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Time to Give Up
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Time to Give Up

  #41 (permalink)
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Xav1029 View Post
This paragraph touched on something that has caused a lot of doubt in my trading journey, so I'll put it out there to get some feedback. Even though I have never had any gambling issues, I am an addict to the core. I am very proud to say I have been sober close to 7 years now and my life has done a complete 180, however sometimes when I get excited in a trade (winning or losing trade) the switch will go off an I will make some inexplicable decisions that remind me of the state of mind I would go into when I was still active. I am naturally undisciplined, selfish, egotistical and have a high threshold for "pain". I have been able to change all of these in my daily life, but when it comes to trading, all these traits still come up with full force.

So, would this put me in the "Time to Give Up" category?

I don't think so, you seem to have a strong understanding of your shortcomings, and with a good understanding comes a very good chance of being able to either overcome or circumvent the problem. Maybe you would be better suited for automated trading?

"If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong."
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  #42 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
So the point of this thread is not to talk about really any of that but instead to talk about when it is time to give up, or simply to move on.

In fact, a lot of times my advice to these guys is to move on. Stop trading. Let's be real, if you are undercapitalized, unwilling to do the real work, and have no support from your family -- you aren't in a position to be a good trader.

But I also have to be honest, some times when I tell someone to stop trading, what I am really wanting them to do is come back and tell me NO, they will not stop, they are going to make it work. I mean if you really want this, then fight for it. But as I've said countless times before -- willpower alone is not enough to make you profitable.

Mike

Mike, fantastic topic for discussion. You bring up many good points for thought. I can only add that one must have an absolute passion for trading to have a chance. Once a trader realizes it is going to take actually work, and this isn't simply taking candy from a baby, they better be willing to put in a ton of work and persevere.

I think most go about it wrong but risking they're own capital while they are learning. I know I did. Traders need to be truly profitable on SIM, without cheating, bending the rules, and allowing for slippage. This is before they even think about trading a live account.

In fact, I would recommend new traders, struggling traders, and underfunded traders to go with a partner such as Topstep Trader. They will enforce discipline, and provide the capital to prove yourself. Given that option, not having capital is not a reason to quite trading, or to not even get started.

When should a trader quit. IMHO, only a trader can answer that. But given the what it takes to make it as a trader, I'm temped to say that if someone would quit, they wouldn't have made it anyway.

Here's a link that outlines the development of a trader. Since I'm not yet at the end, I can't say if it is entirely accurate, but it seems pretty good to me.

38 Steps to Becoming a Successful Trader

Plan your trade, trade your plan.
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  #43 (permalink)
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Brewer20 View Post
When should a trader quit. IMHO, only a trader can answer that. But given the what it takes to make it as a trader, I'm temped to say that if someone would quit, they wouldn't have made it anyway.

My thoughts also.

20,000,000
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  #44 (permalink)
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Great Discussion. I think many people come into trading assuming anyone can do it and it is a path to easy money. For us who have been down the path we know it is one of the hardest things to succeed at doing.

I think there is a time where a person has to get honest and determine of trading or any profession for that matter fits. Trading is not for everyone just like being an MD is not for everyone. Personally I love to trade which is what enabled me to go through the rigorous process of self reflection, devastation, exhilaration that accompanies the learning curve. You can acquire through time trading knowledge that can help you make money but if you don't wake up everyday and look forward to trading then find something you do.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #45 (permalink)
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The replies so far, remind me of the time I tried to teach my sister to change the oil on her car.

Within a very short period of time I came to the conclusion that she should probably never change the oil on any car.

It was a very definitive, clear, logical decision on my part. She did not possess the necessary skills and learning them would be highly unlikely.

I told her just take your car to a place and pay them to do it for you.

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  #46 (permalink)
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Xav1029 View Post
This paragraph touched on something that has caused a lot of doubt in my trading journey, so I'll put it out there to get some feedback. Even though I have never had any gambling issues, I am an addict to the core. I am very proud to say I have been sober close to 7 years now and my life has done a complete 180, however sometimes when I get excited in a trade (winning or losing trade) the switch will go off an I will make some inexplicable decisions that remind me of the state of mind I would go into when I was still active. I am naturally undisciplined, selfish, egotistical and have a high threshold for "pain". I have been able to change all of these in my daily life, but when it comes to trading, all these traits still come up with full force.

So, would this put me in the "Time to Give Up" category?

Well, as @Brewer20 said, I think only the trader (you) can answer that question.
But I can't say "yes" due to your obviously high and trained level of self reflection. Although having a disposition to addiction, or however to put it, might be a disadvantage, being able to overcome such an addiction might just as well count as an advantage, partially or fully offsetting the other...or maybe even outweighing it, again only you can answer that.
And by the way, my hat goes off to you!
What I rather meant with my original comment was specificly a person with a disposition for gambling, active addiction or not.

It is said that war brings out the worst in a person, I think trading does too, although in a vastly different way.

Vvhg

P.S. I don't think that selfishness and egoism are as such undesirable in respect to becoming a successful trader
When it comes to trading I am pretty selfish too.

Vvhg

Hic Rhodos, hic salta.
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  #47 (permalink)
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Brewer20 View Post

...

But given the what it takes to make it as a trader, I'm temped to say that if someone would quit, they wouldn't have made it anyway.

...


I don't understand the logic here... Isn't that exactly the reason, why traders who should quit because they do not have a chance to succeed, keep on trying endlessly? Their (unconscious) logic being: "If I quit, I admit that I could not make it in this game, I'm a failure, etc. Hence, I continue."

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  #48 (permalink)
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karoshiman View Post
I don't understand the logic here... Isn't that exactly the reason, why traders who should quit because they do not have a chance to succeed, keep on trying endlessly? Their (unconscious) logic being: "If I quit, I admit that I could not make it in this game, I'm a failure, etc. Hence, I continue."

I'm not at all saying the opposite of my statement is true. I don't believe that if someone never quits, then they will eventually be successful.

Plan your trade, trade your plan.
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  #49 (permalink)
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Brewer20 View Post
I'm not at all saying the opposite of my statement is true. I don't believe that if someone never quits, then they will eventually be successful.

You guarantee failure once you quit.

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  #50 (permalink)
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