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Time to Give Up
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Created: by Big Mike Attachments:4

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Time to Give Up

  #191 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Birmingham UK
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Broker/Data: IG/eSignal
Favorite Futures: Dax
ratfink's Avatar
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Itchymoku View Post
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Like it, and I guess the other moral is you never know how thin the floor is underneath you.

Travel Well
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  #192 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Sarasota FL
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ratfink View Post
Like it, and I guess the other moral is you never know how thin the floor is underneath you.

Always looking at the bright side....


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  #193 (permalink)
Banned: trolling
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: "I trade, therefore, I AM!"; Theme Song: "Atomic Dog!"
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kronie's Avatar
Posts: 798 since Oct 2009
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Perhaps its not time to give up yet....you may say,

but then again, how do you keep from wearing out your trading buddies, due to the "alone time" in each one's offices?

ok, I suffer from that, and I am man enough to admit it!

are you grown enough to recognize, and admit that too?

what are some solutions?

two that I have found are:

1) very low volume TV exclusively on either BloombergTV, CNBC, or (the regrettably overly political) Fox Business News channels

2) subscription to the Squawk Box services

3) participation (infrequently, and especially not while trade stalking or in a trade) a trading session / room / Skype room

what solutions have you found work?

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  #194 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Birmingham UK
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
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Favorite Futures: Dax
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bobwest View Post
Always looking at the bright side....


Ha! And I didn't even mention anything about the roof falling in...

Travel Well
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  #195 (permalink)
Membership Temporarily Revoked
Warsaw Poland
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: MetaStock
Favorite Futures: ACN
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Big Mike View Post
There is no way to know that I won't die before I finish writing this post. But, so long as I remain healthy enough - I will live.

The same is true in trading. So long as I am a better trader than others, I can make money.

That's true.
I would argue with statement that you have to be better than others.
You can't be only better than 50% of other traders. You have to be better then 50% of money flowing the market.
So what if you are better then 100 of traders with 1 million USD trading power, if one prop trader from Goldman can have 500 millions under his management and can wipe profits from those 100 traders.
So one trader with a lot of assets can clear effectiveness that your looking for, when 100 traders with less money can't do it.

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  #196 (permalink)
Elite Member
Sydney, NSW Australia
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: Currency
Posts: 18 since Jun 2012
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Wanting to succeed as bad as I want to breath

THanks for the post BM! I wanted trading success so bad I quit my flourishing military career and dumped by unsupportive girlfriend. I told myself I was not going to get a job and that I must succeed no matter what. These days I'm reaping the rewards and I have a better girlfriend heehhe.

Putting yourself in a corner where you have no choice to succeed is one way to do it.

As Tony Robins said, you must have narrow focus to be really good at what you do. Impossible to master everything.

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  #197 (permalink)
Every Day I'm a n00b
San Tan Valley, AZ/USA
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT7
Broker/Data: IB, Tallinex, & 10 others.
Favorite Futures: Futures
Posts: 195 since Jun 2013
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I'm glad I came back.

I started out, while in the middle of my education program, and couldn't focus on both. I quit trading because I fit the description of someone who should have quit.

I've finished my program, I work a stable job that supports me and my family, and am seeking the greater challenge.

I don't need the money, as I could retire five times over. Something I read in this thread defined my desires for me: risk management, human psychology, and strategy implementation.

They aren't different, but rather they are limbs of what constitutes trading.

Anyways, I'm an amateur, and look forward to losing all my money

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  #198 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
hong kong
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Most of my trading profits goes to paying commissions and fees, it seems whatever I do, my profitability before fees is 50/50

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  #199 (permalink)
Banned: trolling
Futures Experience: Beginner
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Big Mike View Post
I get a lot of emails and PM's from people seeking advice. Usually they've been losing money and don't really know what to do next. But I received a particular letter recently that made me want to write this post.

What are some of the characteristics of people who are losing money:

- No plan
- No way to measure themselves (they just focus on net profit)
- No consistent method, jumping from one trading room or indicator to the other
- Unrealistic expectations
- Unwilling to do the work required
- Not in a position in their life to make trading a priority

There are many more.

For every good trader out there, there are 100 more who think they can just copy someone else's method and start making money or join some trading room or download some expensive set of indicators, and be profitable.

Most of these guys have completely unrealistic expectations. They expect to take $10,000 and turn it into $100,000 at the end of the year, for example, even though they have no track record of performance or gains.

These people have no plan. They constantly blame their computer, their trading platform, their broker, their wife, their kids for missing trades or mistakes during a trade. They have no idea what to focus on or where to start.

And worse, most of them are unwilling to do the work. Yes, there are people for which that does not apply who are truly trying their best. But they are few and far between. Most people that are struggling aren't even willing to maintain a journal. Most people aren't willing to set realistic expectations. Most people aren't willing to accept responsibility for their actions.

On top of that, most of these guys aren't in a position in their life to even give trading a chance. Examples would be that they just lost their job. That is the worse time to start trading. Other examples would be that they have a job but no real savings, no money to burn in trading education expenses (and I don't mean from a trading room or buying a product). Worse still, many of these guys have no support from their wife or girlfriend because as you can imagine, they are losing money and also spending a lot of "free time" with trading instead of with their loved ones or kids. This is an impossible situation to put yourself in and expect good results.

So the point of this thread is not to talk about really any of that but instead to talk about when it is time to give up, or simply to move on.

In fact, a lot of times my advice to these guys is to move on. Stop trading. Let's be real, if you are undercapitalized, unwilling to do the real work, and have no support from your family -- you aren't in a position to be a good trader.

But I also have to be honest, some times when I tell someone to stop trading, what I am really wanting them to do is come back and tell me NO, they will not stop, they are going to make it work. I mean if you really want this, then fight for it. But as I've said countless times before -- willpower alone is not enough to make you profitable.

We know that most people "give up" once they blow all or a significant portion of their initial deposit at a broker. This usually happens in less than 90 days according to brokers I've talked to. Most of these people aren't a part of any trading forum, and those that are, most of them are not participating, do not have a journal, have not taken time to ask questions or formulate a plan, etc. Again let's be honest: if anyone had taken the time to formulate a plan and prepare, they would not have allowed themselves to blow an account in 90 days.

For the rest, the ones that are members of futures.io (formerly BMT), I find that the overwhelming (close to 100%) of people that are struggling are the ones that have zero posts. I've come to look at this as an important metric. The ones that are uninvolved in the forum, for whatever reason, are going to be at a big disadvantage in my opinion. They lack a support network but also lack the benefit of accountability which is so critically important.

I've also found that these struggling traders are ones that haven't participated in any webinars. So that means they are unwilling to put in the time. They spend all their time, instead, on downloading indicators or searching for a new trading room to call trades.

OK so let me end by putting this out there... when is it the appropriate time to give up? Let's be honest, not everyone is cut out for trading. In fact, if we are honest, very few are. So it's cruel to string some of these guys along, it would be better for them to help them identify early on they don't have what it takes and they should move on.


So true,one should crush all the stumbling blocks emphasised in this post,one after another.And then some.

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  #200 (permalink)
Elite Member
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: ProSpreads, CQG
Favorite Futures: FGBL, Stocks
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Posts: 11 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 1 given, 6 received

In my opinion traders starting their carrier from M5 and lower timeframe, but why they won't start from Daily/Weekly first to build some record and confidence? It's harder to blown account on higher timeframe, also there is more time to make a decision. There is dozen of thousands markets available.

Just my 2 cents.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

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