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How do I stop getting in my own way?
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Created: by Rock Sexton Attachments:0

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How do I stop getting in my own way?

  #21 (permalink)
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@kevinkdog I totally agree emotional issues can still be a problem even in automating. I think for me automating retrained my brain and helped me get through my issues. When I first automated I wanted to intervene and did at times but overtime I no longer feel that urge. May not work that way for everyone but was a trading lifesaver for me.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #22 (permalink)
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liquidcci View Post
@kevinkdog I totally agree emotional issues can still be a problem even in automating. I think for me automating retrained my brain and helped me get through my issues. When I first automated I wanted to intervene and did at times but overtime I no longer feel that urge. May not work that way for everyone but was a trading lifesaver for me.

I had the same issue - the need to intervene, even with an automated approach.

One way I got over it was that I started trading multiple strategies. Then, it becomes a huge challenge to intervene - which strats are on, which are off, which did you alter the entry, which did you alter the exit, etc. Kind of like lying to different people - you lose track of what you told to whom, and it gets you into even more trouble than just telling the truth.

It becomes so confusing after a while that is becomes mentally easier to just follow the systems!

If you have any questions please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
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  #23 (permalink)
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kevinkdog View Post
I had the same issue - the need to intervene, even with an automated approach.

One way I got over it was that I started trading multiple strategies. Then, it becomes a huge challenge to intervene - which strats are on, which are off, which did you alter the entry, which did you alter the exit, etc. Kind of like lying to different people - you lose track of what you told to whom, and it gets you into even more trouble than just telling the truth.

It becomes so confusing after a while that is becomes mentally easier to just follow the systems!

@kevinkdog that is kind of where I am as well. I have so many things auto now it would be impossible to do what I do without automaton. No way my brain could keep up with all that is going on further reducing my chance to intervene.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #24 (permalink)
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My advice is to try the "set it and forget it" mentality. It works for me, try to see if it works for you.

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  #25 (permalink)
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Rock Sexton View Post
I respectfully disagree with the "belief" factor. If I didn't beleive at some level, I would've completely walked away from this endeavor. .... ...

Rock, great thread.

I suggest you carry on as you are and simply add 20 minutes a day of meditation to get inside your head and 'see' these beliefs you dismiss.

Seriously. I believe you are on top of your system Ok and just need to 'talk to yourself' to fix issues. As someone else said above, you already know what to do. Just cannot do it, right?!

Here's a Really Good Mindfulness Book to help.

Richard
Hong Kong
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  #26 (permalink)
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Rock Sexton View Post

In total, I've been at this for about 4 years now. The first 1.5 years were losses. The next 1.5 years was profitable, but still had to work really hard for it (lots of little wins). This last year is when I've significantly increased profitability and I'm taking substantially less trades. I've gone from conducting almost 35-40 trades a month to no more than 7/month over the last 6 months. The "core" emphasis of my system from when I started is still there, but the mechanisms have evolved as time has gone on.

Look if what you're saying here is true and that you've been profitable for the last year than you need to be proud and stop beating yourself up. Every trader can make more money, but you've already proven to yourself for the last few years that you've become progressively more profitable. Unless you've recently gone into a significant drawdown I think these problems are momentary to say the least.

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  #27 (permalink)
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kevinkdog View Post
That is a great idea.

The only caveat I have is that if there are deep down emotional/psychological issues, they will still show up with automated trading, just in a different form. Some people think automated = emotionless, and that is not true. It can still be emotional.

I think that the number of people who are emotionless are few and far between. I am one of those people who
had a deep psychological issue and didn't know it. But I kept doing the same dumb things - promising I would never
do it again then once in a while it would surface again. Once I got through it I realized that unless someone has led the perfect life - Never regretted anything they had done they will be likely working against these issues in the market.

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  #28 (permalink)
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Itchymoku View Post
Look if what you're saying here is true and that you've been profitable for the last year than you need to be proud and stop beating yourself up. Every trader can make more money, but you've already proven to yourself for the last few years that you've become progressively more profitable. Unless you've recently gone into a significant drawdown I think these problems are momentary to say the least.

Well keep in mind I've been working with a much larger capital base within the past year. That is what has also helped me become more profitable.

All I know is, I come from a background where there was never any monetary excess and I was always in a state of "just getting by". This mindset often boils over into my trading and triggers some of those moments of premature selling.


Last edited by Rock Sexton; December 18th, 2013 at 12:07 AM.
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  #29 (permalink)
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One more thing I think I really need to acknowledge when it comes to who am as a person.

I have an over-active mind. It literally never stops thinking. The worse part of that is I have battled anxiety since I was about 18, non-medicated too. I am definitely more anxious in the morning upon rising then I am later on in the day.

I know I'm not making a good case for the mentality of a top-notch trader ...... but honestly that was a part of the allure. The analysis aspect of it was right up my alley, so was studying behavior (in this case market participants). Yet, the biggest challenge posed was to overcome my anxieties and to also learn how to manage and take risks. In the time I've been doing this, it's been a process attempting to re-wire the way my mind works.

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Rock Sexton View Post
One more thing I think I really need to acknowledge when it comes to who am as a person.

I have an over-active mind. It literally never stops thinking. The worse part of that is I have battled anxiety since I was about 18, non-medicated too. I am definitely more anxious in the morning upon rising then I am later on in the day.

I know I'm not making a good case for the mentality of a top-notch trader ...... but honestly that was a part of the allure. The analysis aspect of it was right up my alley, so was studying behavior (in this case market participants). Yet, the biggest challenge posed was to overcome my anxieties and to also learn how to manage and take risks. In the time I've been doing this, it's been a process attempting to re-wire the way my mind works.

I started trading because it was an activity that an anti social person like myself could excel at without human intervention. later on I realized that I enjoy being social with other traders because we're usually like minded people.

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