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10,000 hours, really?
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10,000 hours, really?

  #91 (permalink)
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I read most of the thread... One thing that I haven't seen directly stated is the effect on coaching/having a mentor. I think the "10,000 hours" quote is legitimate for the average retail trader who is banging his head against the wall for years until it breaks, but if you have a mentor or someone who creates structure in your trading, I think the timeframe will be reduced

That is why Trading Firms can often get someone professionally trading in a matter of days/months sometimes... There is an inherent structure in many firms that I think is conducive to successful trading. For example, off the top of my head, many good firms often:
a) Force traders to define their set ups (no jumping from setup to setup)
b) Force traders have to approach trading like a job instead of a hobby (if you don't make money, you won't have a job)
c) Staff professional coaches that can see trading habits taking place that the new trader would not recognize without insight and tons of experience (10,000 hrs perhaps?)

There are more reasons, I am sure. Based on the successful people that posted in this thread, it appears that a large portion of the trading experience gained was about 'making beliefs stick' and personally creating a structure that allows them to partake in the market in a consistently profitable manner. I think an adept trading coach can shorten that timeframe

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  #92 (permalink)
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Well, let's see...

That's about 5 years of 40 hours a week.

To be unconscious and completely comfortable with trading? .... at least that much...

IMHO

The key is 10,000 hours to be a master at anything.

I would think that is the bare minimum.


AJ
Nashville, Tennessee


"Life On The Edge of SR"
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  #93 (permalink)
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If you are not trading at a professional level in 10k hours, then you should do something else.

Psychology > Strategy ≥ Money
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  #94 (permalink)
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Massive l View Post
If you are not trading at a professional level in 10k hours, then you should do something else.

Try Surfing.... It's good..

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  #95 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
There wouldn't be ANY professional traders anywhere if it took 5 years of full time commitment to get profitable.

Think about it people, how would a firm be able to survive if if they had to pay people for 5 years before they got a return?

You make several logical fallacies and bad assumptions.

First, just because the AVERAGE supposed learning time is 5 years, that doesn't mean someone can not be profitable after much less time. So yes, there still can be MANY profitable traders even if the average learning curve is 5 years.

Second, a firm can survive on commission and deskfees and who is to say that every trader started there? Not everybody is a newbie who trades at a prop firm...

And a firm is never going to advertise "Hey, it takes 5 years, but you might make it in 4!!"


GFIs1 View Post
2) To reach a university degree - it needs many years of experience and learning - to get the title and make the first money. If it would be so easy to learn trading within 3 (maybe 6?) months - the world would ONLY consist of traders ;-)


Exactly. Why would take making a person to be a professional trader less time then any other serious profession?


Last edited by Pedro40; March 4th, 2013 at 12:12 PM.
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  #96 (permalink)
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Bermudan Option View Post
I read most of the thread... One thing that I haven't seen directly stated is the effect on coaching/having a mentor. I think the "10,000 hours" quote is legitimate for the average retail trader who is banging his head against the wall for years until it breaks, but if you have a mentor or someone who creates structure in your trading, I think the timeframe will be reduced... ...

Sir Al Brooks tried this too! He sometimes tells the tale about when, in his early learning days, he hired a top trader, and flew him to Al's home in California for one-on-one training.

In addition to the cost of employing, transporting, and feeding the 'expert', he also lost another USD10,000 during their time together.

Nuff said about mentors, eh?

Richard
Hong Kong
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  #97 (permalink)
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tderrick View Post
... ...The key is 10,000 hours to be a master at anything.
I would think that is the bare minimum.

Well. learning to play Bach's Toccata and Fugue in Dminor on an organ as Bach intended, yes! For pro keyboard players, 10k hours is all about giving time for the brain and muscles to learn and work with unconscious competence.

But not anything. Trading does not really compare skill-wise.

Richard
Hong Kong
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  #98 (permalink)
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RichardHK View Post
Nuff said about mentors, eh?

Not really. One example (good or bad) doesn't make statistics, only invalid conclusions. Or maybe Al was bad at picking teachers. Or it was just overall a bad week for the mentor. Lots of variables...

Generally speaking a mentor would help tremendously as compared to figuring out for yourself, and the poster bringing it up was correct. With mentors, it is only 9900 hours...

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  #99 (permalink)
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RichardHK View Post
Sir Al Brooks tried this too! He sometimes tells the tale about when, in his early learning days, he hired a top trader, and flew him to Al's home in California for one-on-one training.

In addition to the cost of employing, transporting, and feeding the 'expert', he also lost another USD10,000 during their time together.

Nuff said about mentors, eh?

That sounds more like a life partner than a coach lol. Seriously though, when I say coach, I mean it in the most common sense, like a Phil Jackson or a Bill Bellichek... It sounds like Al was attempting to get a system he could copy initially instead of improving on an existing setup... but a good coach helps you improve on your personal skill set... Phil Jackson didn't teach Jordan how to shoot for example, he helped him mentally figure out when to shoot and when it hurts the team. A trading coach shouldn't teach you how to trade but rather the psychological lessons that we are often too biased to recognize

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  #100 (permalink)
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Massive l View Post
If you are not trading at a professional level in 10k hours, then you should do something else.


There is a difference between trading at a pro level and being a master. IMO


AJ
Nashville, Tennessee


"Life On The Edge of SR"
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