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Time to Give Up
Started:March 27th, 2013 (04:47 PM) by Big Mike Views / Replies:55,833 / 414
Last Reply:October 21st, 2016 (12:21 AM) Attachments:3

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Time to Give Up

Old April 15th, 2013, 08:59 AM   #61 (permalink)
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i have to admit that i did not read the entire thread yet, but i am impressed by the postings.

for what it is worth, here are my 2 cents:
I have stopped trading last fall after trading for 2 years. i was never really profitable, and my time (= capital to support myself) was running out. i did not lose a ton of money, as i was a break even trader most of the time. with more time i may have made the transition to be a profitable trader, but i will never find out. i am now back in my old field of work and making a decent living.

i do not consider this time lost because i have learned so much. i am more aware of my own thinking, the things we give attention to, i have developed a more objective way of thinking, emotions no longer play a role in important decisions. almost surgical - which freaks me out sometimes. but i am a better person now, i like myself more.

i think i will never fully quit trading, currently i am exploring automated trading again. but i now know the full implications of what it means to trade and so i am taking it really slow.

so in my case trading, and then stopping trading was one of the best things to date and has helped me evolve and shape my character.

It really does not have to be negative.

"I don't even see the code anymore. I just see blonde, brunette, redhead..." -Cipher, The Matrix
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Old April 16th, 2013, 12:41 AM   #62 (permalink)
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I think it is...

I never really thought the day would come that I thought it would be time to give up, but it seems like that is where I am at.

I think @Big Mike was eluding to the fact that maybe trading isn't for me. I think trading is for me, but I'm not for trading. The unfortunate thing about trading is that you either need to be really good at, or have enough money to get good at it. If you don't get good at then you still have enough money to live.

I was considering another TST combine with the thought that "this time" it would be different. I will actually succeed in the combine and get funded. But I'm not sure why that would happen. Why would things be any different this time than they have been for the last 8 years. I took their Intuitive Development training last week. One of the first things we were to do is create a trader profile. In other words, state who we are as a trader. I'm not even sure I can do that. I've been exposed to so many things over the years that I don't even know who or what I am as a trader. I don't think it's a good idea to try and incorporate all one has been exposed to. I find myself counting waves as in Elliott and I don't even like EW. I find myself trying to find tops and bottoms via VSA. A little knowledge is dangerous. I try and use the Wyckoff principles, but tend to always be looking for the reversal. Sure, there may be a reversal, but it may only be short lived.

I think the simplicity of what @VinceVirgil does is really the way to go. Just a price chart, a moving average and trend lines. That method can be employed on his 800 tick chart or an 8 hour chart, or whatever, but all the other stuff seems to just get in the way. When i say simplicity I mean in the chart set up not the execution.

futures.io (formerly BMT) is a great place for Traders. I wish everyone much success.

David_R

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Old April 16th, 2013, 01:20 AM   #63 (permalink)
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David my intention was to get you to evaluate some of your preconceived notions not to discourage you.

I think for any struggling trader, which is a lot of people, you need to rethink what you are doing from time to time.

I often take the tough love approach when people ask me for help yet have shown no commitment of their own. You have shown a lot of commitment so don't fall into that group but at the end of the day I do feel like you almost feel like trading is not something you deserve to achieve.

Most people have completely unrealistic expectations and frankly have no business trading. The impact to their family being a big reason. Trading is not for everyone. The few that take it seriously seem to over complicate things to the point that my head spins with some of the stuff and charts people post for reasons to take a trade.

If you trade, keep it simple, take fewer trades for more gains over longer periods of time, and spend most of your time evaluating your strengths and weaknesses, not entries on a chart.

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Old April 16th, 2013, 01:22 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Last thing - futures.io (formerly BMT) is a place to find support but never forget the market will eat you alive if you present as many vulnerabilities and second guessing as you mentioned in your last post

Sent from my Nexus 4

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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Old April 16th, 2013, 04:38 AM   #65 (permalink)
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David_R View Post
I never really thought the day would come that I thought it would be time to give up, but it seems like that is where I am at.

I think @Big Mike was eluding to the fact that maybe trading isn't for me. I think trading is for me, but I'm not for trading. The unfortunate thing about trading is that you either need to be really good at, or have enough money to get good at it. If you don't get good at then you still have enough money to live.

There are barriers to entry - same as for almost any job as far as I know. If one is driven for profit reasons, I wouldn't go into finance in today's market. Pick one job and be good at it.

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Old April 16th, 2013, 04:50 PM   #66 (permalink)
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David_R View Post
I never really thought the day would come that I thought it would be time to give up, but it seems like that is where I am at.

I think @Big Mike was eluding to the fact that maybe trading isn't for me. I think trading is for me, but I'm not for trading. The unfortunate thing about trading is that you either need to be really good at, or have enough money to get good at it. If you don't get good at then you still have enough money to live.

I was considering another TST combine with the thought that "this time" it would be different. I will actually succeed in the combine and get funded. But I'm not sure why that would happen. Why would things be any different this time than they have been for the last 8 years. I took their Intuitive Development training last week. One of the first things we were to do is create a trader profile. In other words, state who we are as a trader. I'm not even sure I can do that. I've been exposed to so many things over the years that I don't even know who or what I am as a trader. I don't think it's a good idea to try and incorporate all one has been exposed to. I find myself counting waves as in Elliott and I don't even like EW. I find myself trying to find tops and bottoms via VSA. A little knowledge is dangerous. I try and use the Wyckoff principles, but tend to always be looking for the reversal. Sure, there may be a reversal, but it may only be short lived.

I think the simplicity of what @VinceVirgil does is really the way to go. Just a price chart, a moving average and trend lines. That method can be employed on his 800 tick chart or an 8 hour chart, or whatever, but all the other stuff seems to just get in the way. When i say simplicity I mean in the chart set up not the execution.

futures.io (formerly BMT) is a great place for Traders. I wish everyone much success.

David_R

David, I feel your pain and understand reasons, but I think you have another option if you adore trading so much but don't have time to trade futures intra day and capital to swing. Check out Forex trading. Most successful people that I know who trade Forex are trading from 4 hour or daily charts, i.e. requiring very very little time trading on daily basis. Some trade from weekly. And you need not to have a large amount of capital as you can trade fractional lots, with a little as 10 cents per tick. If you are interested I will privately recommend you a resource/community dedicated to Forex where I started 4 years ago still going strong with mostly same user base. I have no interest there but it is a genuine resource that can possibly provide you with a way out for your trading aspirations and lack of time. Most of people there are part-time traders having daily jobs and trading 30 minutes a day or so. Don't give up.

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Old April 16th, 2013, 05:01 PM   #67 (permalink)
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@David_R I gave up on trading one time and it was the best thing I ever did. It allowed me to pursue other things and start a successful business that I have in addition to trading to this day. A savvy tough NYC friend of mine taught me to always have many irons in the fire. Why have a sole source of income when you can have many?

Giving up allowed me to later come back to it with the correct mindset and some much needed wisdom. It is very hard when things are not working and spiraling down to approach trading the right way. So don't be afraid to leave it. Does not mean you have failed. You may move on and never come back or you may come back to trading and things finally click.



David_R View Post
I never really thought the day would come that I thought it would be time to give up, but it seems like that is where I am at.

I think @Big Mike was eluding to the fact that maybe trading isn't for me. I think trading is for me, but I'm not for trading. The unfortunate thing about trading is that you either need to be really good at, or have enough money to get good at it. If you don't get good at then you still have enough money to live.

I was considering another TST combine with the thought that "this time" it would be different. I will actually succeed in the combine and get funded. But I'm not sure why that would happen. Why would things be any different this time than they have been for the last 8 years. I took their Intuitive Development training last week. One of the first things we were to do is create a trader profile. In other words, state who we are as a trader. I'm not even sure I can do that. I've been exposed to so many things over the years that I don't even know who or what I am as a trader. I don't think it's a good idea to try and incorporate all one has been exposed to. I find myself counting waves as in Elliott and I don't even like EW. I find myself trying to find tops and bottoms via VSA. A little knowledge is dangerous. I try and use the Wyckoff principles, but tend to always be looking for the reversal. Sure, there may be a reversal, but it may only be short lived.

I think the simplicity of what @VinceVirgil does is really the way to go. Just a price chart, a moving average and trend lines. That method can be employed on his 800 tick chart or an 8 hour chart, or whatever, but all the other stuff seems to just get in the way. When i say simplicity I mean in the chart set up not the execution.

futures.io (formerly BMT) is a great place for Traders. I wish everyone much success.

David_R


"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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Old April 19th, 2013, 05:01 PM   #68 (permalink)
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it crossed my mind to quit about 10 months or so back .As a beginner i had read a lot and followed a few blogs and thought i had a clue , pretty soon i lost 60% of my stash, i tried a few indicators and ideas but i never really had a system , i didnt keep a journal even though i acknowledged to myself it would make me accountable, partially the reason i didnt keep the journal and didnt stay on sim(stupidly) was i keep chopping and changing thinking this was a better way and that indicator was a better way. i should have done more research and found something that worked for me and tested the crap out of it.
After losing 60% ( i originally said 50%) i knew this was going nowhere fast, so i went onto sim. I was lost or overwhelmed- there are so many indicators & systems, opinions and ideas that as a beginner, its hard to drill down to the truth or what works.
For me i am interested in trading as its a challenge, there is great learning and of course the psychology of self improvement. I have learnt a lot in the last year since then- i have moved my trading into more price action and understanding the overall market flow a bit more and where Smart money might be trading from. i have my indicator chart also for confirmation but dont relay on it and im happier now. i know i have something that works well on probability, if it hits my stop - well you can't win them all- just try to make the winners count. I'm going to take a sim account and double it 3 times in a row before going back live. i have doubled the first and im on the second time - so far so good. i know this doesnt guarantee i'll make it as a trader but im gonna give it some fight! i still need to work more on the psychology more and read Dr Brett Steenbarger again.


"But I will tell you something curious: A stock speculator sometimes makes mistakes and knows that he is making them. And after he makes them he will ask himself why he made them; and after thinking over it cold-bloodedly a long time after the pain of punishment is over he may learn how he came to make them, and when, and at what particular point of his trade; but not why. And then he simply calls himself names and lets it go at that."REMINISCENCES OF A STOCK OPERATOR

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Old April 30th, 2013, 03:33 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Why did I start this thread?

Because after receiving a few thousand of these PM's and emails over the years, I want to scream sometimes... trading is not for everyone. Especially the guys ruining their life with trading. These guys are gamblers, not traders, and they are wrecking their life, their wife's life, their kids life not just in the monetary sense but also with their time and how it affects them and how that carries over into their personal life. Is it worth it?

I do not subscribe to the philosophy that anyone can learn to be a good trader. I am more realistic, and that everyone's life situation (prior to trading) is unique, not everyone can truly be in a good position to start a trading career and on top of that, not everyone has the personality traits required to be a good trader.

There are exceptions to every rule, and as I said before in my first post, if you aren't a "fighter" who has the thinking of simply making happen what you want to happen, then you really don't stand a chance.

Frequency of these emails continues to increase, which could be because of the popularity of the forum or could be because markets are getting harder to trade. But a common trait between emails is lack of accountability or responsibility. Everyone wants me to tell them where to enter, where to exit, or who to follow in order to be profitable.

Mike

As unfortunate as some of the stories may be it almost sounds like some sort of subconscious psychological attempt to transfer guilt/responsibility - everyone's situation is entirely their own responsibilty - the risk warnings are there for a reason when you open an account.

How about a couple of additional lines in your signature such as "Search on the forum if you want a place to vent your emotions re bad trades, help trading etc," and then have a standard reply that you send to anyone that contravenes this .

"The primary thing required to obtain what you want from life, is simply the will to pursue it, and the faith to believe it is possible." - Author Unknown

"The ability to maintain discipline and stick to the rules is the hallmark of the experienced successful trader" - Curtis Faith

Last edited by PositiveDeviant; April 30th, 2013 at 04:41 PM.
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Old April 30th, 2013, 04:24 PM   #70 (permalink)
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patricknevergaveup


This is the name of my journal. It would be a lie to say I never thought about it.
The question @Big Mike asked was when does a guy give up?
Ironically, the answer is as broad as the answer to the question of What is the best trading system out there?
I cannot tell you that.
Self discovery is the name of this game.

If you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always gotten.
Celebrate because you executed your edge. Not because you won.
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