10,000 hours, really? - Psychology and Money Management | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


10,000 hours, really?
Updated: Views / Replies:26,695 / 205
Created: by Big Mike Attachments:4

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 100,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 4  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

10,000 hours, really?

  #21 (permalink)
Belgium
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker/Data: Ninjatrader Brokerage, CQG
Favorite Futures: FDAX, FDXM ...maybe
 
podski's Avatar
 
Posts: 380 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 458 given, 460 received

Not an MBA but an MBMT

I would be happy to co-ordinate doing research into a more structured curriculum development and bringing it into a solid form.

My first thoughts are:
1. Running a futures.io (formerly BMT) member focused survey
2. Included in this would be suggestions of prop firms or individuals to interview
3. Contacting prop firms with which we have good relations - TST springs to mind but there are others. The Germans have a few and there seems to be good knowledge here regarding them in the German speaking fora, I think that there are some in France and I'm sure that there are loads of firms in London that will speak to us. In China there are loads and loads of TST style firms. I can gladly speak with some of them.
4. If I come across any pearls along the way I can record them
5. Finally I would present the findings in PPT/ Webinar and XLS format
Just first thoughts.

Whaddya think?


podski

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
  #22 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Portland, OR
 
Trading Experience: None
 
Massive l's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,832 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 1,363 given, 3,240 received

A real, sustainable edge took me 5k hours. I didn't know for sure at the time
but I knew I was onto something. Looking back now I see it was around the 5k mark because
before that I traded ichimoku for 2k hours. So the total amount of time it took me from taking my
thoughts and theory on paper to my programming and developing my rules took arouind 3k.
Being able to trade it accordingly and over coming the psychological
pit falls that comes with trading took another 2-3k, for a total
of 7-8k in psychology alone. (Assuming psychology is part of the equation from the get go)
I've still not totally mastered it but I am doing well.


Last edited by Massive l; February 19th, 2013 at 03:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Massive l for this post:
 
  #23 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.jigsawtrading.com 
Bangkok
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts.NET, S5, Ninj
Broker/Data: AMP, S5, IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Jigsaw Trading's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,929 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 806 given, 10,131 received



Big Mike View Post
These people are not blank slates when they walk in the door though, are they? Even if they have zero experience trading, they do have life experience. Are they risk takers or risk averse? Are they leaders or followers? Do they have a grasp for the technical understanding needed in the markets?

Perhaps those people who are hired after 12 weeks have already spent a considerable amount of time on the "10,000 hour" path?

How many of the 10,000 hours needs to be spent specifically clicking 'buy' and 'sell' on the DOM? What about the life experiences or personality traits that you've developed I mentioned, how much time should be weighted or factored in for that in terms of prior experience?

Mike

Prop shops tend to favor people with no trading experience but they obviously look for other things in the trader.

I recall FT71 mentioning in a webinar that he looked for people with a competitive sporting background or other competitive endeavour...

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
  #24 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.jigsawtrading.com 
Bangkok
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts.NET, S5, Ninj
Broker/Data: AMP, S5, IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Jigsaw Trading's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,929 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 806 given, 10,131 received


Massive l View Post
A real, sustainable edge took me 5k hours. I didn't know for sure at the time
but I knew I was onto something. Looking back now I see it was around the 5k mark because
before that I traded ichimoku for 2k hours. So the total amount of time it took me from taking my
thoughts and theory on paper to my programming and developing my rules took arouind 3k.
Being able to trade it accordingly and over coming the psychological
pit falls that comes with trading took another 2-3k, for a total
of 7-8k in psychology alone. (Assuming psychology is part of the equation from the get go)
I've still not totally mastered it but I am doing well.

Can I ask how you actually made a living during this time?

5,000 hours equates to 2.5 years full time, which is more than most people could commit too.

The 7-8,000 hours in psychology alone is another 7.5 years full time, again more than most people could commit too.

This seems to me like a really, really long time.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Jigsaw Trading for this post:
 
  #25 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 47,685 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 30,403 given, 90,128 received


DionysusToast View Post
Prop shops tend to favor people with no trading experience but they obviously look for other things in the trader.

I recall FT71 mentioning in a webinar that he looked for people with a competitive sporting background or other competitive endeavour...

He also said he looks for risk takers. See other thread:
https://futures.io/psychology-money-management/26023-successful-traders-risk-taker-risk-averse.html

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member (see why)

Follow me on Twitter Visit my Facebook Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
  #26 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.jigsawtrading.com 
Bangkok
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts.NET, S5, Ninj
Broker/Data: AMP, S5, IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Jigsaw Trading's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,929 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 806 given, 10,131 received


Big Mike View Post

OK - so in summary, tips for anyone going for an interview with FT71...

- Turn up in a track suit
- Try to steal a $20 from his wallet

Anyone add to this valuable list?

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
  #27 (permalink)
Chicago, IL
 
Trading Experience: None
Platform: oil super computer
Favorite Futures: multiple
 
Posts: 193 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 597 given, 196 received


DionysusToast View Post
OK - so in summary, tips for anyone going for an interview with FT71...

- Turn up in a track suit
- Try to steal a $20 from his wallet

Anyone add to this valuable list?

Might need some good cross training shoes to make it past secruity on the way out, but if you are going though all that you might want to get something bigger than a 20 for a better ROI

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to mongoose for this post:
 
  #28 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 47,685 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 30,403 given, 90,128 received


DionysusToast View Post
OK - so in summary, tips for anyone going for an interview with FT71...

- Turn up in a track suit
- Try to steal a $20 from his wallet

Anyone add to this valuable list?

LOL, he is around now and then @FuturesTrader71 let's see if he responds.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member (see why)

Follow me on Twitter Visit my Facebook Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #29 (permalink)
Las Vegas, NV
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: Abacus, Slide Rule, HP-65, Metastock, TOS, NT
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
aligator's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,422 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 1,056 given, 5,833 received


Big Mike View Post
I'm starting the thread to encourage participation on this subject. Many people say you need "10,000 hours" of hands-on trading experience before you can become adept enough on the subject to be in a position to be any good at it.

Most people who work 40 hour work weeks in a "day job" work approximately 2,000 hours a year. This equates to roughly 5 years of experience to equal the 10,000 hour mark, if you put in 40 hours a week with 2 weeks off per year.

Thoughts?

Mike

Just about right @Big Mike. A freshly graduated engineer needs equivalent to 5 years of grunt work and experience before he can be taken seriously or be able to take the test to become a "Professional Engineer." And that is just to begin getting noticed and considered for worthy assignments that would require his PE stamp. Some industries will not even hire unless one has a PE and so many years of experience.

So, how else a room operator and self-proclaimed professional trader, educator/psychologist claiming to have over 40,000 hours of screen time can be taken seriously when she is not a P. MD, CMT, CFA, or holder of any one of the Series certificate.


Last edited by aligator; February 19th, 2013 at 07:10 PM.
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
  #30 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Portland, OR
 
Trading Experience: None
 
Massive l's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,832 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 1,363 given, 3,240 received



DionysusToast View Post
Can I ask how you actually made a living during this time?
5,000 hours equates to 2.5 years full time, which is more than most people could commit too.
The 7-8,000 hours in psychology alone is another 7.5 years full time, again more than most people could commit too.This seems to me like a really, really long time.

I put in over 40 hours a week for almost 4 years straight.
52 weeks in a year
x 40 hours
x 4 years
= 8320 hours

The first 2k I spent on ichimoku
The next 3k I spent programming a new method. That's the 5k.
My last 3k, I've spent perfecting my method.
I've worked on my psyche in regards to trading whether I realized it or not from the very beginning.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Massive l for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > 10,000 hours, really?

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)
 

Show us your trading desks and win $1,400 in prizes w/Earn2Trade

November
 

futures io is celebrating 10-years w/ over $18,000 in prizes!

Right now
 

$250 Amazon Gift Cards with our "Thanks Contest" challenge!

Right now
 

Effective & Expert Order Flow Strategies w/Scott Pulcini & Bookmap

Nov 21
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MeanBean's TST 10 ($150,000) Combine MeanBean Elite Trading Journals 6 November 18th, 2016 02:28 PM
Can a $10,000 investment yield $1,000,000 in a year? In five years? If so, what is th Mr III Psychology and Money Management 22 October 29th, 2012 03:00 AM
Return to Gold Standard? Why Price Would Hit $10,000 Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 October 13th, 2011 04:50 PM
Japan Fights Nuclear Disaster; Quake May Have Killed 10,000 Quick Summary News and Current Events 1 March 13th, 2011 02:41 PM
Trading small (sub $10,000) accounts Twiddle Traders Hideout 25 August 27th, 2010 12:21 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:47 AM. (this page content is cached, log in for real-time version)

Copyright © 2019 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts