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Time to Give Up
Started:March 27th, 2013 (04:47 PM) by Big Mike Views / Replies:56,466 / 429
Last Reply:21 Hours Ago (10:27 PM) Attachments:4

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Time to Give Up

Old August 30th, 2015, 02:40 AM   #241 (permalink)
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30.00 per day.

I disagree, the interpretation is based upon your experiences and environment. People, in general would take 7200.00 per year as a hobby, this can translate as a jump off point for people as they gain confidence, focus and start understanding the market, micro/macro relationships, analysis, risk management etc.

I understand the question quite well and its rigged but given the fact a person is 70K in the whole, 7 times of 10, this person will make the wrong decision. So, you can tell them to quite but 8 out of 10 will ignore taking advice which limits their loses. The psychology regarding lose is GRANDER and tells them, you are no good and failed, so instead of reflecting on their pass behaviour, they become motivated by another emotion.

Don't get back up and try this again. Human Psychology....Honestly, this sounds like TV character who is a crazy guy and tells people about stocks and their company, he lose all his trading capital, mortgage his home, lose money and then look at what happened....He is making a few bucks and still does not trade.

Human Psychology....amazing....knock me down and Ill get back up and find money which is not mine to spend.

He only took your advice after he realized his trading, his character was to chaotic to trade.

Essentially, I agree with your hard core stance but taken into account the other person psychology. After all, this is psychology forum so lets get deep into the character and make a chump a champ.....Plan the Trade, Trade the Plan...

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Old August 30th, 2015, 11:20 AM   #242 (permalink)
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gregoryalexandr View Post
Plan the Trade, Trade the Plan...

LOL.

You need to spend more time reading what has already been written on futures.io (formerly BMT), watching the webinars, reading the threads where traders make money every day (real money, 5 figures, not $30 dollars) and less time telling me I am wrong , less time defending your position out of ignorance, and less time following axioms from wanna be vendor-traders like "plan the trade, trade the plan" or reading books written a decade ago or more that have absolute no bearing on reality of this market.

My reply to you is only to help you, to get you to wake up and snap out of the dream world. If you don't take the time to appreciate the reply, or take the time to read what was already written, then there is no helping you.

Mike

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Old August 31st, 2015, 12:50 PM   #243 (permalink)
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If you and your family are suffering and you are not earning money then give up. it doesn't matter how much time you have put into it.

trading is one of the most difficult things to become profitable.
If you studied for a law degree you would expect to have no income for many years until you became successful.
Think of Trading as more difficult and get out before you lose your house.

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Old September 1st, 2015, 09:08 AM   #244 (permalink)
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Theory through the peep hole of reality.

I am a second generation trader whose only source of income is trading, well, besides other firms we allocate our funds at end of year.

Is the person who panhandles have greater fortune or less then corporate executive? (This is about perception)

A story from my experiences in Minnesota. I use to shop at a grocery store (LUNDS) which was technological advance for the time (1995) and the selection of sea food was outstanding. The residential real estate in the surrounding area started at $300,000 and usually one would see BMW's, and other imports in the drive ways...

Coming from the airport one day, I decided to pick up some groceries at LUNDS, as I drove into the parking lot I realized the store was not open any longer, CLOSED was written across the doors.

After some months I ran into the owner Rick Lund and asked him why that location closed. He replied, their initial analysis did not take into consideration people extending their finances for houses, cars etc...and no budget to eat well. What a lesson to be learned, I can eat hot dogs and pay my mortgage but at least I will look good driving down the highway....Who is really fooling who? A sad story but true. (This is about people who want to live better, but in reality, would give up anything for their perception and the image they project)

Am I in the psychology and money management section of futures.io (formerly BMT) Forum....I really do appreciate your interviews...this is what brought me....Oh, yes and the extensive coverage of Sierra Charts. Thank you for your reply, Mr. Mike and taking time from your busy schedule to do so.

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Old September 7th, 2015, 01:15 PM   #245 (permalink)
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Futures Edge on FIO

Are you a NinjaTrader user?

 
Hi,
I would like to share my thoughts too. I'm trying to be a trader since more tan two years, so far no success. I've gone back and forth and I still have hundreds of new things and concepts and ideas to try. All of them look like the real good one but all of them become unprofitable again and again. I have'nt lost a lot of money because after the first rush of my first months I decided just papertrade, if I can't win papermoney there's nothing to do. But I certainly invest a big deal of my efforts, time and energy.

To me trading looks much more difficult tan being a doctor, or an architect. Why? Simply because you have to find your way, learn by yourself (in my humble opinión). If you want to run a new business there are business schools. You can learn how to be a doctor on University. Most of the medecin books are worth to read (I guess), but regarding trading, could we say the same? Where will you learn the rules of trading? Well, I'm just geting pieces of new concepts here and there, once I really understand them I see them overlap in some cases, which is good because they confirm to each other. But you have to find your way because I'm afraid there isn't any angel willing to show you the holy grail not even the straight path to success. But that's Ok for me, I guess this is the game and doesn't look that bad.

Coming back to the original question. When is it time to give up? I see there are no conclusions and that's something I wonder. After how many years of trying and/or losing money should you just give up? Again no rules here either...

Well, I recently discovered this forum and it's really interesting to follow you guys. A lot to learn from most of you and that's a path to follow.

Bye
Enric

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Old October 3rd, 2015, 04:34 AM   #246 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
LOL.

You need to spend more time reading what has already been written on futures.io (formerly BMT), watching the webinars, reading the threads where traders make money every day (real money, 5 figures, not $30 dollars) and less time telling me I am wrong , less time defending your position out of ignorance, and less time following axioms from wanna be vendor-traders like "plan the trade, trade the plan" or reading books written a decade ago or more that have absolute no bearing on reality of this market.

My reply to you is only to help you, to get you to wake up and snap out of the dream world. If you don't take the time to appreciate the reply, or take the time to read what was already written, then there is no helping you.

Mike

Interesting and more-so is your ironic sense of self....I am not here seeking your help of any other persons help....I have traded a long time and have been through many more experiences than most people.....I can say this....I have not lose money to the markets for the last 15 years, I think that pre-date your website and in terms of what you may think is REAL MONEY may be a simple sum my company makes daily....Mike, you need to be a little more humble in your approach....you need to do your homework when your use to speaking to people who think your here to help them instead of being condescending in tone.

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Old October 3rd, 2015, 04:45 AM   #247 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
No. At absolute best, that person simply has a hobby, a hobby that with 100% certainty costs him a lot of money and time every year.

Mike

From my experience, people who have become very successful have always thought of taking their hobby and making it their full time career. Who wouldn't want to do that? Making their hobby into a stream of income....Something like BMT into Futures.io, a hobby, can we call it that?

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Old October 3rd, 2015, 11:35 AM   #248 (permalink)
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This thread has been amazing.

There are so many good posts. I'm just starting out as a trader and only have 2-3 years of experience and no profitable track record.

The perspectives on here are really valuable.

Thanks everyone.

Here is another excellent thread that you should read and I would recommend for everyone.

https://futures.io/beginners-introductions/23761-some-insight-new-traders.html

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Old October 25th, 2015, 12:50 PM   #249 (permalink)
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Quit to feed a fragile Ego

Here is the Paul Tudor Jones failure speech:

Paul Tudor Jones Failure Speech – June 2009

Everyone fails in trading in the beginning. I was a dismal failure for two years as I went through the beginning and chartist trading cycles. Made every mistake in the book. Over trading, over leveraging, system hopping, poor money management, poor discipline, unseriousness. Suffered from information overload. I was clueless as to the best trading questions to ask. I was searching for the holy grail tweaking moving averages and stochastic combinations. The holy grail does exist, it just isn’t found with technical indicators.

You shouldn’t have any fear of failure. You shouldn’t wish it to happen. You always prepare for success. But if failure does happen, whether big or small, then you live and learn.

It makes you stronger.

For once you fail and hit rock bottom, then you survive and the inevitable recovery starts, you start to eventually think that it wasn’t that bad after all.


A GREAT VIDEO to describe the process of mental toughness and performance based activity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCPgvTRftZg

Do you feed a fragile ego and quit- Or do you believe effort and delayed gratification will
get you to your goal??
Be aware of your emotions Work with them- (They are the fuel to propel your action in the NOW)
Fail going 100%
Get Tough

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Old October 25th, 2015, 10:13 PM   #250 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I get a lot of emails and PM's from people seeking advice. Usually they've been losing money and don't really know what to do next. But I received a particular letter recently that made me want to write this post.

What are some of the characteristics of people who are losing money:

- No plan
- No way to measure themselves (they just focus on net profit)
- No consistent method, jumping from one trading room or indicator to the other
- Unrealistic expectations
- Unwilling to do the work required
- Not in a position in their life to make trading a priority

There are many more.

....

Great stuff. I would add:
  • Not understanding the auction (what participants are motivated to do)
  • Not having a clear trade management scheme (what do I do once the trade is on?)
  • Not letting trades work themselves out (micro-managing yourself out of trades only to see them go as planned once you are out)
  • Not setting goals for what it is you will focus on this week
  • Not measuring how you did versus your goal and adjusting
  • Not understanding the voice in your head when you are stressed

Those are just a few I have dealt with at my prop shop and during my exposure to online traders.

So much to say on this subject, because it is really a big one and I have seen so many who want to be traders come and go. I will get caught up and contribute where I can.

Cheers!
FT71

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