Time to Give Up (Page 23) - Psychology and Money Management | futures.io
futures.io futures trading
 

Go Back   futures.io

> Futures Trading, News, Charts and Platforms > Psychology and Money Management


Time to Give Up
Started:March 27th, 2013 (04:47 PM) by Big Mike Views / Replies:56,425 / 429
Last Reply:11 Hours Ago (10:27 PM) Attachments:4

Welcome to futures.io.

Welcome, Guest!

This forum was established to help traders (especially futures traders) by openly sharing indicators, strategies, methods, trading journals and discussing the psychology of trading.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading forums:
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive on our forums.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendor advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in openness and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, it is not something tangible you can download.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.


You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community. It's free and simple, and we will never resell your private information.

-- Big Mike
     

Reply
 4  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread

Time to Give Up

Old May 6th, 2015, 12:36 PM   #221 (permalink)
Elite Member
Homosassa, Fl USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker/Data: Global futures, but may change to Midland
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 5 since Apr 2013
Thanks: 8 given, 4 received

Read this whole thread, here's where I am

Hi,
I think at least some of my problems with trading are from the emotions I deal with while trading. I actually thought I was alone in this before reading this thread, and it's been a welcome eyeopener. I've been working with a reiki practitioner on the stuff that comes up when I trade, causing me to eat like a bird and take a dump like an elephant. Here's what I've dealt with so far- fear of being powerless in an out of control situation. ( Trade going the wrong way.) Second big one- every time I've been successful at something I've had to deal with envy and nasty stuff from people who are jealous. I've going to deal with that by keeping my mouth shut about it if I do get to the point of being profitable in this long run.
I've been evaluating every trade, writing down what happens, and evaluating my trade by coming up with a ratio of how I rate myself in trade planning, trade entry, trade execution. Then I figure out what I did wrong, and how I can improve my results for my next trade.
I am trading nadex options, I want to trade futures but I want to get my trade issues dealt with before I take on the futures markets- which have a much higher degree of risk than options, where your risk is limited to the amount of the option.
For a long time, I was so paralyzed by fear that I could not record my trades, and I would overtrade out of frustration and anger. Nadex lets me trade live without risking a lot while I learn to deal with trades going sideways, even after you get up on time, evaluate the markets, put together your trade plan, and your buy and sell points. I screwed up today because I've had a series of losing trades, I planned carefully, got a good entry, and the trade hit my strike price and reversed. I had failed to set a stop loss on the trade, and was 'just hoping' it would go back up. My cat started to howl, my chest felt tight, I was looking at the atr, thinking, it's declining, that is not a good sign, but I didn't pull the trade where I should have, because I failed to set a stop loss. That's a big error. I got paralyzed again.
I think today is going to be range bound (ES) and I went long at the top of the range thinking it was an upside break out.
Hind sight is 20/20, isn't it? One issue with Nadex options that is specific to binaries is that you have a time limit on the option, and it is a yes no proposition, you are either in the money on the option or not, and you lose your premium if you are in the wrong direction. I want to make the shorter term options work for me, so that I don't sit in front of the computer all day protecting my position.
So more practice on exits for me. I get paralyzed when I don't have an exit plan, and I need to exit.
My next issue to deal with is being angry when I have a losing trade and wanting to get even.
Thanks all of you for posting to this thread it's been very helpful to me.
Jenne


Last edited by Jenne; May 6th, 2015 at 12:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to Jenne for this post:
     

Old May 6th, 2015, 08:22 PM   #222 (permalink)
Elite Member
milpitas, ca, usa
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradestation
Broker/Data: Tradestation, Ameritrade
Favorite Futures: ES, Gold, 10 Yr
 
rahulgopi's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,442 since Feb 2014
Thanks: 1,044 given, 3,189 received


Jenne View Post
Hi,
I think at least some of my problems with trading are from the emotions I deal with while trading. I actually thought I was alone in this before reading this thread, and it's been a welcome eyeopener. I've been working with a reiki practitioner on the stuff that comes up when I trade, causing me to eat like a bird and take a dump like an elephant. Here's what I've dealt with so far- fear of being powerless in an out of control situation. ( Trade going the wrong way.) Second big one- every time I've been successful at something I've had to deal with envy and nasty stuff from people who are jealous. I've going to deal with that by keeping my mouth shut about it if I do get to the point of being profitable in this long run.
I've been evaluating every trade, writing down what happens, and evaluating my trade by coming up with a ratio of how I rate myself in trade planning, trade entry, trade execution. Then I figure out what I did wrong, and how I can improve my results for my next trade.
I am trading nadex options, I want to trade futures but I want to get my trade issues dealt with before I take on the futures markets- which have a much higher degree of risk than options, where your risk is limited to the amount of the option.
For a long time, I was so paralyzed by fear that I could not record my trades, and I would overtrade out of frustration and anger. Nadex lets me trade live without risking a lot while I learn to deal with trades going sideways, even after you get up on time, evaluate the markets, put together your trade plan, and your buy and sell points. I screwed up today because I've had a series of losing trades, I planned carefully, got a good entry, and the trade hit my strike price and reversed. I had failed to set a stop loss on the trade, and was 'just hoping' it would go back up. My cat started to howl, my chest felt tight, I was looking at the atr, thinking, it's declining, that is not a good sign, but I didn't pull the trade where I should have, because I failed to set a stop loss. That's a big error. I got paralyzed again.
I think today is going to be range bound (ES) and I went long at the top of the range thinking it was an upside break out.
Hind sight is 20/20, isn't it? One issue with Nadex options that is specific to binaries is that you have a time limit on the option, and it is a yes no proposition, you are either in the money on the option or not, and you lose your premium if you are in the wrong direction. I want to make the shorter term options work for me, so that I don't sit in front of the computer all day protecting my position.
So more practice on exits for me. I get paralyzed when I don't have an exit plan, and I need to exit.
My next issue to deal with is being angry when I have a losing trade and wanting to get even.
Thanks all of you for posting to this thread it's been very helpful to me.
Jenne

Jenne,
if you read only one trading psychology book, read "Trade Mindfully" by Gary Dayton. I read this after few others recommended it in this forum and it really is good book. Thinking (heuristics or mental shortcuts) is as important as emotions in trading. It will give you a reason to practice mindfulness.

Lot of people fail with mindfulness is when they try to control "quieting the mind" or thoughts and get upset when it is not that "quiet" as expected even after trying "hard". This by itself is causing stress and anxiety.

Managing discomfort is key to successful trading and looking at discomfort as a cue to be objective will greatly help you. Bottom-line is do not fight them but accept and use them.

Reply With Quote
     
The following 9 users say Thank You to rahulgopi for this post:
     

Old May 7th, 2015, 04:05 AM   #223 (permalink)
Drive, eat, drive back
Philadelphia
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: sc
Favorite Futures: tf
 
Itchymoku's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,826 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 1,628 given, 3,419 received


Never give up, never surrender, be all that you can be. Never half ass trading. If you plan to be a trader give it your all. Learn all you can learn. Make it your everything. If you fail try, try, and try again. figure out what you did wrong. If you don't know then ask someone whose a better trader. If you have obligations to your family then pick up a stable job and learn how to trade in your spare time but don't abandon your family. This is the only moral reason I could think that would be a good enough reason to quit temporarily because the children depend on their parents income. That and if you're under capitalized and need a job to live then by all means find a job to work but don't quit simply for that reason just keep learning when you have time.


Last edited by Itchymoku; May 7th, 2015 at 08:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
The following 2 users say Thank You to Itchymoku for this post:
     

Old May 7th, 2015, 01:11 PM   #224 (permalink)
Elite Member
Homosassa, Fl USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker/Data: Global futures, but may change to Midland
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 5 since Apr 2013
Thanks: 8 given, 4 received

I won't give up!

thanks for the replies, I will buy the book by dalton. I am hoping that I can get to the point of using my emotions, rather than being pushed around by them. My finances are OK, I work week ends, Friday Saturday and Sunday-it's enough to keep us floating. My husband is really supportive, so is my cat... I am noticing that I am no longer trading in a state of panic, and I can think about what I'm doing and record my actions and analyze them. My husband and I run a small business, I could explain to him that pulling an option trade short of the target is the equivalent of buying 500.00 worth of merchandise and selling for 300.00 to make the rent, and he got it.
If nothing else, I'm resolving my personal issues, who would have thought trading would be a vehicle to really looking at your own behavior. I'm older, already did the put the kid through college, people in my family literally die young at about 90, usually live to 100, I think this is my third real passion in life. and I agree, never, never sacrifice your family, there is no money that will salvage that one.
I think it has helped me to run the business week ends, while learning to trade, I really have to take a mental break and do something completely different for a while, when I get back to the screens on Monday, I may be tired, but my mental gears are no longer rusty. next step for me, get rid of the issues about having been ripped off in the past... and having that one pop up in trading.
thanks again,
Jenne

Reply With Quote
     
The following 3 users say Thank You to Jenne for this post:
     

Old May 15th, 2015, 07:51 PM   #225 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
NY NY USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 7 since May 2015
Thanks: 2 given, 2 received

Futures Edge on FIO

Are you a NinjaTrader user?

 

Itchymoku View Post
Never give up, never surrender, be all that you can be. Never half ass trading. If you plan to be a trader give it your all. Learn all you can learn. Make it your everything. If you fail try, try, and try again. figure out what you did wrong. If you don't know then ask someone whose a better trader. If you have obligations to your family then pick up a stable job and learn how to trade in your spare time but don't abandon your family. This is the only moral reason I could think that would be a good enough reason to quit temporarily because the children depend on their parents income. That and if you're under capitalized and need a job to live then by all means find a job to work but don't quit simply for that reason just keep learning when you have time.


very encouraging message to me right now. Thanks.

Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to jjanguda for this post:
     

Old May 28th, 2015, 11:38 AM   #226 (permalink)
Elite Member
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT, MT4
Favorite Futures: CL, DAX, ZB
 
spideysteve's Avatar
 
Posts: 92 since Mar 2015
Thanks: 146 given, 89 received


rahulgopi View Post
Jenne,
if you read only one trading psychology book, read "Trade Mindfully" by Gary Dayton. I read this after few others recommended it in this forum and it really is good book. Thinking (heuristics or mental shortcuts) is as important as emotions in trading. It will give you a reason to practice mindfulness.

Lot of people fail with mindfulness is when they try to control "quieting the mind" or thoughts and get upset when it is not that "quiet" as expected even after trying "hard". This by itself is causing stress and anxiety.

Managing discomfort is key to successful trading and looking at discomfort as a cue to be objective will greatly help you. Bottom-line is do not fight them but accept and use them.

I've read other books with similar themes, but not specific to trading. I bought this one yesterday and started reading last night .. great recommendation, thanks!

Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to spideysteve for this post:
     

Old June 4th, 2015, 03:45 PM   #227 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Atlanta, GA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Money
 
Posts: 1 since Jun 2015
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received


Big Mike View Post
That may be true but was not the inspiration for the post. The inspiration was one too many emails or PM's from people who -- many of which have no business trading -- wanting to know what trading room they should follow, or what system is the most profitable. Then there are the PM's and emails from the guys who have lost their life savings, are on the outs with their wife, who have devoted the last two years of their life trying to make this work -- but cannot.

Mike

I can't image losing your life savings. Feel bad for those people.

Reply With Quote
     

Old June 18th, 2015, 05:25 AM   #228 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
sydney australia
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: MT
Favorite Futures: Forex
 
Posts: 8 since Jun 2015
Thanks: 5 given, 1 received

Really appreciate the post - I might have to re-evaluate my situation.

Reply With Quote
     

Old June 18th, 2015, 02:55 PM   #229 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Yuma, AZ, USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Traders Studio, Sierra Chart, Galactic Investor, Gannalyst, Fibonacci Trader
Broker/Data: LMAX, Interactive Brokers, TD Ameritrade, RCM/Attain
Favorite Futures: Forex, Commodity Futures and Options, Gold, Silver, Crude
 
Posts: 9 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 0 given, 7 received

Science and the attempt to identify.

"I only become stronger because I identified my own weakness and worked for decades to improve"

"Know Thy Self"


1) Observe and Record

2) Postulate theory of your findings (Trading Results: What went right and wrong? How could one improve their results)

3) Review original findings (Trading results) and gather more findings (Data Analysis), re-observe to confirm your findings.

4) Try to disprove theory (More Analysis, I complete this through Wolfram and IBM software, it is exhausting but the ROI is worth your time and effort, given the fact, you and only you are responsible for your gains and losses)

5) If you can NOT disprove theory, the findings are substantiated. (Technical Analysis, Gann, Elliot, Fibonacci and hopefully the people beginning and intermediate level traders are working their way to Advance levels in their analysis.)

More importantly, my trading plan is in-depth and has 23 pages. It not simple just simply complicated, I rely solely on my trading plan to direct my decision making, it is my basis for the above 5 steps.

I spent more time analysing the markets than trading.

Gregory Alexandr (2nd generation trader)


Last edited by gregoryalexandr; June 18th, 2015 at 03:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
The following 2 users say Thank You to gregoryalexandr for this post:
     

Old June 18th, 2015, 04:53 PM   #230 (permalink)
Elite Member
Vancouver Canada
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, IB
Favorite Futures: es ym etf's
 
Cerberus's Avatar
 
Posts: 27 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 18 given, 18 received

FT71 last 7 min of


today's traderbites - listen to it, several times maybe, to make it sink in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWnpqYfEksc


first 9 minutes are the daily news/VolPro analysis/prep. For the motivational
part only, start at Min 9 - Really good stuff

Cer

Reply With Quote
     
The following 4 users say Thank You to Cerberus for this post:
     

Reply



futures.io > Futures Trading, News, Charts and Platforms > Psychology and Money Management > Time to Give Up

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)
 

NinjaTrader 8: Features and Enhancements, Tips and Tricks

Dec 6
 

Al Brooks: Stop Losing when a Good Trade goes Bad, Correcting Mistakes

Elite only
 

Trading Technologies: Algo Design Lab hands-on

Dec 13
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Give this a listen RJay Psychology and Money Management 3 March 12th, 2016 11:54 AM
Will Bernanke Give the Market What It Wants? Quick Summary News and Current Events 3 January 24th, 2014 12:37 AM
Will the Election Give the Market What It Wants? Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 November 3rd, 2012 01:50 AM
I give MC yet another chance... but nothing's different this time around. josh MultiCharts 8 September 4th, 2012 04:51 AM
Morgan Stanley CEO: Give Facebook a 'Little Bit of Time' Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 May 31st, 2012 07:20 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:24 AM.

Copyright © 2016 by futures.io. All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
 
no new posts

Page generated 2016-12-07 in 0.17 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.159.189.139