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requesting advice on how to repair my psychology
Started:June 12th, 2013 (10:09 AM) by Black Wolf Views / Replies:1,569 / 19
Last Reply:December 16th, 2013 (01:40 AM) Attachments:0

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requesting advice on how to repair my psychology

Old June 14th, 2013, 04:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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In reply to the original post. BlackWolf, I know I'm just generalizing, but I'm guessing it's more the system in that it may not be complete yet as an incomplete trading system may generate too much uncertainty and inconsistency. Maybe more trade management rules are needed when things don't work out or learning to stay out of the market when the price action isn't great or just sticking to the few best entries when you realize the price action isn't optimal but you still want to make trades. Just my 2c.

As for lawyers and the military. I still consider them useful and essential contributors to society when used in a positive and ethical way. I know of relatives and work and classmates who went on to law school and then went on to work for various law firms and various sub-specialties of the law field, and not just as hired corporate stooges. Agreed that politics and lack of regulation has brought out the more negative aspects in the current day.

Still a conundrum to me about retail trading as most as usual don't think it contributes anything substantial to society. Could make a case that it takes away from the labor force, but then again corporations have all but offshored all the jobs they can to the global "job"/slave market, and there is much less demand for "middle class" employees by employers, and government of all levels constantly bemoans the lack of taxable citizenry, as a result, to offset their drunk spending and pensions. So it's a strange time..

Last edited by Cloudy; June 14th, 2013 at 05:02 PM.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 02:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Black Wolf View Post
Any advice would be helpful....

Well, I can't claim to be a success at trading yet but I am making money more than losing it, but it sounds to me like like you already know how to do this. You just need to convince yourself that you do.

There is a tag line for one of the posters here, I think it was someone calling themselves Fadi, their motto said:

"Once you know that you know, confidence replaces fear."

I can't say any more than that.

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Old June 25th, 2013, 05:26 AM   #13 (permalink)
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it happens.....just accept that you can have losing days, weeks and big deal!

that's why you need money saved up for living at least a year or 2 comfortably.....not the end of the world....

black swans happen.....accept them and move on to the next trade....

if you're not up to trade, go do something else.

why lose your money, become more unhappy and angry, then beat yourself up after, when you could have gone on a mini-vacation and done something that brings you joy....

which makes you more money?

trading from greed or contentment?
trading from joy or fear?

sometimes you need to get away from everyday distractions to let your mind recover

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Old June 26th, 2013, 06:09 AM   #14 (permalink)
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artemiso View Post
I don't see your argument here. True, the $400-$1200/h figure is for a partner at a large firm, not an associate. But first year work is always going to be miserable. The same can be said of first year analysts and associates at investment banks and prop trading firms. Yet first year associates will always be better paid and have better quality-of-living than first year retail speculators. I rarely make such generalizations unless I have strong evidence for the claim.

TST is a game simulation, from what I see, that charges you a nonrefundable deposit for each time you fail. This is a claw crane machine - yes, you get to trade someone else's money (win a soft toy) if you pass (catch the toy), but the arcade/house/firm always wins. I don't think it's fair to pay money for such a game. Moreover, the rules don't make you a better trader - they mostly suggest that you take large sigma exposure at the start, and if you get lucky, taper off your position to pass the game. It's the optimal strategy to win the game; I don't think it involves skill. I doubt I'd pass it either.

The problem is that the people who run TST are not incentivized to make you a better trader with the terms that they're giving you. If they actually had a clause that they paid you $2,000 if you followed the rules that they wrote down for you for 4 attempts, but you still failed, then they would actually make it a decent training program.

I totally agree with this. If you consider their combine objectives, the initial balance they start you with is basically BS since your max draw down is tiny compared to the overall value. So basically your trading an over leveraged small account ranging from 5% to 3% of the total account value, it actually goes down as your "initial balance" goes up. Not only that but the amount of return you require on that amount increases exponentially starting at a 1:1 on their 30k to like 3.5:1 return for their 150k. From what I have read, if you continue to live fully funded the daily loss limit becomes a weekly loss limit. So now your even more over leveraged as they are basically reducing your trading/ chance to execute your edge by 80%. Or its going to take you 80% longer to dig yourself out of a hole as you just wait until the next week and reset that count. Either way if you're failing the several combines you probably could have "learned" as much with that much in your own account trading e-minis or micro Forex.

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Old June 28th, 2013, 01:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Black Wolf View Post

I'm trying to figure out how to get my swagger back, and how to trust myself again. Incidentally, after the $600 loss today, I switched to simulator after taking a break and am up over $1000.

So issues are how do you or I and anyone that is a trader, get passed a horrible losing streak, and I think I've done that once already; and how does a trader manage themselves when it comes to meeting goals and maintaing focus once they do meet the goals. I'm tired I tripping at the finish line. Any advice would be helpful....

I think the issue is much more than "getting over a losing streak" or "tripping at the finish line."

First, do you want to be a full time trader and make a living from trading?

Second, have you ever traded risking your own money in the account?

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Old December 1st, 2013, 01:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I haven't been on the forum in a while, and have had some success on repairing my psychology. I saw psychologist and dealt with some issues, but also figured out that I was more lucky than good when I had my previous success. I will be a full time trader, and I have used my own money to trade a live account before.

I've discovered that I need to have more faith in the process and more importantly, accept the risk I take when I make the trade and just leave it alone.

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Old December 1st, 2013, 07:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Cure for erractic trading

Have a trading plan. Including the hours you will trade.

Follow the trading plan.

Become thoroughly familiar with your platform.

Losses are part of the cost of doing business.

and Remember: It's not about being right it's about making money!

Modify what you do by back testing or on the simulator.

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Old December 1st, 2013, 10:52 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Black Wolf View Post
I've discovered that I need to have more faith in the process and more importantly, accept the risk I take when I make the trade and just leave it alone.

I think that's pretty much it.

You need a good trading method, but there are hundreds of those. You need to follow the method as you have tested it. Have a procedure in place to control your losses (do not change your stop, maybe quit for the day when your losses reach x amount, etc.). If you don't have good results, debug your method or your decisions and repeat. There you go. (Yes, it's easier said than done.)

The psychological aspect is, do it right according to your procedures and then don't worry about outcomes (while you're trading.)

Good luck with your trading.


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Old December 2nd, 2013, 03:50 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Black Wolf View Post
I haven't been on the forum in a while, and have had some success on repairing my psychology. I saw psychologist and dealt with some issues, but also figured out that I was more lucky than good when I had my previous success. I will be a full time trader, and I have used my own money to trade a live account before.

I've discovered that I need to have more faith in the process and more importantly, accept the risk I take when I make the trade and just leave it alone.

Thats positive news. One thing that helped me is to not let losing streaks change my self esteem/self confidence, dont let your trading performance interfere with your self worth. You are right to focus on the process and not the end results. This is the way pro sports people are able to stay calm and ficussed through a long tournament otherwise the pressure in the final stages would be unbearable.

To me it sounds like you are able to pick good entries, entries that can make you long term profitable and it is the final mental proving and hardening that you need to develop.


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Old December 16th, 2013, 01:40 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Black Wolf View Post
I'm in Law School, but don't really want to be a lawyer. Its a nice back-up plan in case trading doesn't work out.

Watch this commencement speech by Steve Jobs;

This is a brilliant speech because he went to university and dropped out since he knew it really wasn't what he wanted to do and he knew that many of the people listening to his speech that day would be people who having completed their course, deep down do not really want to pursue it as a career.

Black Wolf View Post
On this last combine, I have been mindful of risk management and my entries. I've been trading fairly mechanically. Something is still missing. I've been keeping a cognitive journal and the issue I seem to have is that when I get to or near my goal I get cocky or lazy, or greed trys to drive me over the finish line. I was up over $3000 on Friday morning having traded 7 days and hitting a high water mark of $1440 net. I figured I would have a nice easy time of reaching the finish. I was down that day, and down on Monday, Tuesday and down again today, losing an average of $600 dollars. So I haven't had draw down, but I'm pretty much back to where I started.

Define your edge. What is it? If you looked back over 6 months of charts could you mark out all the trades that you would have taken based on your strategy? Is it really clear cut such that it would be easy for you to do this? If you did this and then worked out what your stats were (eg win/loss ratio, average winning trade, average losing trade), how confident would you be of replicating the performance in real time?

If you have to create a business plan where you outlined your strategy in detail, with a view to getting funding, how confident are you that it would be solid enough to get funding?

I'm not asking you to answer these questions here publicly (unless you want to), but to answer them to yourself.

I read a book a couple of years ago that made a big impact on me;

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One of the insights from this book is that if you are pursuing what is your authentic will, that is if you are doing work that you are suited to, it does not feel like work, and time flies while you are doing it.

It sounds like artemiso owns his own law firm, which is great. Being your own boss is a primary driver for me to be successful in trading, whereas if you work for someone else it may not always work out, despite how hard you work you are putting your destiny into other people's hands.

I don't know much about TST but do wonder how many traders they have on their books that are fully funded.

"The primary thing required to obtain what you want from life, is simply the will to pursue it, and the faith to believe it is possible." - Author Unknown

"The ability to maintain discipline and stick to the rules is the hallmark of the experienced successful trader" - Curtis Faith

Last edited by PositiveDeviant; December 16th, 2013 at 01:50 AM.
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