What is a reasonable return - Psychology and Money Management | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


What is a reasonable return
Updated: Views / Replies:16,140 / 117
Created: by SammyD Attachments:5

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 5  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

What is a reasonable return

  #51 (permalink)
Elite Member
New York, NY
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart, thinkorswim
Broker/Data: Amp-Rithmic/TT, IB
Favorite Futures: CL, GC, NQ
 
Posts: 569 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 1,797 given, 249 received


patbateman View Post
Yes. Drawdown. This leverage is never fully used with directional bets.

So on lugopt's point, considering draw down, leverage, and risk management, how does one calculate how much leverage is effectively used, and how one can expect this to impact returns?

Reply With Quote
 
  #52 (permalink)
Fiddler
Nashville, TN
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: NQ ES
 
Posts: 468 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 323 given, 542 received


Futures Operator View Post
So on lugopt's point, considering draw down, leverage, and risk management, how does one calculate how much leverage is effectively used, and how one can expect this to impact returns?

How I look at leverage is pretty basic. If the instrument you are trading moves 0.5% and your account moves 2%, then your leverage factor is 2% / 0.5% = 4. If you are trading multiple instruments then it gets more complicated, but just knowing this is basic risk preparation. It lets you know what you are in for if a catastrophic event occurs while you are in a trade.

Ex. Trading with leverage factor of 5 and no stop...go long and overnight your market craters 5%. You just lost 25% of your account. If that was in your risk profile, then fine. If you weren't expecting that as a possible outcome, then you were not using proper risk management.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Luger for this post:
 
  #53 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bratislava, Slovakia
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart, NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: NQ, YM, ES
 
Pepe2000's Avatar
 
Posts: 91 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 11 given, 108 received


I will just repeat myself, but I will try once again. I read lot of stuff even from most experienced traders with which I disagree. Forgive my arogance, but I am allways trying to make my own decisions. That is why I allways suggest to make a backtest and papertrade for a while. If you papertrade long enough with a system (not just monkey style clicking) you will soon find out what is the system capable of. The difference between the real money and papertrade is mostly your psychology. So if there is a huge difference, you know what do you need to work on (there are also other things like slippeage but this is not the thing which makes difference).

I think we are mixing apples and oranges here. You cannot have the same expectations as swing trader trading 1mil. account, doing 3-6 trades per month and daytrader trading his small 20k account with 1-5 trades per day. Totaly different approaches, different amount of time invested, different account, different risk. IMO uncomparable.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Pepe2000 for this post:
 
  #54 (permalink)
Elite Member
NY, NY
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: T4, NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: All!
 
patbateman's Avatar
 
Posts: 235 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 113 given, 193 received


Futures Operator View Post
So on lugopt's point, considering draw down, leverage, and risk management, how does one calculate how much leverage is effectively used, and how one can expect this to impact returns?

Although this can become very complex, it is acceptable to limit the drawdown to be _ % of your account. So if you have a $20,000 account, and a 40% drawdown, that 40% will be $8,000. Use that to calculate your leverage.

"A Jedi's strength flows from the force."
-Yoda
Reply With Quote
 
  #55 (permalink)
Elite Member
Edmonton, Alberta
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB
Favorite Futures: nq
 
Posts: 55 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 27 given, 57 received

I think if you are day trading futures or stocks and not aiming for 10% per month (a very high goal), you shouldn't be day trading.

If you are (only) looking for 3 to 5 percent per month, there are easier and less stressful methods than day trading - by finding a good theta decay options strategy. Check out some of the strategies by well-respected options mentors like Dan Sheridan or John Locke ( a lot of info is freely available, although they have mentoring services too). Positive theta, monthly strategies allow for good returns without being tied to your screen 24/7.

These strategies are especially good for those who still have regular jobs.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to gfmatt for this post:
 
  #56 (permalink)
Elite Member
Edmonton, Alberta
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB
Favorite Futures: nq
 
Posts: 55 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 27 given, 57 received

Oh, and one more thing. These types of options strategies are highly scalable (on big indexes like SPX or RUT).

On Tastytrade, they recently highlighted a retired 50+ year old woman who started trading one type of positive theta strategy with $100,000. Due to her success, friends asked her to manage some money for them, and now she is running a $100 million + fund, running the same relatively simple premium selling strategy.

You can check out her interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BquDGE9KxZQ&feature=plcp

Reply With Quote
 
  #57 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
Columbus Ohio
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Posts: 34 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 6 given, 15 received

I really don't mean to troll on this, but........


I personally believe that mfbreakout can come close to $500 a day with 10k on 2 cl cars.


But the missing links are the steel 50lb balls and years of pure dedication. Straight truth for the newbs mike.

-Dave Krupar

Reply With Quote
 
  #58 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.traderrach.com 
Auckland, New Zealand
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: MetaTrader
Broker/Data: Pepperstone
Favorite Futures: Forex
 
TraderRach's Avatar
 
Posts: 21 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 8 given, 26 received

Focus on a Solid Foundation, then Look to Achieve the Return

The $ amount you make is highly correlated with how much $ you're prepared to lose. The more you risk, the more you can gain (or lose).

% return can be very misleading. With highly leveraged products you don't need to hold all the funds of your trading capital in your trading account and the % return of your trading account can be very high.

Once you have a very good system and very good trading skills (a solid foundation), a goal is to increase the amounts you are trading to make it worthwhile and meet your financial objectives.

The amount you trade should be appropriate for the skills you have as a trader. Trading too high an amount too early will give you unnecessary stress and take the focus off building a solid foundation.

I think the $ you make trading is more important than the % return. A high % return on a small number still equals a small number. The focus should be on making trading pay for a great lifestyle.

Cheers Rachel

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to TraderRach for this post:
 
  #59 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Lima Peru
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader
Favorite Futures: EUR/USD
 
Posts: 5 since Nov 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

the historical data tests and forward demo tests may not mean much as markets change and so do you...i try to stick to shorter term goals - weekly and monthly...

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to ba2012 for this post:
 
  #60 (permalink)
Elite Member
Singapore, Singapore
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Amibroker
Favorite Futures: ES, Stocks
 
Posts: 7 since May 2012
Thanks: 9 given, 0 received


Found this thread while looking for the answer to the question. So was there any conclusion on this?

Sounds like most people think 10% is not reasonable, but that has been touted in almost every futures course that i've come across.

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > What is a reasonable return

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Linda Bradford Raschke: Reading The Tape

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

January

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Believe In A Return To The Gold Standard? You Are Now Officially An Extremist kbit News and Current Events 1 February 7th, 2012 06:38 PM
Flash Crash Threatens to Return With a Vengeance Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 December 30th, 2011 07:40 AM
Hopes Grow for Return to Confidence in Europe Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 December 8th, 2011 07:30 AM
IceCap Asset Management: The Return Of The Dollar Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 November 23rd, 2011 03:10 AM
locate a reasonable priced NT coder philkurin NinjaTrader Programming 4 June 16th, 2011 05:03 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:00 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-11 in 0.13 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.82.79.109