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Trading Psychology and How The Mind Works (III)
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Trading Psychology and How The Mind Works (III)

  #21 (permalink)
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George View Post
Have you guys ever heard of, fear of success?
Isn't that one of the biggest enigmas and ironies that's out there?
It's like trading right! I mean how crazy is that?

I do want to make money, I love money, I love trading! But I'm still loosing money.
What we're experiencing here is a conflict between the conscious mind and the subconscious mind.

Remember, who the real you is! You're actually the sum of all your programming. Funny thing right? We got a lot of programmers in here!
So, being the sum of all your programs, and by the fact that your subconscious mind has the role of protecting you. There you got it!
It doesn't allow you to make money. Because somewhere in the programs you've got a bad experience that has a negative charge, and it keeps holding you back from getting hurt "again".

For instance let's say that you've been brought up by your parents (and they by their own parents), with a small simple value, such as "In order to earn money, you have to work hard".
It has probably been put there, somewhere between the age of 0-7. After that it has been amplified every time you've been in and out of social contexts containing those values.
Unfortunately, our parents becomes parents without getting any instruction manual on how to raise kids, plus that we have the social construction as well in the picture.

What does all this lead to?
Your parents are starting to train you in order to fit into the social construction. By doing that, they forget about unconditional love, and they start to introduce two things, punishment and reward.
They punish us when we're not following their instruction and reward us when we do as we're told. The kind of reward we get is, acceptance.
When we get that acceptance, we then fulfill one of our basic needs. Remember?; the need for security.

That creates here an association, with an equation that says "In order to earn money, you have to work hard" equals "SAFETY".
We grow up, and start to work, and eventually we find out that, working hard equals earning money. And the safety need is fulfilled.

No problems here right?
Everybody's happy !

Til you get into situations that can make you money easy, without having to work hard. That's when you blow it!
Take trading for instance. You've gone all the way. You've gone through all the phases (learning, experience, indicators etc). You're a complete trader. But you're still loosing money! By now, trading is easy for you. Doing it is easy, acting upon it is easy.

Suddenly we've got a new equation into play. "Earning money is easy" equals "NOT TRUE". Why? We do not want the money!
Life is not about money. Life is about safety. We live in societies, that has told us that we can reach safety through money. Money is just a tool, nothing else.
We want safety, and if that isn't met by the information we got in our subconscious minds we do whatever there's in our power to go for that.
And if the real you is, the sum of all your programs, there's simply no place for that there!

Scary thing right! It scared the hell out of me, the first time I realized that's the way things are working. I refused to buy the concept. And it took me a while before, I finally had the courage to face it, and to understand that, it doesn't matter how I take it or perceive it, by my conscious mind. The subconscious plays the lead here.
And no matter how much I refused to accept that, it wasn't that way. That I do love money, and that money is easy to earn, and that I love being all that trading is giving me. It just laughed back at me by decreasing my account.

Do you now understand how fear of success works and why it works that way? This was of course a very basic example. Every case is unique with it's own ingredients, but manly is built on the columns explained above.

In the next article, I'll write about what to do about it. Hang in there guys, there's hope!

To be continued...

DEAR ALL

SHARKS IN OUR LIFE

The Japanese have always loved fresh fish. But the waters close to Japan
have not held many fish for decades. So to feed the Japanese population,
fishing boats got bigger and went farther than ever. The farther the
fishermen went, the longer it took to bring in the fish. If the return
trip took more than a few days, the fish were not fresh. The Japanese did
not like the taste.
To solve this problem, fishing companies installed freezers on their
boats. They would catch the fish and freeze them at sea. Freezers allowed
the boats to go farther and stay longer. However, the Japanese could taste
the difference between fresh and frozen and they did not like frozen fish.
The frozen fish brought a lower price. So fishing companies installed fish
tanks. They would catch the fish and stuff them in the tanks, fin to fin.
After a little thrashing around, the fish stopped moving. They were tired
and dull, but alive. Unfortunately, the Japanese could still taste the
difference. Because the fish did not move for days, they lost their
fresh-fish taste. The Japanese preferred the lively taste of fresh fish,
not sluggish fish.
So how did Japanese fishing companies solve this problem? How do they get
fresh-tasting fish to Japan?
To keep the fish tasting fresh, the Japanese fishing companies still put
the fish in the tanks. But now they add a small shark to each tank. The
shark eats a few fish, but most of the fish arrive in a very lively state.
The fish are challenged.
Moral:
Have you realized that some of us are also living in a pond but most of
the time tired & dull, so we need a Shark in our life to keep us awake and
moving? Basically in our lives Sharks are new challenges to keep us active
and taste better...


REGARD
STAR


__________

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  #22 (permalink)
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Adapted for Traders

Become a Trading Legend.


It's not about the money.

It's about knowing.... where you're going.
Not forgetting where you started.
It's about having the courage to fail.

Not breaking....when you are broken.

Taking everything you have been given, and making something better.
It's about work.....before glory, and what is inside of you.
It's doing what they say you can't.

It's not about the money.
It's about what you do with it.
It's about being....who you were born....to be.

I know what is within me, even if you can't see it yet.

I will become what I know I am.

Look me in the eye.

It's ok if you're scared.
So am I.
But we're scared for different reasons.

I'm scared of what I won't become, and you're scared of what I could become.

Look at me. I won't let myself end where I started.
I won't let myself finish where I began.
I know what is within me, even if you canít see it yet.

Look me in the eyes.

I have something more important than courage.
I have PATIENCE.
I will become what I know I am."

I've missed thousands of trades in my career
I've lost hundreds of thousands of dollars
Many times Iíve been trusted to take the big trade and lost
I've failed over and over and over again in my life
That is why I succeed.

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  #23 (permalink)
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hello everybody.....

well , im also 100% sure so that most of the mistakes we make by trading or all the failure in trading is caused by subconsciousnes mind ....
i just add some links to interesting articles....

YouTube - Quantum Factor Featuring Dr. Joe Dispenza (What The Bleep?)

YouTube - Joseph Dispenza, Quantum Physics 1 of 3

Interview with Joe Dispenza

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  #24 (permalink)
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geronimo72 View Post
hello everybody.....

well , im also 100% sure so that most of the mistakes we make by trading or all the failure in trading is caused by subconsciousnes mind ....
i just add some links to interesting articles....


I'm sure the subconcious mind is one of my biggest problems . I ordered Joe
Dispenza's book and am thinking about doing a 10 day meditation at this
place .(Blank ,not enough posts yet,sorry) . Ten days of silence , just meditating
12 hours a day ( 3 or 4 hours at a time ) will quickly bring up a lot of subconcious
issues . I could be wrong , but I think this the same type of thing Joe D . is
talking about . Thanks for the links .

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  #25 (permalink)
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hi break out ,
doesn t mather what you do as long as you practice...i m happy to see someone takes action too...well, i started too , with reiki energi..karuna reiki....i use symbols karuna reiki to activate new programs in my subconscious.....i ll see how it goes by me , there is no problem to send this energy in space and time to anyone so might get in touch with some of you and do things......
i realized the same thing as big mike says , our chart are O.K. , we need to concentrate to our business plan and strategy.... good luck to everybody...don t stop working...don t give up

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  #26 (permalink)
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hi every one
the books that inspired me :
dan millman - the way of the peaceful warior
james redfiels - celestine prophercy
luise hay - heal your live
marlon morgan - Mutant Message Down Under
shanya roman - live with joy
movies ,many of them..........
rogue trader
wall street
secret
what the bleep do we know
what the bleep do we know, down the rabbit hole
the last samurai


help your self......


also do exercise now and here.....be avare of every movement you do....if you do your coffe, be avare of taking water in a can...be avare of waiting the watter being boiled....be avare of puting coffee in youe cup..................be avare

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  #27 (permalink)
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George View Post

In my opinion in order to imply Maslow into all this, we're programed with a lot of fear, that gives birth to the need for safety/security (hence M scale of needs). That's why I choose to describe money as a tool, as a reflection of security being met by it. I hardly think that people wake up every day with the need of going to their day to day work with a conscious thought of ""mmm I'm going to contribute today to my community, society etc." They do it based on fear of loosing ones security. No money, no food on the table roof over the head etc. etc.


cclsys View Post
George, good reply.

In terms of Maslow (which I have never studied), my impression from long ago is that the first level is that of survival, and then you go up and up into more status and then spiritual priorities. And money can be related at most if not all of them. At the initial level it may well be about survival. But later on it might not, so the fear-greed responses to trading will be greatly influenced by that context.

If one is in desperate straits trading a $5,000 account from credit card money and hoping to pay the bills or be faced with ruin in 3 months, this is very different from being a multimillionaire day trading 3 cars in the emini once or twice a day to experiment, study risk-reward paradigms and so forth. So the same money is quite different depending upon situation/perspective.

George - I have enjoyed these topics so far! While I think you have a lot of great info in these threads, I think cclsys's interpretation of Maslow is more in tune. His highest level is Self Actualization....which would be one's mental/phys/emotional peak. I feel that the best traders (and also others who are at the top of their industry/profession/etc.) have reached this level and contribute to society based on their want to "give back" or "pay it forward", not fear. There is no fear of loss at this point - make sense? However, I do think there are people who "give" in order to lose that fear, but these people are definitely not Self Actualized people.

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  #28 (permalink)
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Thanks from a "Newbie"

Hi George, hi everybody,

I am very new to this forum, in fact I just registered about an hour ago.
It was recommended to me by a friend who's been a trader for many years.

I have noticed an increased interest in these issues, however I have zero experience. So I asked him what would be a good place to start and learn, and amongst other things he recommended this website.

So, the first thing I do is browse through the forum and I stumble upon this thread on trading psychology, and I'm flabbergasted and totally surprised.

George, everything your write is totally true and totally clear to me. However, I did not expect to find any comments like this on a website for trading. And I love all the comments and it's exciting to see how you're dealing with these "soft" issues.

That really makes me want to learn even more quickly.

If any of you has some ideas or suggestions, where I could start my learing process? My friend said that this book has been recommended to him, but he hasn't read it yet: Psychology,Trading Tactics,Money Management (Wiley Finance) by Alexander Elder. Does anyone know it? what do you think about it?

Or maybe there are some of you out there who would like to share their learing experiences.

I'd be grateful for any feedback.

thanks and greetings from sunny Berlin
Christine


George View Post
Have you guys ever heard of, fear of success?
Isn't that one of the biggest enigmas and ironies that's out there?
It's like trading right! I mean how crazy is that?

I do want to make money, I love money, I love trading! But I'm still loosing money.
What we're experiencing here is a conflict between the conscious mind and the subconscious mind.

Remember, who the real you is! You're actually the sum of all your programming. Funny thing right? We got a lot of programmers in here!
So, being the sum of all your programs, and by the fact that your subconscious mind has the role of protecting you. There you got it!
It doesn't allow you to make money. Because somewhere in the programs you've got a bad experience that has a negative charge, and it keeps holding you back from getting hurt "again".

For instance let's say that you've been brought up by your parents (and they by their own parents), with a small simple value, such as "In order to earn money, you have to work hard".
It has probably been put there, somewhere between the age of 0-7. After that it has been amplified every time you've been in and out of social contexts containing those values.
Unfortunately, our parents becomes parents without getting any instruction manual on how to raise kids, plus that we have the social construction as well in the picture.

What does all this lead to?
Your parents are starting to train you in order to fit into the social construction. By doing that, they forget about unconditional love, and they start to introduce two things, punishment and reward.
They punish us when we're not following their instruction and reward us when we do as we're told. The kind of reward we get is, acceptance.
When we get that acceptance, we then fulfill one of our basic needs. Remember?; the need for security.

That creates here an association, with an equation that says "In order to earn money, you have to work hard" equals "SAFETY".
We grow up, and start to work, and eventually we find out that, working hard equals earning money. And the safety need is fulfilled.

No problems here right?
Everybody's happy !

Til you get into situations that can make you money easy, without having to work hard. That's when you blow it!
Take trading for instance. You've gone all the way. You've gone through all the phases (learning, experience, indicators etc). You're a complete trader. But you're still loosing money! By now, trading is easy for you. Doing it is easy, acting upon it is easy.

Suddenly we've got a new equation into play. "Earning money is easy" equals "NOT TRUE". Why? We do not want the money!
Life is not about money. Life is about safety. We live in societies, that has told us that we can reach safety through money. Money is just a tool, nothing else.
We want safety, and if that isn't met by the information we got in our subconscious minds we do whatever there's in our power to go for that.
And if the real you is, the sum of all your programs, there's simply no place for that there!

Scary thing right! It scared the hell out of me, the first time I realized that's the way things are working. I refused to buy the concept. And it took me a while before, I finally had the courage to face it, and to understand that, it doesn't matter how I take it or perceive it, by my conscious mind. The subconscious plays the lead here.
And no matter how much I refused to accept that, it wasn't that way. That I do love money, and that money is easy to earn, and that I love being all that trading is giving me. It just laughed back at me by decreasing my account.

Do you now understand how fear of success works and why it works that way? This was of course a very basic example. Every case is unique with it's own ingredients, but manly is built on the columns explained above.

In the next article, I'll write about what to do about it. Hang in there guys, there's hope!

To be continued...


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  #29 (permalink)
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Christine007 View Post
Hi George, hi everybody,

I am very new to this forum, in fact I just registered about an hour ago.
It was recommended to me by a friend who's been a trader for many years.

I have noticed an increased interest in these issues, however I have zero experience. So I asked him what would be a good place to start and learn, and amongst other things he recommended this website.

So, the first thing I do is browse through the forum and I stumble upon this thread on trading psychology, and I'm flabbergasted and totally surprised.

George, everything your write is totally true and totally clear to me. However, I did not expect to find any comments like this on a website for trading. And I love all the comments and it's exciting to see how you're dealing with these "soft" issues.

That really makes me want to learn even more quickly.

If any of you has some ideas or suggestions, where I could start my learing process? My friend said that this book has been recommended to him, but he hasn't read it yet: Psychology,Trading Tactics,Money Management (Wiley Finance) by Alexander Elder. Does anyone know it? what do you think about it?

Or maybe there are some of you out there who would like to share their learing experiences.

I'd be grateful for any feedback.

thanks and greetings from sunny Berlin
Christine


Christine,

Welcome to the forum! It's a great place to be and Mike has done an AMAZINGLY FABULOUS job creating this scene. The guy is a noble soul!!! You have plenty of material to enrich yourself with, try to go by the different categories and go on from there.

Try to avoid the classical trap and look for the Holly Grail by searching for the perfect system. There is no perfect system out there. But there's a system that will fit you well, and in order to get there try to understand the psychology of trading. So starting by reading as many trading psychology books as possible is a good start. Make sure you read the big guys like Mark Douglas etc....Dr Elder is good too!

We all struggle to make tomorrow look like yesterday!
Get rid of your past and let the future unfold from the now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
/George
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  #30 (permalink)
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recommendations


thanks a lot, George.
That sounds like a good idea, to start my journey with trading psychology!

I'll let you guys know how I'm getting on.

regards,
Christine


George View Post
Christine,

Welcome to the forum! It's a great place to be and Mike has done an AMAZINGLY FABULOUS job creating this scene. The guy is a noble soul!!! You have plenty of material to enrich yourself with, try to go by the different categories and go on from there.

Try to avoid the classical trap and look for the Holly Grail by searching for the perfect system. There is no perfect system out there. But there's a system that will fit you well, and in order to get there try to understand the psychology of trading. So starting by reading as many trading psychology books as possible is a good start. Make sure you read the big guys like Mark Douglas etc....Dr Elder is good too!


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