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Time to Give Up
Started:March 27th, 2013 (04:47 PM) by Big Mike Views / Replies:55,830 / 414
Last Reply:October 21st, 2016 (12:21 AM) Attachments:3

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Time to Give Up

Old May 4th, 2013, 10:57 PM   #81 (permalink)
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I would recommend that folks in this boat get with some successful traders, sit at their feet, watch and learn. So much blah blah on this thread, you ain't rich enough to trade, you ain't smart enough, you ain't cut out for it, etc, etc...
Fact is that it's a job requiring complex decision making. If you wanted to be an eye surgeon would you write your own textbook while you were learning... only if you are a complete idiot. Not to say it can't be done, I'm still trying. Experience and knowledge are the keys to success in this business. You can't rush it or force it, but you can step back, appreciate it, and develop a plan on how best to acquire the skills and knowledge you do not have. Find a pro who will take you under their wing. Otherwise, be prepared for a battle of endless frustrations and illusions as you learn what it is you don't know, which is more than you currently know..... I went all in, and that's that... Risk i tell ya''''

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Old May 16th, 2013, 03:58 PM   #82 (permalink)
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The day I drew the line in the sand..

The day I drew the line in the sand I said to myself.... I'VE LEFT BETTER PAYING JOBS THAN THIS!!"

From that moment forward my mission was to simplify trading by backing myself off that line one inch per day (i.e. simplifying things).

simplifying doesn't mean I wanted this to be easier. It meant that I needed to focus on the work that mattered most (Ray Burchett) and be honest with myself about this and that.. forget about the level of 'work' that others are putting in and TRUST that I am doing the work that aligns with MY PURPOSE IN TRADING.

---Point is: Search your feelings --- and FYI - my trading (and entire view on trading) changed dramatically. that 'line in the sand' is almost out of view. I trade from a place of strength and confidence. I do plenty of work. Some folks might call it plain vanilla stuff. But it's working.

It all began once I drew that line in the sand.

dante

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Old May 16th, 2013, 04:06 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Xav1029 View Post
This paragraph touched on something that has caused a lot of doubt in my trading journey, so I'll put it out there to get some feedback. Even though I have never had any gambling issues, I am an addict to the core. I am very proud to say I have been sober close to 7 years now and my life has done a complete 180, however sometimes when I get excited in a trade (winning or losing trade) the switch will go off an I will make some inexplicable decisions that remind me of the state of mind I would go into when I was still active. I am naturally undisciplined, selfish, egotistical and have a high threshold for "pain". I have been able to change all of these in my daily life, but when it comes to trading, all these traits still come up with full force.

So, would this put me in the "Time to Give Up" category?

When we enter trading, we think the things we fixed in our daily lives will transfer seamlessly into trading but they don't. We need to absolutely love that fact! It gives us a whole new challenge and ability.

"In life they say the grass is green. In trading..THE GRASS DOESN'T EXIST" - random trading educator.

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Old May 16th, 2013, 08:23 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Time To keep going?

This is a great thread.

I think a lot of the reasons that have been mentioned as reasons to give up, are in fact fixable. Just a generalized list of what I noticed: Money management, psychology, lack of trading strategy, lack of family / spouse support, lack of capitalization, the "need to make money" syndrome, etc... I don't think intrinsically most people are not cut out to do it. I think they just work themselves to death in ways that don't actually address the core issues or run out of time/ money before they find a workable solution. But lets use myself as an example. Its always best to start with what you know.

I feel like giving up sometimes, I have psychological tantrums with myself due to the stresses of developing myself as a trader. Assuming that I can even make it since there are so many barriers. Do I fit into the time to quit mode? Is there a point where its like, its stupid to quit you have come to far? Or you're going in the right direction? For me I hate quitting, I never want to give up. But I don't want to be walking down the wrong road for months/years either. Working hard in the wrong direction gets you nowhere fast, which is what i think happens to a lot of other newbie traders out there.

So my question becomes, we know the faults/problems/hurdles, how does an aspiring trader overcome them?

Others have so the problems are not insurmountable, just difficult so there must be some solution. The very simple things I have come up with are, written out trading plan with risk management section, journaling, being honest with yourself and others about your trading, and understanding psychology can be a problem and know when to pull your own plug. I have no idea if these are the right things. But its what I have been doing, I hope its the right path.

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Old June 3rd, 2013, 01:11 PM   #85 (permalink)
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I turned a Sizable Account into a sizable Debt selling Naked Puts prior to Sept 11, 2001.
I was shell shocked at the -275K Margin Call week and a half later; it took the 4 previous years + to build that precious account....... and then nothing but a silent black hole.
That was pretty much rock bottom, with an obligation that I wanted to run from but I couldn't...All that "success"
and the professional relationships I built, the Trust, the Pride....Just turned vacant. But I wanted it back like that smeagol and his prrrecious.
I borrowed 325K, paid the call, and spent the next 4+ months scalping futures and currencies like a smeagol... then hit rock bottom again, emotionally, and physically strung out like guttered junkie. It was over...Out...Scratch
Still -75K net I slithered away, couldn't push the buttons no more, it had become an unreal reality.
The next day I went back to rebuilding my life; it took the next 4 years to clear the last 75K, the old fashioned way, every day making less than a scalp, and losing a hell of a lot more sweat.
What did I have to lose....Everything...Bottom Out and Upside Down
What did I gain? what I lacked the most........ PERSPECTIVE.... I had to "SEE thru" the Damn BS that I was either ignoring or worse deluding myself with.

Hey Peter,
Did you change strategies from options to futures after the margin call? Are you still trading today? Amazing story by the way.
Thanks!

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Old June 20th, 2013, 03:15 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Keep your day job

I think the single most important thing anyone who wants to trade must do is keep their day job to be sure their bills are paid for. Unfortunately, it seems that when it comes to trading, most people are focused on the very short term, and that requires them to be in front of the computer all day long. In other words, they have to give up their day job, or work a night job so they can trade during the day. This is completely unrealistic.

Keep your day job and learn to be profitable with longer term strategies before considering trading full time.

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Old June 20th, 2013, 11:29 PM   #87 (permalink)
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there's always managed accounts

then there's returning to what still works, just without all the glitz and glitter

then there's attending one of the Trading Expo conferences and seeing which vendor's products suits your temperament, pocket, risk tolerance, time available to devote / trade / be in front of your computer...

ohh, haven't spent the time to quantify those things, then start there,
already got those answers, then consider, simplistic equity strategies, ETF trading (search on ETF websites), option trading, bond funds (high yield, tax frees, etc.)

just because the fast paced world of the ICE/CME doesn't suit your temperament, doesn't mean the game is over, unless you're out.....

just a reality check...

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Old June 27th, 2013, 09:32 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I get a lot of emails and PM's from people seeking advice. Usually they've been losing money and don't really know what to do next. But I received a particular letter recently that made me want to write this post.

What are some of the characteristics of people who are losing money:

- No plan
- No way to measure themselves (they just focus on net profit)
- No consistent method, jumping from one trading room or indicator to the other
- Unrealistic expectations
- Unwilling to do the work required
- Not in a position in their life to make trading a priority

Such a great post @Big Mike.

If I could pick one as the most important I would choose "Not in a position in their life to make trading a priority."

This is a two-part characteristic, first part is getting in that position (financially, emotionally, and with family) and then the next part is actually MAKING trading a priority... Working hard every day to get at least one step closer to your goal. If one wants to achieve something in life, and especially something as demanding as trading, one must FIGHT every day to even have a shot at achieving that goal.

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Old June 28th, 2013, 06:45 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Reality

The cold facts is that most of us reading this post should call it quits. Why?, 90% of traders fail. OK, who knows if that the right %, even if it is only 70% of traders that fail, still the fact would be that Mos of us should quit now... speaking statistically.

There are many good replies on this thread about how to determine if one is on the right path (having a trading plan, trading journal, a consistent trading method, etc), and should STICK to trading.

However, the facts remain the facts, and most people should save the effort and $$$$ and find other occupation or hobby. Yet another fact is that MOST of us, wont really call it quits until the "pain of losing money" is greater than the "hope of making it"

Hector

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Old June 28th, 2013, 03:00 PM   #90 (permalink)
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hectormas View Post
The cold facts is that most of us reading this post should call it quits. Why?, 90% of traders fail. OK, who knows if that the right %, even if it is only 70% of traders that fail, still the fact would be that Mos of us should quit now... speaking statistically.

There are many good replies on this thread about how to determine if one is on the right path (having a trading plan, trading journal, a consistent trading method, etc), and should STICK to trading.

However, the facts remain the facts, and most people should save the effort and $$$$ and find other occupation or hobby. Yet another fact is that MOST of us, wont really call it quits until the "pain of losing money" is greater than the "hope of making it"

Hector

The good thing is, there are at minimum two very distinct groups on futures.io (formerly BMT). Those that spend all their time searching for the holy grail -- they are always in the vendor threads, always looking for a new mentor, a new educator, a new indicator, a new system, a new trading room to show them how to be a better trader.

Then there are those who are journaling about their trading every day, have laid out their trading plan, are posting their trades, and are reviewing themselves for strengths and weaknesses on an ongoing basis, and therefore improving themselves on an ongoing basis without "searching" externally for the answer.

So there is hope

Mike

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