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The ugly truth about leverage, margin and our markets
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The ugly truth about leverage, margin and our markets

  #21 (permalink)
Elite Member
Battle Ground, WA
 
Futures Experience: Master
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kbit View Post
In an effort to get this back on topic , you could see if Tradestation might suit your needs.

Thank you kbit. I have looked at Tradestation and it is not for me.

I use Multicharts and will be writing my own FIX based iPad app to trade with.

My research has led me to a broker that I feel comfortable opening an account with(that will assist with my risk management needs) so I suppose the saga ends here.

 
  #22 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Lornz View Post
You might want to take a look in the mirror, partner. Posters on this board usually have a friendly tone, but every once in a while we get guys like you. Maybe if you would refrain from attacking esteemed posters using vulgar language, I would be more inclined to treat you with respect.

Well, partner, with all due respect, your esteemed colleague attacked my character with libel and called the statements that I made false. Guys like me only get like this, when guys like you think they are big chit. You are not as great as you think you are Lornz and you know absolutely nothing about me.


Lornz View Post
A simple stop will solve your problems. You're creating problems that don't exist.

If you don't realize the folly of this statement, then I hope you never do.


Lornz View Post
If you have your broker set your max loss to 60% of your account, there still has to be a market there. The broker will just initiate a market order when that amount is reached...

You are still missing the point. The entire point of my post was that *in my (perhaps limited) research, I had not found a broker who was willing to do this at any point other than 100% margin usage.* It is EXTREMELY unwise to leverage in a 500:1 when there is no protection like that, because if something goes haywire and the position continues to move against you, nothing will happen until you are bust.

I don't want to trade with a broker that has that policy, do you?


Lornz View Post
Alas, I'm just a pathetic poseur... Hopefully I'll become a "real" trader like you someday!

Lornz, I couldn't agree with you more, partner. Perhaps someday you'll become as good a poseur as you are a trader. I know it's hard, but you're trying and that's all that counts. :-)

 
  #23 (permalink)
Elite Member
Sydney, Australia
 
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Wow.

Dunning Krueger anyone?

The following 2 users say Thank You to Twiddle for this post:
 
  #24 (permalink)
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Twiddle View Post
Wow.

Dunning Krueger anyone?

Another attack? Thanks buddy, way to keep it on topic.

 
  #25 (permalink)
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DarkPool View Post
Another attack? Thanks buddy, way to keep it on topic.

Not an attack. A recognition of a perfect example of a very interesting psychological phenomenon.

 
  #26 (permalink)
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Twiddle View Post
Not an attack. A recognition of a perfect example of a very interesting psychological phenomenon.

So you are saying this is something you see in yourself? It does not exist in me.

And how is this relevant, on topic or helpful to the discussion?

 
  #27 (permalink)
Elite Member
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DarkPool View Post
So you are saying this is something you see in yourself? It does not exist in me.

And how is this relevant, on topic or helpful to the discussion?

Those who are interested will know where it applies on this thread.

It is off topic with regard to leverage for sure. However it is rare we get to see such a stunning example, I thought it would be interesting to point out.

Carry on being a "master" trader and dispensing your knowledge to the rest of the "non real traders", who have tried to help you.

 
  #28 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
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DarkPool View Post
Well, partner, with all due respect, your esteemed colleague attacked my character with libel and called the statements that I made false. Guys like me only get like this, when guys like you think they are big chit. You are not as great as you think you are Lornz and you know absolutely nothing about me.

You're right, I was being disrespectful. However, I would be tempted to claim the same about you. You start off by proclaiming erroneous assumptions as facts, and then you attack the posters who try to help you correct your faulty views. If you'd only asked nice, I am sure many would try to help you in a respectful manner.

As @Fat Tails said, we are all just trying to steal each other's money. It is the nature of a zero-sum game...


Quoting 
If you don't realize the folly of this statement, then I hope you never do.

I honestly don't know how to respond to that, we are apparently living in different universes.


Quoting 
You are still missing the point. The entire point of my post was that *in my (perhaps limited) research, I had not found a broker who was willing to do this at any point other than 100% margin usage.* It is EXTREMELY unwise to leverage in a 500:1 when there is no protection like that, because if something goes haywire and the position continues to move against you, nothing will happen until you are bust.

I don't want to trade with a broker that has that policy, do you?


If you're leveraging 500:1, you are going to go bust either way. It is extremely unwise to use that kind of leverage regardless of stops. If you are a businessman, you would be wise to avoid bucket shops.

My point was that, unless you have too many/complex positions to monitor, a stop will to the trick. In fact, in many instances, the two are equal. If the account's value drops by the set amount (40%, e.g.) the broker liquidates your position using a market order. For a single position (as you used in your example), that would be the equivalent of you placing a stop market order at the same price. I don't know how I can make it any clearer than that.


Quoting 
Lornz, I couldn't agree with you more, partner. Perhaps someday you'll become as good a poseur as you are a trader. I know it's hard, but you're trying and that's all that counts. :-)

If I ever become as good a poseur as I am trader, then - lord, help us all - I will be unstoppable!

 
  #29 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Twiddle View Post
Those who are interested will know where it applies on this thread.

It is off topic with regard to leverage for sure. However it is rare we get to see such a stunning example, I thought it would be interesting to point out.

Carry on being a "master" trader and dispensing your knowledge to the rest of the "non real traders", who have tried to help you.

I suppose you'll carry on rummaging around these boards insulting and doing no good for anybody. Bravo!

Who has tried to help me? only kbit and cw30000. The others, including yourself Twiddle, only attacked. How are these people helping me by ignoring (or not fully reading) what I said and then flying off and attacking me about something that is not cogent to the point I was making?

Just to be crystal clear, I have never professed any trading proficiency, or made any statements about my level of profitability(except for a few journal posts here on futures.io (formerly BMT))on the internet or IRL(except to my wife and partners.) I don't do that. It doesn't matter, that was not what the post was about and the fact that you brought it up tells me you have jealousy issues or just can't control your malicious tendencies one of the two.

You may be here to try and become a better trader, I am not. Not that I am not trying to improve my style(or that it can't be improved), but I don't get anything related to that from here. I don't give two squats if anyone around here thinks I am the ultimate trader or that I blow up accounts daily. Reality is the only truth and it will never live on this forum.

If you can't understand that my post had absolutely nothing to do with my ability(or lack of) as a trader, then you may want to take a refresher course on how to read american english. The post said nothing about bad trade decisions, it was 100% about managing risk when "events" occur and systems/humans do not perform as they normally do.

Is there anyone who read what I wrote and understood that what I was talking about is risk management and not bitching and whining about "bad brokers?" Should I change the thread title to "My search for a risk management futures/forex broker?"

I'm growing tired of this... Perhaps I'll stop beating this horse now.

 
  #30 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Futures Experience: Master
Platform: Multicharts DT & MBT Desktop Pro
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Lornz View Post
If I ever become as good a poseur as I am trader, then - lord, help us all - I will be unstoppable!

What happens when an unstoppable object meets irresistible force? You might be humbled.

I'm out. Good trades to all and hopefully there are some intelligent people out there that will get what I said and understand it. If not, oh well, I tried.


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