Need advice. - Psychology and Money Management | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Need advice.
Updated: Views / Replies:1,593 / 19
Created: by ReaM Attachments:0

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors – all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you don’t need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Need advice.

  #1 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Los Angeles
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: x_trader
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
ReaM's Avatar
 
Posts: 127 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 96 given, 95 received

Need advice.

Hello,

to make things shorter: I am a winning player but psychological problems intervene and ruin everything.
I have only one problem and I am sure most traders or maybe even all of them have that problem. I need to fix it as soon as possible or else I will never reach my goals.

I am a discretionary trader. When recognize some pattern that I saw before I would enter or put a limit order if I see the pattern earlier. So far so good. From that point on, I have little influence on what will actually happen with the price. Once the order is hit, that's it. But I ruin lots of trades by removing those orders (that were not hit) and I have no idea how to fix it.

Once the trade is opened I actually feel relaxed, but the biggest problem are pending orders. I remove them a couple of ticks before I actually would have the trade open. I rethink the situation and with usually the emotion of fear remove the pending order.

I did not make more than a thousand dollars last week, because I removed all my pending orders. It's a problem now.


What works so far:
  1. Standing up and going into another room and checking how position is doing from time to time. Same with pending orders. Last week I went to bathroom, came back I saw my pending order was gone and there was no position order. No struggle, no rethinking, no nothing. Easy win.
  2. I often meditate that one trade does not matter in a series of trades and that there still is a long way to go, thousands of trades.
  3. I convince myself that money does not matter.
But then, if I forget all that, everything reverses and I am removing those again.

I have stickers on monitor reminding me of my golas, of variance. I played a lot of poker, but it did not help so far. I don't have that same problem in poker. It's like I lost my balls, you know.

Maybe sports will help? I need a practical advice I guess. I have zero ego in markets. I need at least some so I can enter trades. How do I increase my ego? I noticed playing poker I have a lot of ego, I sometimes throw chips worst cards. That probably comes from not knowing what the right play is, so I rely on instincts to maybe try to scare the opponent. With markets it is the opposite, I know too much and chose very good trades, but something holds me back. Last 50 trades or so were all gold, but I did not take like 100 trades (most of which would end up winners).


Last edited by ReaM; August 28th, 2012 at 11:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to ReaM for this post:
 
  #2 (permalink)
Quick Summary
Quick Summary Post

Quick Summary is created and edited by users like you... Add FAQ's, Links and other Relevant Information by clicking the edit button in the lower right hand corner of this message.

 
  #3 (permalink)
Elite Member
Austin, TX
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: ninjatrader, r-trader
Favorite Futures: CL, NG, TF, NQ, YM, GC, ES
 
liquidcci's Avatar
 
Posts: 862 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 609 given, 1,051 received


The quickest way to solve that is to know the probabilities associated with each signal you take along with it's associated draw downs etc... At least that is the first step. If you don't know these things how can you have the confidence it takes to hold or enter a trade. Executing day in and day out is largely dependent on confidence not in yourself but in your stats. You don't need ego to be successful in the markets in fact ego will get you hurt but you do need confidence to execute. If you want to use sports analogy think baseball where things are largely done on stats. Once you know the probabilities you then have to learn to trust them which is essentially step two.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to liquidcci for this post:
 
  #4 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Los Angeles
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: x_trader
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
ReaM's Avatar
 
Posts: 127 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 96 given, 95 received

I am at step two.

I know I am profitable. But I still remove those orders. I trust my analysis. I need to overcome that somehow. I don't care about losing it all, but I care about making it where I want to be.

Reply With Quote
 
  #5 (permalink)
Elite Member
Austin, TX
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: ninjatrader, r-trader
Favorite Futures: CL, NG, TF, NQ, YM, GC, ES
 
liquidcci's Avatar
 
Posts: 862 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 609 given, 1,051 received

Do you just know you are generally profitable or do you have stats that you can really lean on going back for a couple of years for each signal you take? The more data and measurement you have for each signal the easier it is to lean on that data and execute your trades. If you have extensive data then that is where military style discipline comes in to learn to trust it. That is an area that took me quite a while to master and was a painful process. I think your approach to setting your pendings and then just walking away can be helpful. The less you stare at screen the better imo.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to liquidcci for this post:
 
  #6 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Los Angeles
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: x_trader
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
ReaM's Avatar
 
Posts: 127 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 96 given, 95 received

I am not one of those beginners hehe. I trade since 2008 and what I do has also worked in the 80s. I am very confident in my trading. But that's not about my ability, it's about skipping tades.

As far as I can understand myself, I feel confortable not taking a trade, because it probably decreases the variance. That is of course a stupid think to feel and to think, since I am not making money I should be. I don't want to earn a living, I want to become rich and what prevents me is that the risk (measured in number of trades) I take would not feel confortable any more.

That sucks I did everything I could and I can't

I watched "Fight Club" the other day, the scene "Let it go". Still does not help =) I really need to let it go and just take the goddamn trade.

I am 100% sure, if there was someone with a baseball bat standing next to me and hitting me each time I skipped a trade the problem would have been solved.


Yes, walking away is good, I never did it before with pending order (I ALWAYS do it with open trades). It came to mind when I wrote the first post today. Maybe I should try that.


Thanks for the following words. Very helpful. Exactly what I need.


liquidcci View Post
The less you stare at screen the better imo.



Last edited by ReaM; August 28th, 2012 at 12:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
 
  #7 (permalink)
Elite Member
Miami FL USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ensign 10, NT7 DOM
Broker/Data: IB, IQ
Favorite Futures: Currency Futures
 
Cashish's Avatar
 
Posts: 803 since May 2011
Thanks: 811 given, 2,103 received


ReaM View Post
........ but the biggest problem are pending orders. I remove them a couple of ticks before I actually would have the trade open. I rethink the situation and with usually the emotion of fear remove the pending order.

3. I convince myself that money does not matter.

But then, if I forget all that, everything reverses and I am removing those again.

I think you're 99.9% there, fear. The question is fear of what? Only you can answer that, but here's an exercise help you drill down to find your core issue. Get out a piece of paper and answer these 10 questions, be honest and you be surprised with the results.

1. Why do I pull my standing orders?
2. Why do I pull my standing orders?
3. Why do I pull my standing orders?
4. Why do I pull my standing orders?
5. Why do I pull my standing orders?
6. Why do I pull my standing orders?
7. Why do I pull my standing orders?
8. Why do I pull my standing orders?
9. Why do I pull my standing orders?
10. Why do I pull my standing orders?


"I convince myself that money does not matter," I believe this is a clue.
The fact is, money does matter, that's why risk management is so important.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Cashish for this post:
 
  #8 (permalink)
Elite Member
Milan (I)
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker/Data: Kinetick
Favorite Futures: FDAX,6E,CL,YM,NQ,ES
 
redratsal's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,653 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 1,217 given, 2,068 received

Have you ever thought transcripting your discretionary trading into a bot, It doesn't have to be the exact methodology but it helps:

1) Collect long historical and statistical data
2) Gain confidence
3) Compare discretionary vs mechanical

If removing your limit order is a one click easy/too often problem, you could build an indicator/strategy with some warning text (like are you sure you want to cancel limit order....), this would make the process more complicate and allow you time to re think your action, instead of simply clicking on your mouse. Besides, the main problem with changing your plan has to do with fear, and that is a very introspective and subjective process, no one can really give you advices, it has to come from you. Maybe writing a journal can help.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to redratsal for this post:
 
  #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
Germany
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: FlatTrader
Broker/Data: GFT and Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: ES, DAX
 
Posts: 531 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 2,121 given, 719 received


ReaM View Post
Hello,

to make things shorter: I am a winning player but psychological problems intervene and ruin everything.
I have only one problem and I am sure most traders or maybe even all of them have that problem. I need to fix it as soon as possible or else I will never reach my goals.

I am a discretionary trader. When recognize some pattern that I saw before I would enter or put a limit order if I see the pattern earlier. So far so good. From that point on, I have little influence on what will actually happen with the price. Once the order is hit, that's it. But I ruin lots of trades by removing those orders (that were not hit) and I have no idea how to fix it.

Once the trade is opened I actually feel relaxed, but the biggest problem are pending orders. I remove them a couple of ticks before I actually would have the trade open. I rethink the situation and with usually the emotion of fear remove the pending order.

I did not make more than a thousand dollars last week, because I removed all my pending orders. It's a problem now.


What works so far:
  1. Standing up and going into another room and checking how position is doing from time to time. Same with pending orders. Last week I went to bathroom, came back I saw my pending order was gone and there was no position order. No struggle, no rethinking, no nothing. Easy win.
  2. I often meditate that one trade does not matter in a series of trades and that there still is a long way to go, thousands of trades.
  3. I convince myself that money does not matter.
But then, if I forget all that, everything reverses and I am removing those again.

I have stickers on monitor reminding me of my golas, of variance. I played a lot of poker, but it did not help so far. I don't have that same problem in poker. It's like I lost my balls, you know.

Maybe sports will help? I need a practical advice I guess. I have zero ego in markets. I need at least some so I can enter trades. How do I increase my ego? I noticed playing poker I have a lot of ego, I sometimes throw chips worst cards. That probably comes from not knowing what the right play is, so I rely on instincts to maybe try to scare the opponent. With markets it is the opposite, I know too much and chose very good trades, but something holds me back. Last 50 trades or so were all gold, but I did not take like 100 trades (most of which would end up winners).

I had a likewise issue with removing stop loss orders or don´t setting them at all. I solved it by setting up a text to speech which reply every half hour. I use a free alarm clock tool which you can download here: http://http://freealarmclocksoftware.com/ Maybe it helps.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Abde for this post:
 
  #10 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
Ontario, Canada
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NT
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: gold
 
dario1's Avatar
 
Posts: 405 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 62 given, 52 received



ReaM View Post
Hello,

to make things shorter: I am a winning player but psychological problems intervene and ruin everything.
I have only one problem and I am sure most traders or maybe even all of them have that problem. I need to fix it as soon as possible or else I will never reach my goals.

I am a discretionary trader. When recognize some pattern that I saw before I would enter or put a limit order if I see the pattern earlier. So far so good. From that point on, I have little influence on what will actually happen with the price. Once the order is hit, that's it. But I ruin lots of trades by removing those orders (that were not hit) and I have no idea how to fix it.

Once the trade is opened I actually feel relaxed, but the biggest problem are pending orders. I remove them a couple of ticks before I actually would have the trade open. I rethink the situation and with usually the emotion of fear remove the pending order.


In your situation it's better to place a limit order with your pending limit loss/ profit orders and after that just go away from the computer.
This way you will let the market to decide either to take you out or make you a winner. And, market is always right.
D

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to dario1 for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > Need advice.

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
trade journal advice. shahab121 Traders Hideout 4 December 22nd, 2011 12:07 PM
Expert advice needed stone97 NinjaTrader 9 October 13th, 2011 11:52 AM
More marital advice kbit Jokes 2 July 19th, 2011 09:59 AM
Advice - joke kbit Jokes 0 June 10th, 2011 01:01 PM
Could you advice me on this DOM. gracepips NinjaTrader 1 March 27th, 2011 08:33 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:51 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-15 in 0.16 seconds with 19 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.226.132.197