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Common sense trading decisions
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Common sense trading decisions

  #21 (permalink)
Big game hunter
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Busy,busy,busy am I . Trading,working,managing a home and family along with everyday life . Im one to take responsibility when others fail to do so for some reason .

In my youth I was in trouble often and it escalated as I got into my 20s . I got myself into fixes until finally I had enough and saw that I needed to do things differently . At my core my beliefs were not in line with my surroundings in such a way that subconciously I couldnt do anything right . So , I had to change my core beliefs to serve my needs and enable myself to get what was available from my surroundings and also synergize with others around me that shared my needs and interests .

luckily I made that shift while I was young and I had people around me that looked out for me . Luckier still I allowed this to occur , the allowing of new ideas into my belief system . Now , responsibility is my main focus or platform from which I function each day .

How this pertains to trading is simple . If you have a goal to achieve then you have to take responsibilty for each step towards that goal until it is reached . If that goal is beyond your present capablities then you need to be responsible to yourself and identify the steps you need to take to attain those capabilities . This is also known as 'knowing yourself" BTW .

One thing I do to refocus myself is to meditate . Meditate is a verb (to engage in contemplation or reflection) so it requires us to put energy into it or to act in some way . For me its simple , I just find a place where I wont be interupted for about 10 minutes and I sit relaxed with my hands and feet limp then do some deep in and out cleansing breaths , eyes closed , and Im in my desired state . Then I just think about the day ahead or week ahead or visualize the euros recent PA or whatever comes to mind for a little while . Usually after a few minutes Im drifting off thinking about something I havent addressed consiously in a long time and it could be anything like "I havent heard from this person in a while" or "I need to caulk the tub" etc.

After that I feel a lot more aware of my surroundings to a point that I pay closer attention to things and feel more relaxed , real zen like (zen - enlightenment by direct intuition through meditation) .


Last edited by Eric j; October 15th, 2011 at 08:34 AM.
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  #22 (permalink)
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We have much in common.

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  #23 (permalink)
Big game hunter
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Why keeping your profits is so difficult


For me , keeping what I earn in profits has been the hard part of trading and entering trades that offer profits has been among the easiest parts of trading .

For a large part of my trading career Ive seen my P&L seesaw from the original balance to a nice appreciation to a modest depreciation with the original balance being the mean . So my account tended to perform mean reversion and did so until I changed some habits I had . I tended to change the way I approached the market switching my tools often enough that they never had a chance to fulfill their prophecies . I tended to avoid trades and when I tried to cherry pick I avoided the winners over and over . I tended to move stops , have them taken out and you know the rest ( price goes directly to the profit thereafter ) .

Wanting to learn from my mistakes helped me avoid doing myself in but just wanting it isnt good enough . Wanting it just slowed down the seesaw process . Sorting out each detail of my actions from my thoughts while being flat to my executions and what I did and thought while a trade was alive to how I felt after I closed a trade or got stopped or had a bigger than average winner and on and on accounting for every detail .

Sounds like a lot of work but the reality is that thinking about committing to doing this mental work was tougher than doing it . It quickly became obvious to me that I complicated the process by overthinking mostly and impatience partly . Some of what I considered to be mistakes turned out to be lucid decisions that just didnt work but possesed a statistical edge or I didnt give enough of a chance to work . Other things I was doing were just plain no nos like not following through with a plan or changing the plans variables mid trade because I had some epiphany .

It didnt take long to sort out everything in my trading closet and exposing the skeletons to quarantine them . I still have the same tendencies but now Im aware of them and can get a grip before they can be put into play . I now have a way to do my analysis , set up my orders and not sabotage anything . Practicing dicipline is part of my routine now so looking back at my journals and at the screenshots of my trades with the notes I put on them is what I do instead of second guessing or letting myself get tempted to change my variables .

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  #24 (permalink)
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This thread continues to be of great value to me - thank you for sharing your journey.

This idea about analyzing the thought processes occurring while you are performing the various actions of trading is something I'm spending a lot of time with now. "the microstructure of mental state". I watched a presentation by Leslie Jouflas recently in which she made this point again and again that we need to pay attention to how we're thinking when we approach the various parts of the process of trading. Her position (which agrees with your post) was that if you don't get the right psychological state while you're doing the action, you will not get the action right. She quoted a guy who's name I don't remember but I wrote down the quote:

“Everything is psychological in terms of trading so it is really understanding those psychological variables that are key to winning and losing. For instance, each system typically has a number of discrete steps that one must follow and each step is associated with some distinct psychological state. If you follow the steps but don’t have the right psychological state associated with it, you’re going to be in trouble.”

This has led me to make a list of each of the discrete steps in trading and make notes about my desired mental state while I'm doing that step and also make note of the mental states that I actually find myself in (big surprise: these rarely coincide for me at this stage of my trading).

Thanks!

Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty. - Frank Herbert
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  #25 (permalink)
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Eric, just want to say once again - great job with the thread and sharing. You're putting it together very well, I can only hope new or struggling traders take the time to read and understand your posts.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.


Last edited by Big Mike; October 17th, 2011 at 01:02 PM.
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  #26 (permalink)
Big game hunter
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Surly View Post
This thread continues to be of great value to me - thank you for sharing your journey.

This idea about analyzing the thought processes occurring while you are performing the various actions of trading is something I'm spending a lot of time with now. "the microstructure of mental state". I watched a presentation by Leslie Jouflas recently in which she made this point again and again that we need to pay attention to how we're thinking when we approach the various parts of the process of trading. Her position (which agrees with your post) was that if you don't get the right psychological state while you're doing the action, you will not get the action right. She quoted a guy who's name I don't remember but I wrote down the quote:

“Everything is psychological in terms of trading so it is really understanding those psychological variables that are key to winning and losing. For instance, each system typically has a number of discrete steps that one must follow and each step is associated with some distinct psychological state. If you follow the steps but don’t have the right psychological state associated with it, you’re going to be in trouble.”

This has led me to make a list of each of the discrete steps in trading and make notes about my desired mental state while I'm doing that step and also make note of the mental states that I actually find myself in (big surprise: these rarely coincide for me at this stage of my trading).

Thanks!


Glad to hear this . Its apparent that when most people start hearing or reading something that contains "psychology" they tune out . When they hear or read something containing "how to" or "secrets revealed" they trip over themselves to tune in . Learning and accepting the truth about yourself is the most difficult thing you can do , neck and neck with being a profittable trader . First you learn to know yourself then you learn what you are capable of .

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  #27 (permalink)
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Thanks for the thread! It sounds like we might have shared some common experience in our youth, although I found out relatively early that if one hides out at the top of the class rather remain relegated to the bottom (whatever class that might be) one can get away with murder (figuratively :-/). It turns out I wasn't bad so much as an improperly tutored, budding and virulently Type 'A' personality. Recently my doctor prescribed meds that appear to confirm my Type 'A' suspicions, at least that mitigate the impact of trading on the physiology, and at least until I manage a few lifestyle changes that very likely will include some type of meditation.

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  #28 (permalink)
Big game hunter
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So far Ive revealed that I found it necessary to change the way I was thinking in order to save myself from getting swallowed by the market . Maybe you already have the right attitude or the way you think is already in line with what needs to be done to succeed - good .

So with the right attitude we know not to expect anything , even in our everyday lives . The better way to think is to have a good idea of probabilities . Even if you are promised something theres no guarantee its going to happen . Things in everyday life have their own set of probabilities and some things are so high probability they seem to be guaranteed but their not . Things like the sun rising or setting are not even guaranteed but the odds of them happening are so high that you wont find someone to bet against it unless they were just that - so high .

If you dont expect anything then you wont be disappointed when you dont encounter a positive result and when something thats a high probabilty event occurs then you wont take it for granted . If you dont take things for granted or get disappointed you will do the work necessary to keep positive things happening mostly because you arent spending time being upset .

If you do the work to further your trading success you will start to find some things arent necessary . Maybe you wont spend time listening to negative people making the same mistakes over and over . Maybe you'll notice that waiting for 5 tools to confirm an entry isnt necessary . Maybe you'll start tracking your thought process so you can keep tabs on yourself instead of paying attention to what other people are doing or claim to be doing . Maybe you'll stop feeling better because the whole group is drawing down just like you .

Heres a thread that I consider to be the best trading "book" Ive ever read . Its not a book of course but its just like one and it was interactive so it details how people were responding while it was being written . Im fascinated by the way people seemed to be at the ready to adopt (or even pay) anything to help them stop losing . I wonder how many of them are looking within . The methodology here isnt anything beyond common sense but the way the op weaves his tale is incredible . Like little sheep they follow while he mystifies them with his trading prowess . The story is called "AHG - Profitable Strategy for Struggling Traders" enjoy .

Forums - AHG - Profitable Strategy for Struggling Traders


Oooooo , I almost forgot , on page 818 is one of the most useful posts Ive ever seen online .


Last edited by Eric j; October 19th, 2011 at 03:42 PM. Reason: I almost forgot . P.s. - its the post by surinotes .
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  #29 (permalink)
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Uh oh, the mention of Anek... usually doesn't end well... I didn't see anything on 818 interesting except a post from Suri, maybe you can quote it.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
 
  #30 (permalink)
Big game hunter
NY
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Esignal, MBT navigator
Favorite Futures: Currencies
 
Posts: 2,526 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 1,397 given, 2,570 received



Big Mike View Post
Uh oh, the mention of Anek... usually doesn't end well... I didn't see anything on 818 interesting except a post from Suri, maybe you can quote it.

Mike


Anek = guru , seems theres always hard feelings when gurus are left in charge . Point is dont follow when you can lead . Heres what strikes me about suris post over there at ET ......

Trading successfully using technical analysis based charts must includes a [REASON] to trade ( Setup/Pattern/Indicators), A [FRAMEWORK]: Supp/Resistance Lines, MAs, Pivot levels, Bollinger/Fib. Bands... And an [EXECUTION] Trigger ( A Strategy based continuation/violation of certain level/thresholds).. Of course last but most important is [Money Management] this must be invidually tailored for each setup.. Could be $Stops, $Targets, MAs, Supp/resistance, Swing High/Lows etc....


A reason , framework and money management aka context . If your reason is corrupt , like wanting to win , then you're already on the wrong foot . If you're just taking trades because a red or green arrow appeared you're already on the wrong foot . If you're betting enough to tear a large hole in your capital you're already on the wrong foot .

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