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Let me tell you why I SUCK as a discretionary trader ...
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Let me tell you why I SUCK as a discretionary trader ...

  #11 (permalink)
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TigerTrader, I do take trading seriously but I also know that I can't let the potential emotional pitfalls of trading get the best of me. Hence, the use of humor, and the decision not to pursue the complete and all-encompassing goal of trading perfection - the only perfection in trading that you can achieve, in my opinion, is perfection of process - not perfection of results. If you focus on attaining the perfection of results, you're already dead but just don't know it.

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  #12 (permalink)
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PandaWarrior View Post
Tigertrader, what do you suggest is the correct attitude? I was in a class today with a 20 year floor trader turned coach who basically said the same thing. He had some ideas of course but I am interested in hearing yours.


To a large degree, it's one of those things that everyone needs to figure out for themselves, not only in reference to trading, but in life. If you want to have a good relationship/marriage, you have to have take the correct approach and have the right attitude. This also holds true, if you want to be a good parent, or any other endeavor that involves a level of performance, and has an important effect on your life. It all begins with having confidence in yourself and a belief that you will not fail. You must also, be willing to do whatever it takes to be successful. This requires focus, drive, and determination, but also requires that one is not selfish, does not make excuses, and is honest with themselves.






.


Last edited by tigertrader; November 11th, 2011 at 12:37 PM.
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  #13 (permalink)
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This reminds me of a quote by the French impressionist painter Edgard Degas:

"Self-doubt kills ability"

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  #14 (permalink)
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tigertrader View Post
To a large degree, it's one of those things that everyone needs to figure out for themselves, not only in reference to trading, but in life.

For me, I had to stop talking bad about my trading. No more "I'm going long, so if you want to make money, go short!" type of an attitude.

It really all starts in the morning before you place your first trade. You should have confidence and the positive attitude to conquer the day. You can call it the "mind's eye" or whatever, but picture yourself trading for the day, calm, some winning trades, some losing trades, but confident that in the end it will all work out.

Approach each trade the same way. No single trade should be so "powerful" that it upsets you or your balance. Stops are part of the business. If taking one messes with your head too much, it means you are trading too big, or that you have no confidence in your plan.

I also agree with what Tiger hinted at --- you need to get things outside of your trading in place, too. In your general life, outside trading I mean. You can't expect to be calm and well prepared to trade if your personal household is crazy 5 minutes before you place a trade, or worse, during a trade.

Mike

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  #15 (permalink)
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furytrader View Post
This reminds me of a quote by the French impressionist painter Edgard Degas:

"Self-doubt kills ability"

Yes, self-sabotage is a common thing in trading. If you very much believe you will fail, then you will find a way.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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  #16 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Yes, self-sabotage is a common thing in trading. If you very much believe you will fail, then you will find a way.

Mike

My suggestion is to read the book The New Psycho Cybernetics. That book is not like any of the other "The Secret" or "How to get [insert key word]" or any of those other cheesy books that look at the outside but it helps you understand the inner algorithm that you have chosen to adapt as your governing principles of not only of your trading but your life. I start with one simple example.

Next time you take a bad trade instead of saying "Why did I do this" or "Why is this happening to me?" ask yourself "How can I make a better decision next time? What am I going to do to handle losses better because this is part of the business." Self pity, self destruction, self sabotage.... it all roots from having an inferior self image.

You will continue to make both poor and good decisions to always pull your life back in alignment with how you see yourself--the snap back effect. You cannot do any differently. Self image management is the key to all self improvement financially, emotionally and spiritually. There is an ever-present awareness in you that was here on earth before you arrived, before your parents did, or .... You created your own Ego to govern your self image. The only way to push aside that Ego is gratitude.

"You cannot exercise much power without gratitude because it is gratitude that keeps you connected with power. The creative power within us makes us into the image of that to which we give our attention. The grateful mind is constantly fixed upon the best, therefore it will receive the best." --Wallace Wattles

I have Psycho Cybernetics on audio CD. If you want, feel free to PM me.

-MM

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  #17 (permalink)
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With trading I was told to follow the plan, keep it 2:1 or better, be patient, let it play out, etc etc. But the reality I discovered was that there are so many opportunities to place a trade, that more important was whether this trade would provide a profit or a loss. I focused on staying in as long as there was profit, and getting out when the risk of turning the profit into a loss became apparent.
I had back tested my strategies, done forward testing in sim, done walk forward testing until I had something consistent. The statistical probability of my strategies was good enough for me to take the plunge. In time I realized that statistics mean very little for future results. They are a guide only. Something that says once upon a time in the past my strategies worked. However, two things will always be missing. You and the next tick.
It took me a long time to accept the fact that intra day trading is about the statistical probability of the immediate future, and to accept the fact that the immediate is often just the next price bar. I realized that trading is a focus on making money. I concentrated on making money each time I entered a trade. I made my trade management decisions focused on preserving my capital. Decisions to stay or get out became easy because my business was now trading. Some trades I lose, some I make 1 tick. Other trades I make 50 ticks. I no longer beat myself up about whether or not I followed the plan. The plan in its simplest terms is to make money... period. For me, if I have to make it 1 tick at a time, so be it. That is me. Part of my plan is to remain flexible because the market is fluid and the future is unknown.
I believe that every trader has to find out what works for them. I believe every trader has to look at themselves in the mirror and decide they are going to take everything they have learned from all their sources, and create themselves new as a trader. Of course, this assumes you have learned enough to create something for yourself. In reality, there is so much free information available that you need to spend enough time wading through enough of it until it begins to make sense to you. Then, take a deep breath, and re-create what you think would be the perfect strategy and approach for you. You can run these ideas by others with more experience if you like, but ultimately, they are not you. Of all the educational options I acted upon, the most valuable was moderating a trade room professionally. It was a sobering and humbling experience. I learned more from the attendees than I had from any mentor or course, mostly about what not to do. The mirror of myself was held up for me to stare at so often that I began to understand more clearly what I needed to do to make money as a trader.
So, discovery and an uncluttered open minded approach to what you are doing as a trader is going to help you not be over influenced one way or the other by other traders, their opinions, their strategies or methods. No one can give you the complete answer to your trading woes. You are going to have to take a little of this, a little of that and create your own future with this. The simpler the better. It is about you making money; not looking good, not being smart or right, not being confident, not being anything except a trader who trades well consistently enough to make money.
I have spent many years developing the thoughts and perceptions that got me the results I got today and of everyday before today. However, when I trade I keep a blank mind. I have no opinions whatsoever. I do not care what the market does. The market will tell me when it is time to place a trade. I simply execute the trade, or not. There is no hurry. There is no deadline.
One of the great secrets to this is the discovery that you may be very good for x amount of ticks per trade. If you are good for say 4 ticks per trade, 7 out of 10 trades, and you have no doubt about this (your journal will tell you) then think leverage.

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  #18 (permalink)
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furytrader View Post
With all apologies to Chris Farley:

"Let me tell you why I suck as a discretionary trader ...

... Let's say that I put on a trade and let's say it begins to show the smallest hint of a profit ...

... well, then, I get all excited ... I'm like 'JoJo The Idiot Circus Boy' with a pretty new pet ...

... the pet is my profitable trade ....

... (in JoJo's voice) 'oh my pretty little pet, I love you ...'

... so I stroke it, and I pet it, and I massage it ...

... and as soon as the market ticks against me by just a little bit, it's like, 'I love my little naughty pet ... you're naughty!

... and then I take my naughty pet and I go .... KZRRYSKX!!! ... and KRRZZZYXKXK!!!

... ooohhh ... I killed it! I killed it! I exited my profitable trade too early!

... and that's when I blow it ..."

That should win best post of the year. To funny.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #19 (permalink)
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Jaguar52 View Post
With trading I was told to follow the plan, keep it 2:1 or better, be patient, let it play out, etc etc. But the reality I discovered was that there are so many opportunities to place a trade, that more important was whether this trade would provide a profit or a loss. I focused on staying in as long as there was profit, and getting out when the risk of turning the profit into a loss became apparent.
I had back tested my strategies, done forward testing in sim, done walk forward testing until I had something consistent. The statistical probability of my strategies was good enough for me to take the plunge. In time I realized that statistics mean very little for future results. They are a guide only. Something that says once upon a time in the past my strategies worked. However, two things will always be missing. You and the next tick.
It took me a long time to accept the fact that intra day trading is about the statistical probability of the immediate future, and to accept the fact that the immediate is often just the next price bar. I realized that trading is a focus on making money. I concentrated on making money each time I entered a trade. I made my trade management decisions focused on preserving my capital. Decisions to stay or get out became easy because my business was now trading. Some trades I lose, some I make 1 tick. Other trades I make 50 ticks. I no longer beat myself up about whether or not I followed the plan. The plan in its simplest terms is to make money... period. For me, if I have to make it 1 tick at a time, so be it. That is me. Part of my plan is to remain flexible because the market is fluid and the future is unknown.
I believe that every trader has to find out what works for them. I believe every trader has to look at themselves in the mirror and decide they are going to take everything they have learned from all their sources, and create themselves new as a trader. Of course, this assumes you have learned enough to create something for yourself. In reality, there is so much free information available that you need to spend enough time wading through enough of it until it begins to make sense to you. Then, take a deep breath, and re-create what you think would be the perfect strategy and approach for you. You can run these ideas by others with more experience if you like, but ultimately, they are not you. Of all the educational options I acted upon, the most valuable was moderating a trade room professionally. It was a sobering and humbling experience. I learned more from the attendees than I had from any mentor or course, mostly about what not to do. The mirror of myself was held up for me to stare at so often that I began to understand more clearly what I needed to do to make money as a trader.
So, discovery and an uncluttered open minded approach to what you are doing as a trader is going to help you not be over influenced one way or the other by other traders, their opinions, their strategies or methods. No one can give you the complete answer to your trading woes. You are going to have to take a little of this, a little of that and create your own future with this. The simpler the better. It is about you making money; not looking good, not being smart or right, not being confident, not being anything except a trader who trades well consistently enough to make money.
I have spent many years developing the thoughts and perceptions that got me the results I got today and of everyday before today. However, when I trade I keep a blank mind. I have no opinions whatsoever. I do not care what the market does. The market will tell me when it is time to place a trade. I simply execute the trade, or not. There is no hurry. There is no deadline.
One of the great secrets to this is the discovery that you may be very good for x amount of ticks per trade. If you are good for say 4 ticks per trade, 7 out of 10 trades, and you have no doubt about this (your journal will tell you) then think leverage.

This is one of the best posts I have ever read on a Trading Forum. I agree 100% with your sentiments.

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