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How to uncover one's true desire for trading
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How to uncover one's true desire for trading

  #1 (permalink)
Learn to swim
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How to uncover one's true desire for trading

I reread an interview with Ed Seykota last night and it really struck home since I am in the midst of a losing streak. The quote is famous: "Win or lose, everybody gets what they want out of the market. Some people seem to like to lose...." He then goes on to discuss self-sabotage and how most traders don't realize they are doing it to fulfill some deeper need. Now, I truly do not want to be losing but my question is, how would you know if this condition is affecting you and how would you go about correcting it? Or is this all bogus (I tend to think not)? Thanks in advance.

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  #3 (permalink)
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Having suffered from something that meets the criteria at one stage I'd suggest the phenomenon is not bogus, may be related to a masochistic/nose out of joint/hurt feelings kind of thing. As you say the problem is recognizing we're suffering from it and I didn't really get past it until I started making money and experienced the "opposite" feeling. Now that I know how I should feel when the crybaby emerges I try to strong arm the correct state of mind into place.

Until we know what we're supposed to feel it's an uphill battle however. As A.N. Whitehead said in "Process and Reality"


Quoting 
“We habitually observe by the method of difference. Sometimes we see an elephant, and sometimes we do not. The result is that an elephant, when present, is noticed.”

Until we don't see the elephant we simply wonder why the room smells so bad

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  #4 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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SammyD View Post
How to uncover one's true desire for trading...

One word:

PASSION

Either one has it, gets it or forget about.
GFIs1

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  #5 (permalink)
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SammyD View Post
I reread an interview with Ed Seykota last night and it really struck home since I am in the midst of a losing streak. The quote is famous: "Win or lose, everybody gets what they want out of the market. Some people seem to like to lose...." He then goes on to discuss self-sabotage and how most traders don't realize they are doing it to fulfill some deeper need. Now, I truly do not want to be losing but my question is, how would you know if this condition is affecting you and how would you go about correcting it? Or is this all bogus (I tend to think not)? Thanks in advance.

Its real enough, and usually tied deeply in the subconscious to childhood experience. I fight with it all the time, like having two hands, the 'I know its wrong so i'll wait' hand and the 'too late I pressed the button anyway' hand.

Amongst many out there I found Denise Schull at TraderPsyches has collated some useful ideas and an approach that helps. This is from personal experience but still being new to futures.io (formerly BMT) I'm not sure if I break any mentioning vendors names rules by saying that?

Travel Well
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Learn to swim
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Yeah, I've read her most recent book. I'm still unsure which issues I have subconsciously Furthermore, I would be very interested in hypnosis if anyone has any suggestions in that department

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SammyD View Post
Yeah, I've read her most recent book. I'm still unsure which issues I have subconsciously

Right. And there's the rub.

E.g. I can make precision entries, and I mean precision. But can I hold them? Can I heck.

Now, was that because of what weird uncle did or that funny blue book I found on dad's bookshelf that said blindness or a downhill trip are the only outcomes of undeserved pleasure. Or my father being Sagitarius (Jupiter, expansive) and my mother Capricorn (Saturn, contracting) so me (Gemini, Monkey, Bipolar, Awesome.) Or just lousy genes. We may never know. Fortunately we may never care.

I do find the days when I feel 'intuitively in-tune' (and calm) as opposed to 'impulsively driven' (and manic (yes bipolar clinic visit at end of month)) make a big difference to bottom line. In fact have observed fascinating correlation between head 'fuzz' energy and market topsies. Untradeable though, and now walk away (incredibly sensible behaviour here, note to self.)

More interesting is the 100% correlation between incredibly profitable days (3-4 trades.) And really suck-awful losing days (30-40 trades.) Funny that.

I am 13 years into my journey. It has had many twists and turns. The Spanish Inquisition is never far away. I love it.

Travel Well
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  #8 (permalink)
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Keeping the thread on topic, there is def. a soul searching process that....wait for it.... never ends......

Without trying to add any religion on anyone, a couple things that have helped me are:

1)someone once told me in order to learn more about me, learn more about God.

2) Rick Warren's passion driven life book is pretty helpful

3) being in nature.....honestly, it wasn't until I did about a 9,000ft. hike and I sat on a rock and just listened to the wind....nobody was near me.....that was the first time I heard "wind"....and I felt a great peace knowing that I was in 100% pure nature. my mind was incredibly clear.

...a side note, I've found during my greatest obstacles that I do my deepest soul searching...



my journal is my best friend!

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  #9 (permalink)
Learn to swim
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That is a great book @lsubeano. I've read it many times.

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  #10 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
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this is subtle psychology problem that I called 'wrong kind of expectation'.

Show me any traders that don't want to lose...everybody want profits . THey all expect to win, they all want precise, calculated, scientific and perfect entries....

positive thinking, thinking big can help in OthER biz and money is big motivation , but this kind of 'wrong kind of expectation' cant help in trading

trading is about business that making fewer mistakes so that the correct things will take care of themselves.

Could traders avoid mistakes at all cost ? Again, nobody....

mimimises mistakes and forget about money, and you'll find that the market give you money even though you dont want it anymore.. you passed this gate/mental block and you will enter the zone. or zen of trading....

Trading is an art.


Last edited by bwasi; February 16th, 2013 at 01:26 AM. Reason: add
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