What is Ego? - Psychology and Money Management | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


What is Ego?
Updated: Views / Replies:2,095 / 18
Created: by ReaM Attachments:0

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors – all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you don’t need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

What is Ego?

  #1 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Los Angeles
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: x_trader
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
ReaM's Avatar
 
Posts: 127 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 96 given, 95 received

What is Ego?

Can someone please explain me what ego is? All my life I thought it is the (false) feeling of being special and better than others, which in turn makes you act differently...

And now I've read this: Ego - What Is the Ego
...and it seems to be the opposite: Quote: "The ego prevents us from acting on our basic urges (created by the id), but also works to achieve a balance with our moral and idealistic standards"


So, for example in Market Wizards many say you can't have an ego as a trader, what do they mean by that?

Reply With Quote
 
  #2 (permalink)
Quick Summary
Quick Summary Post

Quick Summary is created and edited by users like you... Add FAQ's, Links and other Relevant Information by clicking the edit button in the lower right hand corner of this message.

 
  #3 (permalink)
Elite Member
Berlin, Europe
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, MultiCharts
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: Keyboard
 
Fat Tails's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,653 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 4,226 given, 25,602 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary





Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Fat Tails for this post:
 
  #4 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Francisco, CALIFORNIA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, IteractiveBrokers,TradeStation
Favorite Futures: Options, Dx
 
Posts: 23 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 18 given, 12 received

EGO

Hi Fat Tail,

Interesting subject.

I think EGO is something you identify with - for good or worse really.

So EGO can prevent you from fully manifesting your true self
EGO can protect you from harm, too.

But EGO is very Western to me. I am Japanese. So, I believe the true happiness come from letting go of EGO.

But the trick is You have to have EGO to let go. You can't let go what you don't have.

EGO can be a strength. Ego is healthy. Just don't get over identify with.

This is a deep topic...

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to luluchan for this post:
 
  #5 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Los Angeles
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: x_trader
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
ReaM's Avatar
 
Posts: 127 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 96 given, 95 received

Thanks.

Here Quotes from Market Wizards:

"Don't be a hero. Don't have an ego. Always question yourself and your ability. Don't ever feel that you are
very good. The second you do, you are dead."

"At other times in the past, investors lost a good profit by holding on too long, trying
to get a long-term capital gain. Some investors, even erroneously, convince themselves they can't sell
because of taxes—strong ego, weak judgment."

"When did you turn from a loser to a winner?
When I was able to separate my ego needs from making money. When I was able to accept being wrong.
Before, admitting I was wrong was more upsetting than losing the money."

"Most traders who fail have large egos and can't admit that they are wrong."

"Clearly, flexibility and suppression of ego are key elements of Gelber's success."

"Actually, the best traders have no ego. To be a great trader, you have to have a big enough ego only in the
sense that you have confidence in yourself."


Those two videos explain ego but I can't connect it with the ego in these quotes. What am I doing wrong? Does egotism has anything to do with ego? Was I right in my first post that the ego that is meant in these quotes is the one where one thinks he is better than others?

Or could someone give an example of a situation which is acted with and without ego? An example of the same trade taken by two traders one of whom has an ego and one without.
As I understood from the 1st video, I don't have the superego. I am free of moral rules. The reason I don't kill is more an investment choice. What's the point? What will it give me? Jail? Do I want it? I don't do stuff that does not make sense. Like going to clubs. What's the point to go there? Will it help me on my quest for world domination?^^ No, moving on...

Thanks!


Last edited by ReaM; May 11th, 2012 at 10:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to ReaM for this post:
 
  #6 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Francisco, CALIFORNIA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, IteractiveBrokers,TradeStation
Favorite Futures: Options, Dx
 
Posts: 23 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 18 given, 12 received

Egotism is not EGO (it is self senterdness)

Hi ReaM

Sorry I thought this thread was initiated by Fat Tail.

I can see your are quite confused... I am not very good at explaining those things buy my husband is. So, let me ask my husband if he can verborize it.

Well, in a nutshel, one can have very strong and healthy ego without being Egostatic.

Anyway, I will get back to this post later.

Take care,

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to luluchan for this post:
 
  #7 (permalink)
Elite Member
Berlin, Europe
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, MultiCharts
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: Keyboard
 
Fat Tails's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,653 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 4,226 given, 25,602 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


ReaM View Post
Thanks.

Here Quotes from Market Wizards:

"Don't be a hero. Don't have an ego. Always question yourself and your ability. Don't ever feel that you are
very good. The second you do, you are dead."

"At other times in the past, investors lost a good profit by holding on too long, trying
to get a long-term capital gain. Some investors, even erroneously, convince themselves they can't sell
because of taxes—strong ego, weak judgment."

"When did you turn from a loser to a winner?
When I was able to separate my ego needs from making money. When I was able to accept being wrong.
Before, admitting I was wrong was more upsetting than losing the money."

"Most traders who fail have large egos and can't admit that they are wrong."

"Clearly, flexibility and suppression of ego are key elements of Gelber's success."

"Actually, the best traders have no ego. To be a great trader, you have to have a big enough ego only in the
sense that you have confidence in yourself."


Those two videos explain ego but I can't connect it with the ego in these quotes. What am I doing wrong? Does egotism has anything to do with ego? Was I right in my first post that the ego that is meant in these quotes is the one where one thinks he is better than others?

Or could someone give an example of a situation which is acted with and without ego? An example of the same trade taken by two traders one of whom has an ego and one without.
As I understood from the 1st video, I don't have the superego. I am free of moral rules. The reason I don't kill is more an investment choice. What's the point? What will it give me? Jail? Do I want it? I don't do stuff that does not make sense. Like going to clubs. What's the point to go there? Will it help me on my quest for world domination?^^ No, moving on...

Thanks!


The first link you posted referred to the concept of "Ego" (Ich), "Id" and Super-Ego (Über-Ich), as developed by Sigmund Freud.

The concept of the ego as quoted from the market wizards is much simpler. Ego is the latin word for "I". If somebody has a large ego it means that this person is

-> big-headed
-> self-centered
-> complacent
-> presumptuous

A trader with a large ego thinks that he is right all the time, because he is convinced that his analysis is correct and therefore price must go up, if he thinks that price will go up. See that little film produced by @Big Mike.

https://futures.io/traders-hideout/19777-awesome-new-chart.html

That trader has a large ego and is sure that he is right, even after the market had ignored his analysis and moved into the opposite direction.


Markets a bipolar by design. At every moment the number of buyers equals the number of sellers. Therefore a trader who has not developed the habit of being right all the time, will be more successful to bow to the market and adapt to its changes.

Maybe these are the main differences between a beginning and a professional trader

-> the professional trader has an edge
-> the professional traders knows when he is wrong and needs to exit his position

The beginner has no edge and sticks to the position, even if it is hopeless, by false conviction (large ego) or because of loss aversion.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Fat Tails for this post:
 
  #8 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Los Angeles
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: x_trader
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
ReaM's Avatar
 
Posts: 127 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 96 given, 95 received

Thanks!!! A Big one!
It all finally all makes sense.

I am going to watch that little film now. The title already gives away what it is about
Thanks for taking time o explain.

Reply With Quote
 
  #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Diego
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Private
Broker/Data: private
Favorite Futures: CL future
 
Rachel's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,380 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 935 given, 1,949 received

my 2 cents


ReaM View Post
Can someone please explain me what ego is? All my life I thought it is the (false) feeling of being special and better than others, which in turn makes you act differently...

And now I've read this: Ego - What Is the Ego
...and it seems to be the opposite: Quote: "The ego prevents us from acting on our basic urges (created by the id), but also works to achieve a balance with our moral and idealistic standards"


So, for example in Market Wizards many say you can't have an ego as a trader, what do they mean by that?

As a trader: not to have ego, to me means, each day before you start to trade, the market is always right. It is going to do, what it is going to do and all we as traders can try and do, is read what the market is telling us, with out any preconceived concept.

We make a mistake if we project what we think it will do, what we want it to do or feel it will do from the past.
As a trader the best we can do, is try and think outside the box, where PA might go. and be flexible, to go in that direction etc.

They say Doctors and people who have been trained to always be right because human life is dependant upon their judgement, for this reason, they usually are not successful as a trader (if you are a doctor, please forgive me I do not mean any disrespect) because as a trader you can never always be right all you can do is know which set up has the highest probabilty for success.
If you have good risk to reward ratio, have developed some skills to reading the market, have good stops put in place and can live with not always having a profitable trade, you will be successful.

The markets humble us, we as a small individual compared to the majority of other people in the market, some being whales and big hedge funds, who can move and control the markets.

If you want to talk ego, I was getting a service of pit noise and it was helpful. He would let us know, when some big time traders would enter the pit and when he entered into a trade and the direction etc. One day the ES was falling dramatically, this big time trader entered the floor and started buying, buying, buying etc. He stopped the market from falling and as he did this, he raised his arms up the sky to gesture, he was holding the market up. Imagine the power he was feeling doing that!!! He had the funds to stop a falling ES.
Was that ego, I would say yes!
But he also had the funds and experience to be able to do that. We as small individuals, it is folly to think, we can do such things. Or to be so attached in the outcome of a trade, we can't let ourselves be stopped out, that is, I think part of having ego as a trader. Being stopped out, we may take a loss but it prevented us from being hurt further, if that stop wasn't in place. We can't always have profitable trades, all we can do is manage them properly to have small losses etc.

Ego can also stop you from being profitable as a trader. Maybe you only like to short because you think this economny is going to H____ and the market rallies for a month and the whole time you try shorting it when you should be buying the pullbacks. In this scenario, the stongly held belief system is affecting the traders ability to see what is really going on and costs either being stopped out, or only making a small profit and missing the big moves etc.

So, the more we can become egoless, flexible in our mind and not have a preconceived direction the market is going in, the better we will be as a trader.

Ego as a trader can also be, we think trading is like playing an electronic game: enter a trade without a set up or proper understanding of PA etc.

There are a lot of skills to develop as a trader and if we thought, we didn't need to learn stuff that would be having ego.

The best traders are always learning about the market and about themselves. I remember I was studying with one guy who was kind of uneducated, kind of proud of his southern down to roots mentality, he could be vulger and was proud of it. As a person he wasn't someone you would be impressed with. As I studied with him, he amazed me. He knew his set ups and did his trades mechanically. Sometimes he was right and sometimes he was wrong but when the market trended he was all over it very intensely. So, I would see how he would kick into high gear when the market trended; He would click his entry button like a rabbit, tttttttttt would go those entries. When he felt unsure of the market, he would cut down his contract size and be conservative.
Now I thought OK, this guy has got his trading down but then he kept growing, he continued to do his set up, but he went and learned options, which he felt were from the devil. Image that, something he was adverse too for years and he opened himself up to learning about them! He just kept learning about himself and his business of trading.

He also loved to trade GC, which he came up with a set up and he would tweak it to improve it etc.
I remember him saying, everytime he put on a trade, inside he was scared like a little girl.
Image a big grown man admitting that: that is a trader without ego, he is just being honest and honest with himself and observes himself and from there he grew and grew and grew. Last time I checked in, he was a multimillionaire and still expanding.

So, as a spiritual being in a physical body, we will always have an ego, it is all about how flexible you are, how humble you are and to grow and not be right all the time.

I consider trading to be one of the biggest teachers because we are always learning about what we did wrong and how to improve that and how we need to change and grow to accomplish our goals. If you can't do that, you won't be successful as a trader and the plus side, as a human being we expand and grow and I consider trading to be very spiritual because it sheds light on who we are and from there we become better traders and better people etc.

Wishing you the best,

Rachel


Last edited by Rachel; May 12th, 2012 at 09:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to Rachel for this post:
 
  #10 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Los Angeles
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: x_trader
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
ReaM's Avatar
 
Posts: 127 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 96 given, 95 received


Thank you for this amazing post.

Yes, that's always my theory too, market is going to do what it is going to do. If it goes 30 ticks against me, then I am not going to think, ok, it is still possible to win 10 ticks. The probability of it moving 40 ticks my way is way too small in some situations. If the experience tells me this thing is falling, then no reason to hold onto trade.

I am also scared as hell when I open the position. I don't have a problem admitting it, but I would if I were younger. What helps is actually standing up and trading standing in front of computer. Otherwise my actions can result in closing the position too early.

Thanks you everyone, I am sure I don't have ego. That's good news. I always get out when I am wrong. But I don't have trouble trading against the trend or averaging down, if I count it as a separate trade.


I start to believe, the reason this forum is so great, is because most of futures.io (formerly BMT) traders don't have an ego. Look at other forums, how much of the prediction, of what price is going to do of how great someone is stuff there is. You won't find on futures.io (formerly BMT) someone saying: "why the hell did you enter there? The price clearly was going to go up!"


Last edited by ReaM; May 12th, 2012 at 10:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to ReaM for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > What is Ego?

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Trader Ego eudamonia Psychology and Money Management 17 September 2nd, 2011 05:38 PM
Sometimes when you check your ego at the door...good things happen RM99 Psychology and Money Management 2 April 1st, 2011 01:34 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:37 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-17 in 0.20 seconds with 19 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.163.209.109