the trade manually.

This mental challenge is very frustrating!

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  #56 (permalink)
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RickW00716 View Post
This mental challenge is very frustrating!

You're telling me.

It's the most frustrating thing I've ever experienced.

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  #57 (permalink)
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You Run The Casino

Rick:

I can completely relate to similar issues but have been trying something new. It's reduced the anxiety dramatically and i think puts me in a better state of mind for trading. I'm not 100% yet, but it's a start.

It started with a sentence from Douglas' book, TZ. "The best traders use the same thinking strategy as the casino ..."

I figure that I'm running a miniature casino--one roulette wheel. When i see one of my trades setting up i open the roulette wheel for action. If it gets triggered that means that enough punters showed up to take a spin. Then, as the bars wiggle back and forth between my stop and target, i imagine the wheel spinning. I'm a casino owner, standing watching the roulette wheel go until conclusion. Overtime, the casino owner knows that he has an edge and will make money on that wheel. He makes sure that the wheel is true and keeps constant check on that. Other than that, he stands back and watches it spin. Imagine Andy Garcia in a tux, hands behind his back surveying the roulette room.

I can do that when i believe enough in my system that i have an edge in the market. I'm working on a new system in SIM right now. In SIM, when i get nervous, i can tell myself that i'm just 'testing out the wheel'. Once i'm sure of the edge this particular wheel has, then i'll run it for real.

That change of viewpoint, with very visual images (I watch a quick video of a roulette wheel spinning every morning), reinforces the right thinking strategy for me.

Regards,

Ray

"You have to make the choice in life, be a gambler or a croupier and then live with your decision come what may."-- Jack Manfred (Clive Owen), Croupier
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  #58 (permalink)
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rainman1 View Post
Rick:

I can completely relate to similar issues but have been trying something new. It's reduced the anxiety dramatically and i think puts me in a better state of mind for trading. I'm not 100% yet, but it's a start.

It started with a sentence from Douglas' book, TZ. "The best traders use the same thinking strategy as the casino ..."

I figure that I'm running a miniature casino--one roulette wheel. When i see one of my trades setting up i open the roulette wheel for action. If it gets triggered that means that enough punters showed up to take a spin. Then, as the bars wiggle back and forth between my stop and target, i imagine the wheel spinning. I'm a casino owner, standing watching the roulette wheel go until conclusion. Overtime, the casino owner knows that he has an edge and will make money on that wheel. He makes sure that the wheel is true and keeps constant check on that. Other than that, he stands back and watches it spin. Imagine Andy Garcia in a tux, hands behind his back surveying the roulette room.

I can do that when i believe enough in my system that i have an edge in the market. I'm working on a new system in SIM right now. In SIM, when i get nervous, i can tell myself that i'm just 'testing out the wheel'. Once i'm sure of the edge this particular wheel has, then i'll run it for real.

That change of viewpoint, with very visual images (I watch a quick video of a roulette wheel spinning every morning), reinforces the right thinking strategy for me.

Regards,

Ray

Thank you. I may actually give this a try

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  #59 (permalink)
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I love the roulette wheel gag! A perfect distraction


Aj

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AJ
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  #60 (permalink)
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Taking something personally is a social emotion. Not only is the criticism or judgment directed at YOU, but it logically originates with another PERSON. There are valid, powerful evolutionary reasons why doing something embarrassing or incompetent in front of others elicits a shame response in us -- it lowers our social status. But remember: human minds do all kinds of dumb things, and one of them is to react as if PEOPLE are watching, when really no one is there. Some psych researchers call this the Spotlight Effect.

Please notice that it is irrational to assume that an abstraction (the market) notices you and judges you. I don't mean this insultingly, but really it's quite arrogant to think that the market would pay enough attention to you to think badly of you for making a losing trade (if the market were capable of such things, which we've already established it is not).

It's quite freeing to meditate on how tiny and insignificant we and our mistakes actually are. It's also quite freeing to meditate on the reality that no one notices or cares about our trading outcomes -- ideally, the "don't care" mentality should extend to ourselves as well -- at least this is what works for me.

If I want a trade to work, it nearly always fails. If I need a trade to work, it is doomed. If I enter a trade with a mindset of detached curiosity, I have a much better chance of success.

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