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Time to Give Up
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Created: by Big Mike Attachments:4

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Time to Give Up

  #181 (permalink)
Membership Temporarily Revoked
Warsaw Poland
 
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AgileQuant's Avatar
 
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Don't you get a feeling that there is now way to assume you will get constant profits from publicly open market?

I mean that we have open market that anyone can trade. We can find ineffective behaviors that we can use and profit. However there is no warranty that no one else will find this ineffectiveness and use it to it's own profits. If that will happen - this ineffectiveness will diminish. Due to the fact that millions of people are looking at this market and ability to profit makes it hard to achieve long term profits. If you even find one way to profit, you can't be sure it will disappear tomorrow, next year.


That's kind of a downer.

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  #182 (permalink)
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AgileQuant View Post
Don't you get a feeling that there is now way to assume you will get constant profits from publicly open market?

I mean that we have open market that anyone can trade. We can find ineffective behaviors that we can use and profit. However there is no warranty that no one else will find this ineffectiveness and use it to it's own profits. If that will happen - this ineffectiveness will diminish. Due to the fact that millions of people are looking at this market and ability to profit makes it hard to achieve long term profits. If you even find one way to profit, you can't be sure it will disappear tomorrow, next year.


That's kind of a downer.

There is no way to know that I won't die before I finish writing this post. But, so long as I remain healthy enough - I will live.

The same is true in trading. So long as I am a better trader than others, I can make money.

Mike

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  #183 (permalink)
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AgileQuant View Post
Don't you get a feeling that there is now way to assume you will get constant profits from publicly open market?

I mean that we have open market that anyone can trade. We can find ineffective behaviors that we can use and profit. However there is no warranty that no one else will find this ineffectiveness and use it to it's own profits. If that will happen - this ineffectiveness will diminish. Due to the fact that millions of people are looking at this market and ability to profit makes it hard to achieve long term profits. If you even find one way to profit, you can't be sure it will disappear tomorrow, next year.


That's kind of a downer.

My mentor taught me this a few years ago, long term it doesn't matter what others returns are or if they are better trader than you. Who really knows the behaviors of others? Why someone bought or shorted a stock. It causes someone to question legitimate reasons (ie good earnings) for a trade. Only thing that matters is what you're investing your hard earned money in, and there are companies still making money selling their products and services.

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  #184 (permalink)
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I would say don't put yourself in a difficult situation when you have to decide if you MUST quit trading or not.

There is no point (at all) to risk live capital until you can make money papertrading.

You can argue that it's different than live trading but do you think pilot trainees argue when they are put on a sim and crash it?! Is any of those trainees given a chance to fly a REAL airplane?

If you don't have the discipline to trade without real risk what are the chances you will have it when there is real responsibility?

-----

Just to make your time worthwhile: answer this simple question: HOW EXACTLY are you going to pull out money from the market on a day-to-day / week-to-week basis? You won't make money until you have the answer.

-----

Overcoming the problem of real-risk anxiety: first of all you don't necessarly have to risk your own money. There are plenty of prop firms. And there are many jobs with much higher responibility (money wise).

If you are not fortunate enought to be selected a prop trader you can trade your own money without putting too much risk on the table. After you have proven yourself in sim, that you are not going to blow up, put 5k in an account and some extra for margin. If you are going to make money and not lose it, you don't need more. And if you don't get the same results as in sim; ask yourself very soon: WHY.

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  #185 (permalink)
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On the other hand if you are a broke-ass gambler; quitting won't be an option but the only way.

You qualify as a gambler if you don't have a trading plan or not follow it in every point (most importantly defined edge and defined risk tolerance)

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  #186 (permalink)
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However it is better to quit if:

- you have reached your financial goal (there are too many horror stories of losing a 10M+ account; there is just no point in risking at this point - also if you have the freedom, just live your life outside of virtual reality; I know it is hard to quite if you are successful but you can find meaning for your life for example in raising your kids aswell...)

- you have more to lose than just money (family depending on you)

- health issues (mental or physical)

- time (or emotions) are more important to you than money (hey isn't the same apply to wh0res?!) - just wondering if you can really be in a romantic relationship and fully live your emotions while you are trading for a living. Any thoughts on this?

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  #187 (permalink)
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Yuri57 View Post
Just wondering if you can really be in a romantic relationship and fully live your emotions while you are trading for a living. Any thoughts on this?

Good question! I would be interested to read comments on this as well

Successful people will do what unsuccessful people won't or can't do!
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  #188 (permalink)
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Really good thread

Thanks to all of you for sharing those stories here on the Thread. I'm starting my journey in trading and all of what was said here is a big learning experience for sure. I'm glad I found the forum and that it has been able to provide me with quality information. On the past weeks I've been reading stuff and watching webinars on psychology of trading (haven't started studying strategies yet) and it just confirms what I've observed in other things in life: your mental state plays a big role on how your career will develop and all the external factors surrounding you are of big importance as well.

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  #189 (permalink)
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never give up

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  #190 (permalink)
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Taking a Break for few months


Initial few years Few account wipe outs ( holy grail search, change system, indicators).
Was a breakeven trader after that for 8 months.
Turned to be a profitable trader, with little profits. At this time left my day job and started trading full time.
Had been trading full time for past 1 year. Many loop holes seen , many short coming corrected.
Was not a profitable trader, This was more to do with
1> Increase trading lot size. (Psychology)
2> Unable to focus for longer duration.
3> Improper data ( I am not blaming others here, it was my fault took me few months to figure out my data vendor was not accurate.)
4> Market understanding. Each person is different, for me to be very comfortable a big level picture of markets how they function is very much essential. All I cared was how the trading instrument was trading.

What turned out to be good during this tenure as Trader:

1> Understood more about myself.
2> No big losses. Lost 8% of the capital allocated for trading.
3> Many ah-haa moments seen during full time trading.
4> Best days of my life. Enjoyed trading though was not successful .
5> Practice meditation, this has become habit , which I will continue.
6> Physical fitness has improved.

Current Plan:
1>Joined day job back
2> Keep working on Trading.

Plan for future:
Will be continuing day job for next 1 year.
Build some more corpus amount.
Loved experience of being trader.Back to Full time Trading in next 10-11 months.

Big learning so far as saying goes "When student is ready TEACHER will appear"
Many of the ah-ah moments experienced where being screamed out loud in this forum, I guess I was not ready.
We cannot rush in this profession, it has to be nurtured with time.
Big secret is survival. You have to survive long enough to understand and play this game.


Last edited by tinkug112; July 21st, 2014 at 01:07 AM.
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