SIM to LIVE trading for traders with history - Psychology and Money Management | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


SIM to LIVE trading for traders with history
Updated: Views / Replies:2,868 / 14
Created: by greenr Attachments:0

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors – all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you don’t need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

SIM to LIVE trading for traders with history

  #1 (permalink)
Elite Member
london/england
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra charts, NinjaTrader, VK Trader
Broker/Data: CQG, AMP, VK, Kinetick
Favorite Futures: CL/6E/TF/ES
 
Posts: 952 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 562 given, 1,267 received

SIM to LIVE trading for traders with history

Hi ladies and gents

As per the above title

I was curious to know how you other traders over come you fear in the markets

1. After bad past experiences
2. Every trading day

So

No1. basically when i 1st started tarding and went live and blew my 1st account...as you do
how did you guys over come that fear you get left with after such experience

I over come this by continious practice is SIM untill i felt conftiable again, but still i had such big issuse when going back on my live account. As soon as my dome was live with white back ground (on Ninja trader) i would literally start to shake and sweat. This 1 made me unconfident and neverious and 2 affected my reactions and decisions when trading

No2. Every day still when i trade, in the process of starting my computer up and start getting ready for work. I still feel these emotions kick in. That nervous feeling and a light sweat, like when you going on a 1st date or you doing some thing you dont feel confident doing. Even tho i have been trading for a few years now i still get this gut feeling every day

So i wanna know how you guy going about solving these issues

I help this by having the same routine every day, i get up turn my computer on, have breakfast and start my morning routine ect

once i have done my 3000 million step morning routine and prep and i am ready to trade, i then switch off global simulation and set my DOM to my live accounts

i now feel confident and ready for what every the market throws at me

Then once i exacute my trade, if i start 2 get nervious and start feeling my emotions kick in. I turn my music up and try to stay focoused on the market and not my position

This helps me alot

BUT....i have found in the past, once things go wrong

its like a steady slop up with a vertical drop down..i have not been in that situation for a while now, but im sure you all know exacly what im talking about

DIGGING your self a hole, once you make a small error and let you emotions jump in. Literllay you can start a vicious circle of mistakes were you start revenge trading

So i was curious how you guy and gals cope with this pressure this job brings and how you manage your fear and emotion in these times


Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to greenr for this post:
 
  #2 (permalink)
Quick Summary
Quick Summary Post

Quick Summary is created and edited by users like you... Add FAQ's, Links and other Relevant Information by clicking the edit button in the lower right hand corner of this message.

 
  #3 (permalink)
Elite Member
Portland, OR
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: tos
Favorite Futures: NQ, SB, 6J, CL, GC
 
Massive l's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,458 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 922 given, 1,822 received


Honestly, my emotions in sim and the transition to live were very similar...a wreck.
I treated my sim trades as if they were live.
I know that's not the usual for people but I don't like losing money, even if it's fake money!
I don't like losing period but with time you come to accept it's part of the game.
You win, you move on. You lose, you move on. You're going to lose money at first and you may for
a while. I know an extremely talented programmer (one of the best on the internet that many people follow) that
has not been profitable for 3 years now.

I would catch myself being affected by the trade so I simply would tell my mind to
'let the system do that work....let the system do the work'. That seemed to calm my nerves
and take a step back. If you give your brain instructions, it will follow them.

If you're feeling seriously uncomfortable about a trade, then you probably shouldn't be in it.
Get back in when you have a clearer head.

Before you get in a trade, you have to know when you're getting out, whether it be positive
or negative. Simply having a solid trading plan should chill your emotions as well.
This is a business. Treat it like so. You need to have everything written out; a foundation,
that will be adjusted as you hone your skill with more efficient and profitable ways of doing business.

Psychology > Strategy ≥ Money
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Massive l for this post:
 
  #4 (permalink)
Elite Member
cologne, europe
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: jforex, ninjatrader, t4-trader
Broker/Data: dukascopy, ninjatrader/cqg
Favorite Futures: fairly traded ones
 
CFuture's Avatar
 
Posts: 219 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 315 given, 182 received

What worked for me after having had a severe 30% hit on my account (too big position size with too much ego after a very successful month): Checking setups papertrading again, just dabble around with no expectancy. Then practice how and when to get in and out with your normal risk management rules/contract/ordersize you would apply to your live account .

After success start with the smallest ! position size trading your real money again (micro contracts or less in spot forex) to overcome fear. Grow, but not overleverage to sizes you can´t handle yet, again.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to CFuture for this post:
 
  #5 (permalink)
Elite Member
Honolulu, Hawaii
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: ATC/TT, AMP/Zen-Fire, AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: TF
 
bluemele's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,547 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 3,806 given, 2,826 received

Like Ichibomb, I too don't like to 'lose' haha...

However, I did what so many others do on sim. Well, it is fake right...

To me, if you can't papertrade profitably, then move to sim profitably then to live profitably than you are just making your broker rich.

I can papertrade miraculously well.

I can sim trade (about break even lately).

When I would take the dip to live (a year ago+) then I would just eat at my account slowly.... I didn't like that...

I realized that emotions were my issue and that if I could not have a hefty 'gap' or 'margin' in my profits then I most likely would continue to let the emotions eat me into negativity again.

Now, I absolutely treat it like real money even on SIM. I find every few weeks that I fall out of that, but it is rarer and rarer.

To me, if you are having an issue on LIVE, than you are trading too much margin or trading scared money. For now, I have scared money and that is part of the reason I do not go live. I have some big $'s coming soon, but for now, I have scared money...

So, if you have the following then I would go live:

Papertrade profitably
Sim Trade Profitably w/ Margin of mental error
Live trade breakeven to positive (will give you positive momentum to do more)

Than your training wheels will slowly come off... Just my opinion.

Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to bluemele for this post:
 
  #6 (permalink)
Elite Member
desert CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, TOS
Broker/Data: AMP/wCQG, TDA
Favorite Futures: CL,YM
 
Posts: 2,027 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 2,211 given, 1,551 received

If I trade futures on sim, on Ninjatrader it's the same way I trade live. If I lose on sim I get very despondent and a overall loss on a session makes me feel as I know nothing about trading for the rest of the day, just the same as on live. Sure the "pain" of losing on sim is less than losing real money.

Sure I've fooled around adjusting the sim with a million account and trading 50-100 contracts for fun and not worrying about margin calls but only for fun usually trading replay at 10x to 200x playback speed.

But when there's a live market during a liquid period going on, I find it hard to resist playing the sim like real. Then I set the sim account to the same amount as my live account and sim off the live charts. Because I believe my poorest performance on sim reflects my poorest performance on live. To the point I get scared playing sim almost as much as live.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Cloudy for this post:
 
  #7 (permalink)
Elite Member
Honolulu, Hawaii
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: ATC/TT, AMP/Zen-Fire, AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: TF
 
bluemele's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,547 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 3,806 given, 2,826 received


Cloudy View Post
If I trade futures on sim, on Ninjatrader it's the same way I trade live. If I lose on sim I get very despondent and a overall loss on a session makes me feel as I know nothing about trading for the rest of the day, just the same as on live. Sure the "pain" of losing on sim is less than losing real money.

Sure I've fooled around adjusting the sim with a million account and trading 50-100 contracts for fun and not worrying about margin calls but only for fun usually trading replay at 10x to 200x playback speed.

But when there's a live market during a liquid period going on, I find it hard to resist playing the sim like real. Then I set the sim account to the same amount as my live account and sim off the live charts. Because I believe my poorest performance on sim reflects my poorest performance on live. To the point I get scared playing sim almost as much as live.

I feel the same way. Losing a couple grand isn't that big of deal really. But, doing it day-in, day-out and just the overall disgusting feeling of being wrong is what sinks me...

My worst trade is -85K. That was painful for me and something I wish to never repeat.. I have several in the 20K-30K range and many below that, but that one stands out in my only time I think that I felt the money concern me to an extreme.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to bluemele for this post:
 
  #8 (permalink)
Elite Member
london/england
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra charts, NinjaTrader, VK Trader
Broker/Data: CQG, AMP, VK, Kinetick
Favorite Futures: CL/6E/TF/ES
 
Posts: 952 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 562 given, 1,267 received

The most i have every lost in 1 trade live is $6,500 and that hurt. God know how i would deal with a $30,000 loss!!

i now only keep the minimum in my account now, so if i do happen to go on a emotional downwards spiral, my losses are minnimal

i am only trying to make $300-500 a day 1 contract

1 target 1 stop loss

my theory behind this is...if i can make $300-500 a day consistant

1 day i will trade the exact same method but used 10 contracts 1 target 1 stop

so that $300-500 a day will become $3,000-$5,000 a day

a nice living if you ask me :-D

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to greenr for this post:
 
  #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
Honolulu, Hawaii
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: ATC/TT, AMP/Zen-Fire, AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: TF
 
bluemele's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,547 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 3,806 given, 2,826 received

Yes, the key of course is consistency. Your goal is my first step as well to build some credibility and consistency.

It is all relative and smart to keep the minimum in your account also considering the brokers these days...

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to bluemele for this post:
 
  #10 (permalink)
Elite Member
desert CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, TOS
Broker/Data: AMP/wCQG, TDA
Favorite Futures: CL,YM
 
Posts: 2,027 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 2,211 given, 1,551 received


Sorry to hear about those losses. I got margin called so was forced to get hit with a loss which halved my account. I was using way too many contracts. Because I got overconfident and was making 1k to 3k a day for about a month. So it's definitely possible once one gets to a consistent level. And there are stories of those who make much more per day all over trading forums. But I had not prepared myself psychologically for a big loss at the number of contracts I was overdoing. ;

Yes, now I would agree psychological consistency is my main goal. Also knowing when to get out and when not to trade. I am thinking about trading until a daily profit goal. Then trading sim the rest of the day for practice. But the temptation to continue to trade live is enormous at that point Then after a big loss , there's a lot of fear to overcome to trade live again.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Cloudy for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > SIM to LIVE trading for traders with history

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Automated DayTrading: Market Replay vs. Live SIM. Why are results different? Turtrend Elite Automated NinjaTrader Trading 8 February 21st, 2014 01:52 PM
How to setup sim using live data? MoreYummy MultiCharts 6 April 3rd, 2012 05:48 PM
Fill price bet sim and Live for mkt orders emini_Holy_Grail Traders Hideout 8 December 28th, 2010 11:49 AM
Sim to Live Java Psychology and Money Management 9 July 24th, 2010 04:07 PM
Introduction: Sim trading S&P with Ninja traders SOM123 Traders Hideout 5 December 13th, 2009 11:27 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:42 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-13 in 0.15 seconds with 19 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.160.245.121