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10,000 hours, really?
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10,000 hours, really?

  #41 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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BobKor View Post
I would just not reply anymore. Am I allowed to post the address for my journal? I just got a PM from someone that wants to see it and I can't reply because I am a newbie. lol

What does it add to the discussion, exactly?

Did it take you 10,000 hours to become profitable too?

My take on things is that most people spend a lot of time on things that don't move them forward. They don't have an understanding of the markets and they learn from books written by people that don't have an understanding of the markets.

When Malcolm Gladwell coined the 10,000 hours phrase, I don't think he was considering people that spent 5000 hours studying squiggly lines, getting tutored by bogus traders or generally trying to get educated from an industry riddled with snake oil merchants.

For instance, Massive spent 2 years on Ichimoku but it's not clear if he's still using that? If not, do we think this time fits into Malcolm Gladwells 10,000 hours?

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  #42 (permalink)
The Narrow Road
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DionysusToast View Post
ok then

let's say 8 hours of work, 8 hours of trading

2 hours to eat & wash etc.

That's 18 hours, leaving 6 for sleep.

For 4 years, this is an incredible sacrifice.

Sacrifice ...it is. However the rewards are quantifiable and the risks are controllable.

If you work a corporate job you are a pure taker of conditions, you don't even see all the risks and sometimes you have to work those hours.

Lets say it's 10,000 hours ... but then .. 10,000 of the right hours .. !

Practice makes perfect - but only the right practice.

10,00 hours of slamming your balls in the fridge door is really hard , both physically and mentally .. but it won't make you a world champion kickboxer!

What should you spend the 10.000 hours on ? Precisely?

podski

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  #43 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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BobKor View Post
Do not doubt Massive because he's telling you like it is.

I am not doubting anyone - don't put words in my mouth please.

If I don't believe someone, I will say it outright.

Massive is not telling it how it is, just how it was for him.

I spent a fair amount of time spinning the wheels when I started looking at trading. Mostly because I was looking at stuff that had nothing to do with trading at all.

Once I found people that could actually trade and that pointed me the way, the journey was fairly painless. It just was totally the opposite to what I was reading in books & most forums.

I actually have a lot of sympathy for anyone that puts 8 hours a day into learning how to trade on top of running a business. I think putting that much time into anything for so long is counter-productive.

You can only perform well for so many hours of the day, after all.

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  #44 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
ok then

let's say 8 hours of work, 8 hours of trading

2 hours to eat & wash etc.

That's 18 hours, leaving 6 for sleep.

For 4 years, this is an incredible sacrifice.

I think it boils down to passion.

I believe many people who get to the top do something like the above.

Many don't, which means either they get there from a longer path, artificially elongated by isolation to right kinds of stroking which are exposure-to-correct-methodology backing appreciation and also sadly fuelled by despair desire- to-be-rich desire-to-show-everybody-that-I-am-better-than-99-percent-of-you revenge-to-get-it-back (unlike a prop firm where it actually is your job and you go home with the same amount of exhilaration and/or remorse as any other working stiff who is paid on a similar scale).


Trading pulls and tugs every aspect of the human in you - for some it becomes the passion and purpose of their life and for others its stays a hobby. Who makes money? Now that is such a relative question starting from the station of your life, your ambitions, your relationship with money, your attitudes to hard work and finally what matters most to you (I know entrepreneurs who chose to sign business deals instead of being present at their daughter's births, by choice).

It is finally a game of give and take.

As with most worthwhile endeavours in life, and with life itself.

What is a mere 10,000 hours for some?

"10,000 hours, no way!" for others.

Markets reward newbies with billion dollars (think 2000s and dot com bubbles) and make paupers out of professionals (think Jesse Livermore and Victor Neiderhoffer).

Consistency, as in a day job when things are done correctly, reduces the hours ('work smart') but the starting point matters and then every step at every fork matters.

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  #45 (permalink)
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I don't work 8 hours and trade 8 hours...I sleep 8 hours every night, not 6.
If you were truly interested, you would ask a regular question
and wait for my response. Instead, your posts are filled with
assumptions, making for a very stupid conversation.

Psychology > Strategy ≥ Money
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  #46 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
I am not doubting anyone - don't put words in my mouth please.

Yet, you've done it with every post towards me. Ok!

Psychology > Strategy ≥ Money
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  #47 (permalink)
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iqgod View Post
I think it boils down to passion.

I believe many people who get to the top do something like the above.

I'm not so sure.

16-18 hours a day could be a sign of a serious obsession, not a healthy learning experience.

Not that this is necessarily the case with Massive. Just that throwing hours at something could be an obsession and certainly is not productive.

A look around these forums and you can see people that are totally obsessed with trading. I don't think this is a requirement for success.

I've been on tight schedule projects and still kicked people out of the office who'd pulled 12 hours and wanted to stay. You end up with diminishing returns when you put too much into something.

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  #48 (permalink)
The Narrow Road
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@DionysusToast

Is your point that learning to trade should be like learning to fly a plane.

It might be intensive, even intense from time to time, but it should be progressive, calm and controlled.

It does not have to be the grueling journey that many of us make.

ALthough I am toughing it out - I don't think it has to be this way. It is getting better since I started journaling properly and analyzing my trades properly and seeking assistance properly .. but I am still in the dark a little.

Can you outline the steps as you see them or as you took them .. ?

podski


Last edited by podski; February 20th, 2013 at 06:39 AM.
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  #49 (permalink)
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Massive l View Post
I don't work 8 hours and trade 8 hours...I sleep 8 hours every night, not 6.
If you were truly interested, you would ask a regular question
and wait for my response. Instead, your posts are filled with
assumptions, making for a very stupid conversation.

Ok - so when you spent 8 hours a day, 52 weeks a year, 4 years straight.

During How many hours were you spending per day on making a living?

How much time of that was wasted on learning how not to trade - you know on stuff that the industry pushes but has zero value? You mentioned 2 years on Ichimoku for example.

Looking back, if you could focus on the things that actually worked - how many hours do you think you would put in?

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  #50 (permalink)
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