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10,000 hours, really?
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10,000 hours, really?

  #21 (permalink)
The Narrow Road
Belgium
 
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podski's Avatar
 
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Not an MBA but an MBMT

I would be happy to co-ordinate doing research into a more structured curriculum development and bringing it into a solid form.

My first thoughts are:
1. Running a futures.io (formerly BMT) member focused survey
2. Included in this would be suggestions of prop firms or individuals to interview
3. Contacting prop firms with which we have good relations - TST springs to mind but there are others. The Germans have a few and there seems to be good knowledge here regarding them in the German speaking fora, I think that there are some in France and I'm sure that there are loads of firms in London that will speak to us. In China there are loads and loads of TST style firms. I can gladly speak with some of them.
4. If I come across any pearls along the way I can record them
5. Finally I would present the findings in PPT/ Webinar and XLS format
Just first thoughts.

Whaddya think?


podski

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  #22 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Massive l's Avatar
 
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A real, sustainable edge took me 5k hours. I didn't know for sure at the time
but I knew I was onto something. Looking back now I see it was around the 5k mark because
before that I traded ichimoku for 2k hours. So the total amount of time it took me from taking my
thoughts and theory on paper to my programming and developing my rules took arouind 3k.
Being able to trade it accordingly and over coming the psychological
pit falls that comes with trading took another 2-3k, for a total
of 7-8k in psychology alone. (Assuming psychology is part of the equation from the get go)
I've still not totally mastered it but I am doing well.

Psychology > Strategy ≥ Money

Last edited by Massive l; February 19th, 2013 at 03:58 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Bangkok
 
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Big Mike View Post
These people are not blank slates when they walk in the door though, are they? Even if they have zero experience trading, they do have life experience. Are they risk takers or risk averse? Are they leaders or followers? Do they have a grasp for the technical understanding needed in the markets?

Perhaps those people who are hired after 12 weeks have already spent a considerable amount of time on the "10,000 hour" path?

How many of the 10,000 hours needs to be spent specifically clicking 'buy' and 'sell' on the DOM? What about the life experiences or personality traits that you've developed I mentioned, how much time should be weighted or factored in for that in terms of prior experience?

Mike

Prop shops tend to favor people with no trading experience but they obviously look for other things in the trader.

I recall FT71 mentioning in a webinar that he looked for people with a competitive sporting background or other competitive endeavour...

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  #24 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Massive l View Post
A real, sustainable edge took me 5k hours. I didn't know for sure at the time
but I knew I was onto something. Looking back now I see it was around the 5k mark because
before that I traded ichimoku for 2k hours. So the total amount of time it took me from taking my
thoughts and theory on paper to my programming and developing my rules took arouind 3k.
Being able to trade it accordingly and over coming the psychological
pit falls that comes with trading took another 2-3k, for a total
of 7-8k in psychology alone. (Assuming psychology is part of the equation from the get go)
I've still not totally mastered it but I am doing well.

Can I ask how you actually made a living during this time?

5,000 hours equates to 2.5 years full time, which is more than most people could commit too.

The 7-8,000 hours in psychology alone is another 7.5 years full time, again more than most people could commit too.

This seems to me like a really, really long time.

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  #25 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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DionysusToast View Post
Prop shops tend to favor people with no trading experience but they obviously look for other things in the trader.

I recall FT71 mentioning in a webinar that he looked for people with a competitive sporting background or other competitive endeavour...

He also said he looks for risk takers. See other thread:
https://futures.io/psychology-money-management/26023-successful-traders-risk-taker-risk-averse.html

Mike

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  #26 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Big Mike View Post

OK - so in summary, tips for anyone going for an interview with FT71...

- Turn up in a track suit
- Try to steal a $20 from his wallet

Anyone add to this valuable list?

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  #27 (permalink)
Freemason
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DionysusToast View Post
OK - so in summary, tips for anyone going for an interview with FT71...

- Turn up in a track suit
- Try to steal a $20 from his wallet

Anyone add to this valuable list?

Might need some good cross training shoes to make it past secruity on the way out, but if you are going though all that you might want to get something bigger than a 20 for a better ROI

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  #28 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
OK - so in summary, tips for anyone going for an interview with FT71...

- Turn up in a track suit
- Try to steal a $20 from his wallet

Anyone add to this valuable list?

LOL, he is around now and then @FuturesTrader71 let's see if he responds.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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  #29 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Big Mike View Post
I'm starting the thread to encourage participation on this subject. Many people say you need "10,000 hours" of hands-on trading experience before you can become adept enough on the subject to be in a position to be any good at it.

Most people who work 40 hour work weeks in a "day job" work approximately 2,000 hours a year. This equates to roughly 5 years of experience to equal the 10,000 hour mark, if you put in 40 hours a week with 2 weeks off per year.

Thoughts?

Mike

Just about right @Big Mike. A freshly graduated engineer needs equivalent to 5 years of grunt work and experience before he can be taken seriously or be able to take the test to become a "Professional Engineer." And that is just to begin getting noticed and considered for worthy assignments that would require his PE stamp. Some industries will not even hire unless one has a PE and so many years of experience.

So, how else a room operator and self-proclaimed professional trader, educator/psychologist claiming to have over 40,000 hours of screen time can be taken seriously when she is not a P. MD, CMT, CFA, or holder of any one of the Series certificate.


Last edited by aligator; February 19th, 2013 at 07:10 PM.
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  #30 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
Can I ask how you actually made a living during this time?
5,000 hours equates to 2.5 years full time, which is more than most people could commit too.
The 7-8,000 hours in psychology alone is another 7.5 years full time, again more than most people could commit too.This seems to me like a really, really long time.

I put in over 40 hours a week for almost 4 years straight.
52 weeks in a year
x 40 hours
x 4 years
= 8320 hours

The first 2k I spent on ichimoku
The next 3k I spent programming a new method. That's the 5k.
My last 3k, I've spent perfecting my method.
I've worked on my psyche in regards to trading whether I realized it or not from the very beginning.

Psychology > Strategy ≥ Money
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