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The market is not out to get you
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The market is not out to get you

  #1 (permalink)
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The market is not out to get you

The market is not out to get anyone.

The market is going to do what it it is going to do. It is not against anyone nor does it cooperate with anyone. It just does what it does.

Once in a trade wishing, hoping, talking to it will do nothing to change the outcome. Accepting that allows you to relax.

The market is not for you or against you. Accept it, live it, breathe it and you will be a better trader.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #3 (permalink)
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Not sure about that CCI...they 'boys','algos' have been gunning for stops since day one.

I counteract that by making sure the Oscillator breaks free from the zero line from a safe distance then jump in.

The zero line is the key to PA and everything at the right time frame.
Reversals,countertrends,chop,trends.

4 Years of banging my head being active trader taught me this....


' Accept it, live it, breathe it and you will be a better trader.' +1

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sunil patel View Post
Not sure about that CCI...they 'boys','algos' have been gunning for stops since day one.

I counteract that by making sure the Oscillator breaks free from the zero line from a safe distance then jump in.

The zero line is the key to PA and everything at the right time frame.
Reversals,countertrends,chop,trends.

4 Years of banging my head being active trader taught me this....


' Accept it, live it, breathe it and you will be a better trader.' +1

There are stops at every price level. So many people doing so many different things. There might could be an argument made for those who use what the crowd uses being targeted by the algos. I don't use crowd techniques so my comments were biased in that regard.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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sunil patel View Post
Not sure about that CCI...they 'boys','algos' have been gunning for stops since day one.

I counteract that by making sure the Oscillator breaks free from the zero line from a safe distance then jump in.

The zero line is the key to PA and everything at the right time frame.
Reversals,countertrends,chop,trends.

4 Years of banging my head being active trader taught me this....


' Accept it, live it, breathe it and you will be a better trader.' +1

You dang tootin' they do... I didn't realize how good they were at it until they started gunning my stops while I was in SIM ... so I started paper trading ... with real paper and a pencil... they STILL gunned my stops... Greedy Bastards.....

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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liquidcci View Post
The market is not out to get anyone.

The market is going to do what it it is going to do. It is not against anyone nor does it cooperate with anyone. It just does what it does.

Once in a trade wishing, hoping, talking to it will do nothing to change the outcome. Accepting that allows you to relax.

The market is not for you or against you. Accept it, live it, breathe it and you will be a better trader.

Yes it bl00dy is!
As the market can be characterized as the sum of all participants (- humans and algos designed by, yep, humans) parts of the market are certainly out there to get you, that's the name of the game.
I am certainly out there to 'get' people, at the end of the day it's a zero sum game (yep, i know, commissions...)so I'll have to take the money I make out of other traders accounts...
So, if no one else is, I am out there to get you if you make bad decisions (and vice versa)

vvhg

Hic Rhodos, hic salta.

Last edited by vvhg; March 8th, 2012 at 01:11 PM.
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vvhg View Post
Yes it bl00dy is!
As the market can be characterized as the sum of all participants (- humans and algos designed by, yep, humans) parts of the market are certainly out there to get you, that's the name of the game.
I am certainly out there to 'get' people, at the end of the day it's a zero sum game (yep, i know, commissions...)so I'll have to take the money I make out of other traders accounts...
So, if no one else is, I am out there to get you if you make bad decisions (and vice versa)

vvhg

Wrong perception. Big guys don't even know though you are there if small. If they did they would not even care. Premise it is a zero sum game on an individual trade is false. I could go long and you could go short against my trade and we both make money or both lose. The market is zero sum in sense there are winners and losers but on a trade by trade basis it is not zero sum. If I did lose and you won you took nothing from me because we both get out of trade at different times based on stops and targets. We were not competing with each other just happened to match entries on opposite sides.

Thinking it is out to get you or will cooperate with you is wrong approach as it personalizes the market which will bring emotion in. Emotion and trading bad mix.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."

Last edited by liquidcci; March 8th, 2012 at 01:33 PM.
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
You dang tootin' they do... I didn't realize how good they were at it until they started gunning my stops while I was in SIM ... so I started paper trading ... with real paper and a pencil... they STILL gunned my stops... Greedy Bastards.....


How did they gun for your stops in SIM? You don't even have a trade in real market so algos can not see you. Even if you were live would be to small for them to see or even care.

Treating market like it out to get you or refuses to cooperate with you is the wrong approach.

Not saying algos never run stops at certain inflection points at different times. But if get stopped that is most likely not what happened.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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liquidcci View Post
Wrong perception. Big guys don't even know though you are there if small. If they did they would not even care. Premise it is a zero sum game on an individual trade is false. I could go long and you could go short against my trade and we both make money or both lose. The market is zero sum in sense there are winners and losers but on a trade by trade basis it is not zero sum. If I did lose and you won you took nothing from me because we both get out of trade at different times based on stops and targets. We were not competing with each other just happened to match entries on opposite sides.

Thinking it is out to get you or will cooperate with you is wrong approach as it personalizes the market which will bring emotion in. Emotion and trading bad mix.

Personalizing the market is not the same as recognizing that it is out to get you, IMO. The market is not out to get you personally but my opinion is that the earlier post is correct in that the market is a group of people all making decisions to take money from other participants. In this sense, I am out to get you, TMFT is out to get you and you are out to get me.

The perception that "big guys don't know you're there" is incorrect in the sense that it reinforces the viewpoint (expressed here) that you are not playing in the same game as the big boys (albeit someone trading 500 lots does not "actually" know YOU are there in a literal sense). Another example similar to the one I used in that post is that if you place a trade for 1 contract in the ES and you get stopped out for a 5 tick loss, that is no different (ie, the market mechanics are, for the most part, identical to) than a "big guy" getting stopped out for a 5 tick loss on 100 contracts.

Within the restrictions due to liquidity, you can place your trade anywhere you want, for any direction you want, and hold your trade for as long or short as you want. This is the same playing field the "big guys" are playing on. Thinking of yourself as a "small guy" is counterproductive because the underlying truth is that you can use the same tactics, orders, stops, targets, etc (within the limits I recognized here) as anyone else in the market.

You are in the same game - if you make money it is because you took money from someone else, if you lost, you lost to someone else. Thinking of the market as a big nebulous cloud is not accurate although it may provide a supplicant against the fact that if you cannot consistently win over time you simply need to get better (better system, better "feel", better approach, better MM - whatever).

Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty. - Frank Herbert
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Surly View Post
Personalizing the market is not the same as recognizing that it is out to get you, IMO. The market is not out to get you personally but my opinion is that the earlier post is correct in that the market is a group of people all making decisions to take money from other participants. In this sense, I am out to get you, TMFT is out to get you and you are out to get me.

The perception that "big guys don't know you're there" is incorrect in the sense that it reinforces the viewpoint (expressed here) that you are not playing in the same game as the big boys (albeit someone trading 500 lots does not "actually" know YOU are there in a literal sense). Another example similar to the one I used in that post is that if you place a trade for 1 contract in the ES and you get stopped out for a 5 tick loss, that is no different (ie, the market mechanics are, for the most part, identical to) than a "big guy" getting stopped out for a 5 tick loss on 100 contracts.

Within the restrictions due to liquidity, you can place your trade anywhere you want, for any direction you want, and hold your trade for as long or short as you want. This is the same playing field the "big guys" are playing on. Thinking of yourself as a "small guy" is counterproductive because the underlying truth is that you can use the same tactics, orders, stops, targets, etc (within the limits I recognized ) as anyone else in the market.

You are in the same game - if you make money it is because you took money from someone else, if you lost, you lost to someone else. Thinking of the market as a big nebulous cloud is not accurate although it may provide a supplicant against the fact that if you cannot consistently win over time you simply need to get better (better system, better "feel", better approach, better MM - whatever).

Surly have high degree of respect for your opinion but on this we will have to disagree. Even if the big fish know a small trader is there they do not really care. I am not saying the algos never target spots where alot of ordes sit etc. But I think most of the time that is not the reason an order gets stopped. There are just so many players in the market doing so many different things it is hard to draw a direct correlation to I am out to get you you are out to get me. At the end of the day there are winners and losers. But my winners cannot be directly be correlated to any one particular persons loss nor my losers directly correlated to any particular persons winners. So in that since it is a cloud but within that cloud there are trends. We can both be opposite side of a trade and both win or both lose because we are both doing different things and most likely have different exits.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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