I think it's a must to give up on something that doesn't work. The only thing I look, if my financial state becomes bigger/lesser and that is the only true gauge for me. I don't see any results when I'm trading intraday, but I see the results when I swing-trade on daily bars in the equity market.
It is no secret for anyone that in trading comes only poor people who seek the way out of the rat race and poverty as myself. And for me, it's only about money. Yeah, yeah if I'm trading only because of money I'll go broke etc. and bla bla bla someone can say. Though I see results and don't give a shit.
Trading itself is simple as the rag. I have my production method and I'm executing it and nothing more and I don't feel absolutely anything in doing it. Of course, you can't grow your capital forever because of liquidity limitations.
In the end, I think if someone does not see any financial results let's say at max in 2 years of time, it's the must to give up on active trading and become more of an investor.
For money-making, there are still other opportunities like: to become a streamer of some shit, porn, adventure trips, etc...
Better is not to limit yourself only to one thing: I think true traders not only trading the markets lol.
They are investing in property+land, conduct legal/illegal businesses in real life, different online projects.
And at some point, the market itself for them becomes more like a "pension", as the earnings from more stable activities cover all their needs.
The following user says Thank You to SomePsychoDude for this post:
I just signed onto membership in futures.io. I heard of this forum many years ago but never bothered to check it out. But now, I'm a member and catching up to the current "state-of-the-art" in trading, from shortest term to longest term. I've been out of trading the markets for income about 20 years. I was a member of the CBOT, CBOE, PCX, and a few other exchanges before I punched out for the 20 years.
The reason why I left the business back then was I saw the slow creeping influence of computerized trading impinging on pit scalping and options mark-making. At the onset of these new developments I gave myself two years to learn the new environment. I did not do well trading from upstairs. The primary reason was the new environment was just developing. It was the blind leading the blind. A lot of exchange members lost their livelihood because of off floor trading.
Now, beginning of year 2022 a business partner suggested I check out Prop Trading. It was a novel idea for me. Are there really companies that will back a successful upstairs trader with capital? In researching the main tool of Prop trading I discovered Order Flow Trading (OFT). Mind you, I'm checking out state-of-the-art tools with an old trader mentality and experience. Most OFT tools are reformatted tools and techniques from my early days, and even earlier days from the early 1900's. Nothing new under the sun.
What does this mean to a new trader? Techniques that worked back at the beginning of trading still works now. Techniques and management that failed back then, will also fail now. Nothing new under the sun.
Let me paraphrase the late John Gann, the son of legendary William D. Gann. Back over 30 years ago an acquaintance found out John Gann's son was a member of the New York Stock Exchange. Not only that, he got a hold of John Gann's personal phone number. So he decided to call John Gann one day to ask him if his father withheld any trading techniques in his publicized writings. The techniques that REALLY made all the money for William D. When asked that question, John Gann paused, and said to my friend on the other end of the phone call: EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO MAKE MONEY IN THE MARKETS ARE ALREADY OUT THERE.
Nothing new under the sun.
The following 8 users say Thank You to FillBill for this post:
This is a very interesting thread and one of the reasons I subscribed to the Elite Membership a) to say 'thank you' to the community for this brilliant insight and b) to try to be a part of this community and to be a little bit more active here. In general I'm a little bit "introvert" and don't write in communities that much. But I realize that it does me good in trading, so I want to get more involved here.
Something I thought about while reading the whole thread is that individuals in this thread always only talk about traders who try to be full-time trader. Trader who quit their regular job and go all-in into trading.
Is "all-in" really the only way to go? I understand you professional guys have no good feelings about individuals who treat trading like a hobby. But between "all-in fulltime" and "hobby" ... there is something in between I would say.
Wouldnt it be a possible solution to stay in the professional job, maybe to x% just to make sure to have a steady and reliable income stream? This would keep out the pressure of the whole trading I would imagine. At least for me this is an option. Or to say it the other way around: I'm in my mid 30's, father of two kids, married, mortgage loan. It would be never ever an option for me to go "all-in" and quit my job to fully concentrate on trading. What would be an option is to work only 50% of my job to concentrate on trading and make it a profitable income for the family.
I think that would bring the pressure down a lot for the individual trading process.
The following 8 users say Thank You to chasepatrol for this post:
I posted to this thread 10 years ago when it was first created. I'm still asking myself if I should give up. Still not profitable, so the fantasy of giving up the day job remains a fantasy. It's impossible to put into words how fucking frustrating trading is.
The following 12 users say Thank You to David_R for this post:
I'd like to rename the title from "Time to give up" into "Optimizing my trading". This is more future oriented.
We all know about the totally undefined term "over trading". That doesn't help to get better results.
Taking another approach with reducing to the max:
In my trading I do not scalp nor taking trades over several days.
But what I do is Taking ONE Trade per DAY during cash hours
This is very simple and works best: Either a winner, a zero or a loser.
But never a nerves killing act.
Works fine for me. Plus needs no long screen time. So I can concentrate on other tasks. The results from my trading you can find here in the journal section.
Main thing to remember: KNOW your INSTRUMENT! Inside out. (Singular). Learn to read the patterns. And no hopping from one flower to the next.
All said:
Good trades!
GFIs1
The following 8 users say Thank You to GFIs1 for this post:
I offer this comment slightly tongue-in-cheek, and with no criticism, but to me it feels like finding a parking space in a one-way street, when you want to visit the far end of the street.
Maybe the space you find right now will be the best one.
Maybe there'll be another one right outside the house you want to visit.
Maybe this will be the last opportunity and because of the one-way system, if you miss this one you'll have to drive for another half an hour in heavy traffic, without finding one at all, if you continue.
So do you take this space, or not?
How do you know at the decision-time that there isn't a much better one available 500 meters further in the right direction for you?
How do you know, when you take the "best trade of the day" that it isn't just "the best one you've seen today" and that the next three, or the next five, won't all be much, much better?
For sure, if you're trading an opening-range breakout, it's a bit different and you may get only one real opportunity, but I don't think this is what you guys are discussing, is it?
Aren't you discussing a situation where a later trade can easily turn out to be better than the one you take?
I know many people share your attitude, and it may work well for you, and you may be doing exactly the right thing, but honestly I don't follow the logic.
The following 8 users say Thank You to Tymbeline for this post:
It's all about probabilities: If you drive through the same street every day, you know the parking spaces in the context of time. This is called a 'pattern'. Ask your statistician. This is exactly the principle I use as the basis for my single trade per weekday. High probability: drive and park aka trade, Low probability: neither drive nor trade. Very simple - isn't it?
Count your positive weeks versus the negative ones and compare them with every past year. This is the way to see how you perform. Plus a path to omit overtrading or revenge trading.
Finally: Know your instrument by heart!
GFIs1
The following 4 users say Thank You to GFIs1 for this post:
Take as many trades as you think you can make money on.
One trade per day teaches nothing and surely makes no money.
The futures market is open 23 hours a day. Why in the world would you only want to take 1 trade per day? Are you trying to get rich or make enough money weekly hamburger?
