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self coach trading
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self coach trading

  #161 (permalink)
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thanks cloudy


Cloudy View Post
from the sound of it you may not have an edge working right now. I found that one can use up a lot of time with no real edge. Also simming should be done so one can consistently garner statistics of profit factor at least 1.5 to 2.0 or greater for a month , or months or more before going back to live trading. Also did your live losses exceed 40% of your account in the last two months? If this is the case, then from a professional plan I had learned, one should stop trading live for at least 3 months.

True, this can go one for years. Maybe "losing time" not making profits while "others", the 5% profitable make profits. But considering, there are those who made profits 10 years ago, and 20 years ago and decades ago to the 19th century. For myself I can never catch up to them because I'm a dumb person and slow learner for one, and I've only only started trying this trading endeavor 6 to 7 years ago. And not really daytrading attempts until 5 years ago.

( And I worry everyday, the retail market will be banned or outlawed in a very short time. So even this avenue
what the rest of the populace critically think of as nothing other than "legalized gambling". (which I agree it's gambling with all it's guilt-inducing implied vice. It isn't "real work". But then again today we have proportionally some of the lowest wage deflation since the robber baron times. unless one is a gov't worker and can vote themselves raises through taxes like in California... That's why I wish to make trading a stable part-time stream of income for myself while still making "peanuts" in the "regular" work world many are now forced to do so in this collapsing world economy).
But in the end it may not matter. If the markets collapse, the whole world is going down together and the post office will stop delivering mail (already in bankruptcy/furlows etc., unheard of). And we may be better off all learning how to grow our own survival farms in the end in the near future. But what can we do, there is nothing we can do short of bloody revolution and future world wars. )


The following is just my opinion. It may or may not be a good suggestion. Stay off live trading for 3 months after a 40% loss. Regroup. Maybe try one of the vendor "schools". Maybe try CJBooth's mentorship. There are a bunch of them out there. Also try elitetrader reviews. As futures.io (formerly BMT) vendor review list doesn't seem to cover a bunch out there.
i think following a vendor method with at least a 40% to 50% chance while learning money management of losers and also managing winners is the best shot of succeeding. Since 95% of vendor "schools/products" are scams (similar to 95% of retailers lose coincidentally) it may behoove you to take advantage of review resources and find a list of vendor schools that have the least signs of being a sim fraudulent babbling presentation and an ad organization for endless subscriptions and endlessly new and revised indicators and strategies).

There's also a few free method shared generously on futures.io (formerly BMT). For example JDNeeman's alpha trading method thread. The method looks to me very similar to CJBooth's and some of Woodie's. Well setups can be the same entry, i.e. a "setup by any other name". Surprised that institutional HTF/algo trading with their size hasn't moved some of those setups out of profitability already. Well the 6E has been devastated since two years ago imo. Maybe CL is next. Good luck Alejo.

it looks good your advice to stop live trading, thing i did not do , and lost a lot of money(i say i feed all the money to these almost 2yrs trial, i left the mark of 40% well behind)but a lot of people told me that and i continue, maybe thinking, yes now i got it, or sometimes saying, ok, i gamble this to recoup all...

but how can i learn to deal with me without trading live?
it s like a circle

later i was doing some live test i called combi , it is similar to combine, and i play with equivalent to have 25k and max dd of 1000, (before i made a bigger 100k dd3000, but the problem is when i reach the max dd, i passed it, the last tardes are the worst, i think maybe when i was near the max dd, stop before to drill it)then i can limit the digging the hole, but anyway , i can lose so quickly a bunch of money

respect the find a vendor, i say radically not at all

i am believe (and a lot of adv traders said this) that i need to trying my self to find something that work for me.
i d rather prefer trying to find an advanced trader that wants, and can guide me, in the process to find my path, sometimes one can be near the right path and you never know that, and in others you can go away from path and you also do not know.
there s infinite posibilties but not all you can try, but between scalop or not, between markets, or between so or si, maybe are less, in any paossibilty i guess exist profitable traders
what i need to do, in any path to be profitable?what is my easier path?
why i see almost in each trade one can be profitable if did something, exit or stay, or reverse?
and all depends on me
holding loser
not hold winner
hesitate
impacient
and more
how improve that?

and really look simple, you see the trend, you enter, you add ,you wait and you exit.
but when you try live it is different

thank you for your time and your help

alejo

La lucha es de igual a igual contra uno mismo
The fight is fair against oneself
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  #162 (permalink)
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Hi , your welcome Alejo. And thanks for your frank thoughts. I feel the same way on trades too as I'm sure
most everyone else struggling.

I guess one way to do it sim, is to treat it like live. Try to stick to the rules on money management on sim.
And if you mess up and try to "recoup" the losses with more leverage than maybe make a note of it like in a diary. Then you know you're not ready to go back to live if you're still breaking the "live" rules even in sim. Sim should be simming live trading like a flight simulator, or a simulator of a science experiment. I also heard it said from a host of a trading room that "trading losses" are the cost of doing business. Like every real business has overhead costs. Most new small businesses fail, because their overall cost per unit subtracted from gross profit per unit, doesn't make it over into a positive gross margin per unit etc. So maybe thinking of losses as overhead cost, one can accept a losing day. Only when the losing day becomes 5 days a week and the trading account hits -40% then one realizes it's time to stop and regroup and practice another method, other strategies etc.

Also about previous losses. I know they all say it, but never use extra leverage to try to make it all back up. The chances are really a crap shoot or a roulette wheel. Like they say, if one wants to gamble all their money in one fell swoop maybe one spin on the roulette wheel is ok, but knowing it's all done after it's over, so it would be no more trading if one lost. If one was already a billionaire, sure maybe betting ten thousand at a time on a roulette wheel maybe one's way of "rule-based" "gambling". But with a small account it's better to stick to trading with the usual old adages of never risking more than 2% of one's account etc. per session. (I had read some news story of some billionaire's son who lost tens (hundreds?) of millions gambling in Las Vegas. The poor out of control, directionless soul ended up suing the casinos who always served him up as a VIP trying to make it easy for him to gamble big as much as possible!)

Also if your losses in trading are hurting and too big, it may be ok to take an extended break from trading and just read up or just stick to sim while following a coaching method from a good mentor or coach who can help one deal with trading losses and the psychology behind it. Maybe a break even more than a half year to help the sting from the trading losses fade. I had to do that myself...

Well, just my 2c, I'm sure there are others who can far better explain it. The best I can say is that I empathize and hope my words help in some understanding way.

You may have seen me posting this before. Big Mike posted it while back. it helped me some to gain a better perspective...

FuturesTrader71 | Trader Analysis 2011-09-01


Last edited by Cloudy; March 17th, 2014 at 08:40 AM.
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  #163 (permalink)
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alejo View Post
there s infinite posibilties but not all you can try, but between scalop or not, between markets, or between so or si, maybe are less, in any paossibilty i guess exist profitable traders
what i need to do, in any path to be profitable?what is my easier path?
why i see almost in each trade one can be profitable if did something, exit or stay, or reverse?
and all depends on me
holding loser
not hold winner
hesitate
impacient
and more
how improve that?

and really look simple, you see the trend, you enter, you add ,you wait and you exit.
but when you try live it is different

thank you for your time and your help

alejo

Regarding what you wrote above which I forgot to address. I found out that if a method doesn't address those questions, it isn't complete. So one should spend time also learning stop and trade management. But it's ok I think to learn one method and use another method's or one's own learned way to manage the trade and targets and stops.
For example, one could stick to 15 tick profits, taking half off at 7 ticks etc. And stick to 15 ticks even if the market continues on. Then finding setups which on stop-out of a failed trade has a good chance of a reverse win making back some or all of the initial loss. As for "messy setups" on a trade entry I think the only way to learn to enter or not on a messy setup is just a lot of practice. As most setups are never clear cut as initially taught or shown on a "perfect" chart especially from a vendor who doesn't trade for real. There are other ways to gauge targets, such as using a stop curve indicator, or using fib extensions etc. Like they all say, to learn to stick to one method with one set of stop and trade management entries and exits etc. As for sim vs. live, as above I mentioned treat sim as live. So when live stick to the same. If you have well defined and practiced rules for both stops and entries, and targets in the sim, then live will be far easier to duplicate the sim behavior. I blew a small account I was testing down to 60% last year testing a new method so I quit that method and went back to sim. At least I accepted each loss and did not add or break the stop rules. And the account was small enough that the 40% loss did not hurt too bad. yes, i didn't test it sim enough; i was too eager to go live with it that time...

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  #164 (permalink)
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thanks cloudy


Cloudy View Post
Hi , your welcome Alejo. And thanks for your frank thoughts. I feel the same way on trades too as I'm sure
most everyone else struggling.

I guess one way to do it sim, is to treat it like live. Try to stick to the rules on money management on sim.
And if you mess up and try to "recoup" the losses with more leverage than maybe make a note of it like in a diary. Then you know you're not ready to go back to live if you're still breaking the "live" rules even in sim. Sim should be simming live trading like a flight simulator, or a simulator of a science experiment. I also heard it said from a host of a trading room that "trading losses" are the cost of doing business. Like every real business has overhead costs. Most new small businesses fail, because their overall cost per unit subtracted from gross profit per unit, doesn't make it over into a positive gross margin per unit etc. So maybe thinking of losses as overhead cost, one can accept a losing day. Only when the losing day becomes 5 days a week and the trading account hits -40% then one realizes it's time to stop and regroup and practice another method, other strategies etc.

Also about previous losses. I know they all say it, but never use extra leverage to try to make it all back up. The chances are really a crap shoot or a roulette wheel. Like they say, if one wants to gamble all their money in one fell swoop maybe one spin on the roulette wheel is ok, but knowing it's all done after it's over, so it would be no more trading if one lost. If one was already a billionaire, sure maybe betting ten thousand at a time on a roulette wheel maybe one's way of "rule-based" "gambling". But with a small account it's better to stick to trading with the usual old adages of never risking more than 2% of one's account etc. per session. (I had read some news story of some billionaire's son who lost tens (hundreds?) of millions gambling in Las Vegas. The poor out of control, directionless soul ended up suing the casinos who always served him up as a VIP trying to make it easy for him to gamble big as much as possible!)

Also if your losses in trading are hurting and too big, it may be ok to take an extended break from trading and just read up or just stick to sim while following a coaching method from a good mentor or coach who can help one deal with trading losses and the psychology behind it. Maybe a break even more than a half year to help the sting from the trading losses fade. I had to do that myself...

Well, just my 2c, I'm sure there are others who can far better explain it. The best I can say is that I empathize and hope my words help in some understanding way.

You may have seen me posting this before. Big Mike posted it while back. it helped me some to gain a better perspective...

FuturesTrader71 | Trader Analysis 2011-09-01

i will watch it in deep, isee a couple of minutes and the gay went for 100-20-33-1, i have a record 55-64-0;5-10-0;2.5-0.3,5-.7,15-17-6,

opt1)maybe could be, go to sim, get expert there (with a lot of confidence)and then go live
or m6e and
a)repeat and got resilience in live anb done
b)mind take over sim rules and invest more in live (continue donating)

opt2)invest more in live and (continue donating)
a)someday stop b)got it and reach the goal

the function between amount donated versus how close my skills are to reach the goal are better in opt1 or opt2?

thanks

alejo

La lucha es de igual a igual contra uno mismo
The fight is fair against oneself

Last edited by alejo; March 17th, 2014 at 09:44 AM.
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  #165 (permalink)
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Hi Alejo, just myself I would go with option 1. Then see if I could get profit factor average 1.5 to 2.0 or greater
after testing 20 or so trading days in sim following rules. Thanks.

Here's an interesting link on elitetrader:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74408&perpage=6&pagenumber=1/

it's "ok" if the big losses are within small 1-5% of a big account, but I don't think it's ever good from too high leverage causing the loss.


Last edited by Cloudy; March 17th, 2014 at 12:38 PM.
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  #166 (permalink)
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and now what?

watching the market without trading is not the thing i like more
the temptetion to trade is enormous
but for what ?
if i know the result will not be ok, with the skills i have now
but it is hard to admit it.
i have the open position on 6e short on TS yet (from the last day of fail combi), maybe that let me participate in some way

i rejected applying and studying all new stuff because i believe the problem is not there, the problem is insight of me when applying anything.

if i jump to look another thing out there, it looks like the problem is the tool, and not me.

but trying to do the same ,again , and repeat, it, can change the things?

suddenly i find my self reading bmt in search of a strategy to learm trust and apply (with the hypothesis, that the things i try to do is the problem) but is this the case?

some of you saying, maybe you do not know an edge ...

but what is true, is i do not trust in what i am doing., or i am trying to do


as I have the 6e open position , I find a 6e trader to discuss that.
and I find bpm14
@wldman thread, and I planning to go deep with what he is doing, and try to learn that and see if i am able to execute that, and i can apply it with m6e, minimizing risk while i learning that

while i was looking for the indi , i find tons of info from @Fat Tails and interesting charts /indi with pivots, levels ,vwap, /indi dily range, daily noise, that i think could be helpful to be aware
also fattails provide a lot of useful info to trade

then it open the door to tons of new info, but, is this new info usefull for get the goal?
i think not
because all reduce to if i am able to execute them

again in a circle, vicious circle or virtuous circle?

now i remember that @Bacon said to me,
find something in bmt, testing, practicing, only choose one setup,...,plan, rules, you need to trust in it

he was right, thanks

then if i have failed with the previous plan, now go ahead, with this

i was asking help, for an advanced trader to help in this process, like a trainner, coach,or something like that
to avoid i wide spread my effort and i lose the path

selfcoach it looks it is not enough
it is easy to get lost

La lucha es de igual a igual contra uno mismo
The fight is fair against oneself
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  #167 (permalink)
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Cloudy View Post
Hi Alejo, just myself I would go with option 1. Then see if I could get profit factor average 1.5 to 2.0 or greater
after testing 20 or so trading days in sim following rules. Thanks.

Here's an interesting link on elitetrader:
What is the worst one day loss you ever had? - Elite Trader

it's "ok" if the big losses are within small 1-5% of a big account, but I don't think it's ever good from too high leverage causing the loss.

interesting commnets
thanks

alejo

La lucha es de igual a igual contra uno mismo
The fight is fair against oneself
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  #168 (permalink)
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I think you have found your own answer in the previous post you posted:

watching the market without trading is not the thing i like more
the temptation to trade is enormous
but for what ?

I think you are over trading, just think about the fact that some markets only give you about 3-6 trades a day!

I have offered you free education, so what are you waiting for?

Trading is not reading a book and after you have read the book you think you can trade!

You have to spend hours in front of your monitor, sim trading, looking at mistakes and only trade real money when you have proven to yourself that you are profitable.

Trading is hard working, it is like a F1 pilot.

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  #169 (permalink)
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ok, we go ahead with the education


jsengxx2 View Post
I think you have found your own answer in the previous post you posted:

watching the market without trading is not the thing i like more
the temptation to trade is enormous
but for what ?

I think you are over trading, just think about the fact that some markets only give you about 3-6 trades a day!

I have offered you free education, so what are you waiting for?

Trading is not reading a book and after you have read the book you think you can trade!

You have to spend hours in front of your monitor, sim trading, looking at mistakes and only trade real money when you have proven to yourself that you are profitable.

Trading is hard working, it is like a F1 pilot.

thanks joao,
we can start , i think it is so much easy to see the others´s problem from outside than from inside
you know my situation and main issues based on my journals
what are your first guidelines?

La lucha es de igual a igual contra uno mismo
The fight is fair against oneself
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  #170 (permalink)
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trainning


i was reading, info, watching videos, trainning , analizing market, price action, according the joao instructions
i close the euro open trade, after the lucky push from fomc and i could not avoid to trade cl short after the big retracement and this morning i saw a selling pressure from there.
i try to let it down after the condition change, difficult to do it.

La lucha es de igual a igual contra uno mismo
The fight is fair against oneself
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