A daily $ goal - Psychology and Money Management | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


A daily $ goal
Updated: Views / Replies:9,431 / 75
Created: by David_R Attachments:0

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

A daily $ goal

  #41 (permalink)
MATrader
Prague Czech Republic
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: S5 Trader, Jigsaw, SeasonAlgo, Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: IB/OEC
Favorite Futures: Eurex Futures
 
hadamkov's Avatar
 
Posts: 489 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 859 given, 391 received


djkiwi View Post
To add to this discussion the size of the account required is mostly dependent on the personal circumstances of the trader in my opinion. Let's look at 3 traders:
  • Trader A- lives at home with the parents paying no expenses may require only $25k in trading income per year to survive.
  • Trader B is married with 3 kids in private schools and a large mortgage, spouse working and bringing home $100k per year. The expenses total $150k but thanks to the income from the spouse the trader needs to make only $50k per year.
  • Trader C is also married with 3 kids in private schools and a large mortgage, spouse not working and needs to earn $150k a year to meet expenses.

And there is more to it. People in different parts of the world have different incomes in different currencies that have different values. But yes, that would be too complicated. I guess everybody can find him/herself in one of your categories. Thanks for that, I was thinking about it after reading your posts in this thread.

Hana

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to hadamkov for this post:
 
  #42 (permalink)
in a meditative state...
Portugal
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Multicharts, Jigsaw
Broker/Data: Stage5, OEC
Favorite Futures: Treasuries
 
arnie's Avatar
 
Posts: 801 since May 2010
Thanks: 709 given, 976 received

Here is maybe the best FREE trading course that anyone will ever hear:

Learning Center

It's divided in 12 chapters.
Rich Leonardi cover all major topics in a very easy going way.

Chapter 5 and 6 talk about the theme here discussed.

you can right click on each chapter and download it

If I become half a percent smarter each year, I'll be a genius by the time I die
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to arnie for this post:
 
  #43 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Singapore
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, MetaTrader
Favorite Futures: ES,CL
 
Posts: 13 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 1 given, 4 received


Daily goal will probably give yourself unnecessary stress.

Take what the market gives

Reply With Quote
 
  #44 (permalink)
Elite Member
Quebec
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker/Data: Stage 5 trading/AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,697 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,041 given, 4,496 received

The question of 'a daily goal' is interesting and i am wondering what those traders that attempt to pass a combine at topsetp think about this aspect and how they manage it. Do they set a daily goal or not?

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to trendisyourfriend for this post:
 
  #45 (permalink)
Elite Member
Lehrte, Germany
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: PTP / Rithmic
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
Daytrader999's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,159 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 1,137 given, 1,565 received

Indeed, that's a very interesting and challenging question...and I'll rather try to stay positive on every trading day in the Combine than setting a fixed daily Profit objective.

On the other hand, I'm afraid that there will be the notion of a certain daily minimum amount of profit living somewhere deep in my subconscious...


Last edited by Daytrader999; March 23rd, 2013 at 12:26 PM. Reason: Wording...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Daytrader999 for this post:
 
  #46 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Switzerland
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Investor/RT
Broker/Data: IB / DTN
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
Posts: 4,128 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 3,780 given, 7,650 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

As a trading beginner I had this idea too to set a daily goal. If this was reached I had to quit.

Today I see the scene from a different angle:
1) The market is *not* the same every day
2) One can not press out more than the market is willing to give
3) So I reduced to a one trade per day model during the most probable winning hours

That prevents from overtrading which is often the momentum to give back gains the same day in a stupid way.

One other possibilty to prevent from overtrading is - depending on your trading style - to limit trades by
number per day and in effect of some statistical daily results from the very own trading results in the past
like "never trade on Fed announcement days" as example.
See the homework and statistics thread for ideas.

In short: I am lucky when my trade does not kill the stop loss. I am happy when a trade brings a small gain.
I am extra glad when a trade gives a big gain.
The only thing that counts is surviving in the markets aka gaining more than losing.

Good Trades
GFIs1

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to GFIs1 for this post:
 
  #47 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Jose, Ca
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Broker/Data: AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: Something moving
 
David_R's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,510 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 2,267 given, 2,371 received

I posted below on another thread that didn't get much attention. The below applies here as we'll.


Good Trade, Bad Trade, Winning Trade, Losing Trade
This was sent to me and thought I'd share it. It was given to a trader by their mentor. I think this makes good sense, but seems we are programmed to think other wise.

D

If you learn nothing else, learn this:

Good Trade – A trade taken in accordance with your rules.

Winning Trade – A trade that makes money.

Bad Trade – A trade taken that is not in accordance with your rules.

Losing Trade – A trade that loses money.


The trading methodology that Richard Dennis taught his Turtles is arguably one of the most difficult trading methods for a typical trader to execute. Not only does it require the trader to hold on to winning positions for extraordinary lengths of time and profit, but also it requires continually adding to that position if the market moves in the direction of the trade. Since adding to positions raises the average price, the Turtles will often give back substantial profits on retracements and often be stopped out of a trade that rode a significant trend with no profit to show for it. While all trend traders play for the outlier, Turtles play for the outlier of the outliers—typically just one trend a year. How is it that they have the discipline to hold on to positions for so long, continually adding all the way? How is it that they can maintain this discipline after having watched so many profitable trades go bust? And how is that such a large percentage of the people Dennis taught were able to do this successfully when these qualities seem so rare?

The answer is that the Turtles learned very early the difference between a Good Trade and a Winning Trade and the difference between a Bad Trade and a Losing Trade. During the two-week training course, Dennis told the Turtles that he wasn’t evaluating them on whether they made money, but whether or not they stuck to the methodology. Since traders could lose money for long periods of time trading his method, it was especially important that they understand that as long as they took Good Trades, they would ultimately make money. Whether or not the trade was a Winning Trade was of no consequence. If these traders evaluated their performance in the short/medium term on profitability, they would have folded a long time ago.

For another example, let’s look at Mark Weinstein (also profiled in Market Wizards). Weinstein has an extraordinary win/loss ratio and has achieved this by being ultra-selective with his trades. As a result, Mark must necessarily pass on an enormous number of trades that subsequently go his way. What would happen to his trading if he lamented every missed opportunity and or lowered his standards every time he “missed” a trade so that it would meet his criteria next time? What would happen if he treated the next trade with a view to “not missing it this time?” I would imagine he’d be like the majority of the people—a losing trader.

Mark isn’t superhuman. He would probably lament the missed trade like anyone else if he actually saw it as a missed trade. But he doesn’t. Mark knows that his job is to take Good Trades. A trade not taken that ultimately “wins” doesn’t bother him because his final decision was that it wasn’t a Good Trade. Many rookie traders would beat themselves up about “missing a trade” and their trading would be negatively affected for the next series of trades, often disastrously.


Knowing the difference between a good trade and a winning trade, and a bad trade and a losing trade will be one of the most profitable, stabilizing, productive distinctions you will ever make in your career as a trader. For the rookie trader, “missing” a winning trade is more demoralizing than taking a losing trade. But by far the worst trade for a developing trader would be the Bad Winning trade. All it serves to do is reinforce behaviors that will ultimately ruin him/her. Many of the traders in Market Wizards made their greatest reforms after taking a disastrous Bad Losing trade. I really hope that all your Bad trades will be losers (though I don’t hope they’re as disastrous). Taking a Good/Bad trade is within your control, taking a Winning/Losing trade isn’t.

How do we best use this information?

1. Create a set of objective rules for determining what constitutes a Good Trade. If there is a discretionary range within the rules, and you were within the discretionary range, the trade is still Good.

2. By default, know that any trade that has yet to be classified as Good is Bad. If you’re still evaluating whether a trade is Good, it is still Bad. All trades are Bad until proven Good.

3. When you take a Good trade that loses, Stand Proud knowing you had the guts to take a small loss.


Last edited by David_R; March 23rd, 2013 at 03:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to David_R for this post:
 
  #48 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Jose, Ca
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Broker/Data: AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: Something moving
 
David_R's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,510 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 2,267 given, 2,371 received

Sorry, duplicate post


Last edited by David_R; March 23rd, 2013 at 03:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
 
  #49 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Jose, Ca
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Broker/Data: AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: Something moving
 
David_R's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,510 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 2,267 given, 2,371 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
The question of 'a daily goal' is interesting and i am wondering what those traders that attempt to pass a combine at topsetp think about this aspect and how they manage it. Do they set a daily goal or not?

Excellent question and since I have taken a couple combines I will give my 2 cents.

I think it's natural to say to ones self that if I do a 10 day combine with a 50k account and a profit objective of $3500 that I need to average $350 per day. It's actually a bit more with commissions. I think the problem in making $350 a day the goal limits ones potential when things are going well on a particular day. When I say things are going well I mean that whatever method one is using, and whatever rules are being followed seems to be in alignment with the market such that trades are getting good results. So, it makes sense to me to follow the plan and if that means the results provide $50 or even a small loss, so be it. Because in reality one or two good days could yield the $3500 or more.

D

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to David_R for this post:
 
  #50 (permalink)
Elite Member
Cincinnati Ohio
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Futures Broker
Favorite Futures: AUD
 
Silver Dragon's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,597 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 3,860 given, 3,318 received



trendisyourfriend View Post
The question of 'a daily goal' is interesting and i am wondering what those traders that attempt to pass a combine at topsetp think about this aspect and how they manage it. Do they set a daily goal or not?

I just finished up a combine and is what I found; if you try to reach a daily goal, which I did, you will have a very high probability of failing. There is a inherent conflict of interest between risk management and reaching a daily goal. Traders tend to sacrifice risk management when they are trying to reach a specific dollar amount per day. A better approach is to pick a combine based on what you are capable as a trader to consistently make.

My first combine was 100k which caused me to try to make 500 a day. After evaluating my trading at the end the combine I figured out that I am not capable of making 500 a day. What I am able to make is 75 to 150 a day with the occasional home run. Based on this I can reach the goals of a 30K combine without making any changes to my current trading style.

This provides me a edge going into the combine because I am not focused on how much I need to make; I am focused on trading and risk management.

Robert

nosce te ipsum

You make your own opportunities in life.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to Silver Dragon for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > A daily $ goal

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Linda Bradford Raschke: Reading The Tape

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

January

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Goal setting to increase profits? Laguna Emini Index Futures Trading 3 March 14th, 2013 11:56 PM
Cuts to Achieve Goal for Deficit, but Toll Is High Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 March 3rd, 2013 12:30 PM
Crawling before I can walk with goal of one day running devshell Trading Journals 11 May 9th, 2012 07:09 PM
Goal setting and the software which can help Gary Psychology and Money Management 7 June 12th, 2011 02:53 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:56 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-11 in 0.15 seconds with 19 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.226.113.250