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$500-1000 per day from part time trading
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$500-1000 per day from part time trading

  #11 (permalink)
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That sounds good on paper. In practice it's a different story. More power to discretionary traders who can do what you've said. I am happy where I am at, and like I said, I am increasing size slowly.

Mike

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  #12 (permalink)
Fortitudo et Honor
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Big Mike View Post
That sounds good on paper. In practice it's a different story. More power to discretionary traders who can do what you've said. I am happy where I am at, and like I said, I am increasing size slowly.

Mike

Agreed Mike, not criticizing anyone. Different perspectives.

I have a gambler's mentality. When I walk into a casino, after I've doubled whatever I was willing to lose, I usually put that back in my pocket and then from that point, I'm playing on "house" money. Sometimes I end up losing it back, but sometimes I end up making a great deal more because I'm not playing on scared money. The way I see it, it's money I didn't have before, so I'm not at any loss if I give it back.

The counter view would be that a dollar is a dollar and dumping it back is still losing money that would have been mine had I been more cautious.

It's wierd how I have an obsessive view of risk management with respect to other aspects of trading. I'm a huge proponent of backtesting, throrough expectancy development/confirmation, making sure I have contingencies in place, etc.

Again, my point still stands that even the most conservative discretionary guy would put some of the extra capital to use if he was earning $1k/day (or even $500/day) at some point.

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
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RM99 View Post
Agreed Mike, not criticizing anyone. Different perspectives.

I have a gambler's mentality. When I walk into a casino, after I've doubled whatever I was willing to lose, I usually put that back in my pocket and then from that point, I'm playing on "house" money. Sometimes I end up losing it back, but sometimes I end up making a great deal more because I'm not playing on scared money. The way I see it, it's money I didn't have before, so I'm not at any loss if I give it back.

Victor Sperandeo demonstrated this in his book Trader Vic. It is in the section on how to maximum profit.

Very good read. It is a good general course on economy. This is useful when you have a lot of money and need to deploy some on the fundamental side.

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jonc View Post
If you are averaging $500- 1000 per day from part time trading and you had been achieving this for the past 6 months.

A. Would you quit your day job and go full time trading? - potentially getting better results from doing it full time since you can be more focused.
B. Keep your day job and treat trading as an additional income stream?
C. Trade for another year before deciding ? This might cap your performance for an entire year

6 months is not very long. But I would say if you have a good primary income and can trade part time and make money why not just keep doing what you are doing? There are inherit pressures that come with depending on trading to eat. Plus by living off another income you can build your trading account allowing you to take on more size over time. Cash to a trader is your inventory and lifeblood. The more you build up the safer you are and the more business you can do just like any business.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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A. No. Only quit your 'day job' once it becomes a true hindrance to acquiring vast wealth, or is no longer serving as a psychological hedge which ultimately helps ensure sound trading. That is, of course, assuming your trading is discretionary.

B. Yes. Until the utility of your 'day job' loses any relevance in the grand scheme.

C. Yes, minimum. This provides time to make certain what you believe is in fact reality. The market isn't going anywhere. Don't take your time, but don't take unnecessary risks either.

I am of the ilk that trading is not for making 'a living'. I am trading with one purpose only, the only logical reason I know: to get rich. This is easier to accomplish when you don't need to succeed to put food on the table.

Before I get lambasted for saying so, let me make clear that is simply my take. No doubt others can perform at a similar level, in spite of the need to produce. I, on the other hand, prefer other, reliable, streams (even if it/they offers less than my trading efforts) of income to 'live' from; making my trading life easier.



jonc View Post
If you are averaging $500- 1000 per day from part time trading and you had been achieving this for the past 6 months.

A. Would you quit your day job and go full time trading? - potentially getting better results from doing it full time since you can be more focused.
B. Keep your day job and treat trading as an additional income stream?
C. Trade for another year before deciding ? This might cap your performance for an entire year


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I think a lot of this question comes down to personal circumstances and what you wish to achieve from trading. Also a lot of people ignore overhead (cost of living).

For example if you are only currently making $30k a year from a job you hate currently but could make $90k a year trading (and you love trading) then what is holding you back? On the other hand if you are making $150k a year from a job you love then you'd need more motiviation to actually leave.

Also beyond what you make how much do you actually spend? If you are a penny pinching bachelor spending $1.5k a month that is entirely different than if you are the sole bread winner for a family that likes to spend say $7k a month.

For my personal scenario I am waiting until I'm making about 4-5 times my monthly cost from trading before I quit my job. The reason is that I enjoy my job a great deal and my job isn't holding me back from trading very much. Also before I quit I would want at least a years worth of savings on top of my trading account.

However, none of this is set in stone. I know a very successful trader who quit his job with far fewer resources and now trades full time successfully. He was 21, single, and working at a crummy retail job before he quit. He had plenty of motivation and little to lose if things didn't work out.

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eudamonia View Post
I think a lot of this question comes down to personal circumstances and what you wish to achieve from trading. Also a lot of people ignore overhead (cost of living).

For example if you are only currently making $30k a year from a job you hate currently but could make $90k a year trading (and you love trading) then what is holding you back? On the other hand if you are making $150k a year from a job you love then you'd need more motiviation to actually leave.

Also beyond what you make how much do you actually spend? If you are a penny pinching bachelor spending $1.5k a month that is entirely different than if you are the sole bread winner for a family that likes to spend say $7k a month.

For my personal scenario I am waiting until I'm making about 4-5 times my monthly cost from trading before I quit my job. The reason is that I enjoy my job a great deal and my job isn't holding me back from trading very much. Also before I quit I would want at least a years worth of savings on top of my trading account.

However, none of this is set in stone. I know a very successful trader who quit his job with far fewer resources and now trades full time successfully. He was 21, single, and working at a crummy retail job before he quit. He had plenty of motivation and little to lose if things didn't work out.

Time Value of Money.

I have a great friend who's a professional options trader. He has a recent client who came into a small inheretence last year. She started out with approximately $60k and even though he yielded over 200% in returns for her last year, he couldn't get her to see that she was shooting herself in the foot by spending profits generated to the account.

She spent nearly $40k (went out and bought a new car, trip to Hawaii, computer for her daughter, moved into a new place, etc.)

He tried to show her that for every dollar she was spending, it was literally costing her anywhere from $3-$5 because had she left that $40k in the account, it would be worth over $120k at this point (thus her $40k in spending actually cost her $120k).

He's since dumped her, but it's difficult to get clients to agree to the "your money belongs to me for 6 months and don't ask questions" model for management/investing it.

If you're spending your earnings from investing, AT ALL, then you're truly choking yourself while trying to run on a treadmill.

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
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RM99 View Post
Invariably, we see this philosophical/fantasy question consistently.

My first question would be....

If you can make $1000/day trading and you've done it for 6 months, why can't you make $10k/day?

At $500/day, over 6 months (126 trading days), that's $63k in profit.

Unless you're choking out your profits by spending them.....you should be able to scale up. Surely an extra $63k in capital would permit even the most conservative trader to add a contract/lot.

I guess if you were tying up $1M in order to make your daily $500, (or spending it),

But the first question I would ask someone who claims they can make $500/day trading and do it consistently, is why can't they make $1000/day, or $2k/day, etc.

I'm not in this for a hobby. I'm not in this for a day job. I'm in this to eventually retire and spend my days fishing or watching HS football or sitting on a beach and re-enacting a Corona commercial.

Dude, done the corona commercial. Only a few people I have met can actually do it for any amount of time.

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bluemele View Post
Dude, done the corona commercial. Only a few people I have met can actually do it for any amount of time.

Agreed. But the point is that true financial freedom means that you work when and if you want to work and generally speaking you can do something that you love (that may not pay well and rarely does) or pursue other ambitions.

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
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RM99 View Post
If you're spending your earnings from investing, AT ALL, then you're truly choking yourself while trying to run on a treadmill.

I agree that in your example it was foolish for the client to spend a significant portion of her investment income particularly on luxury items. However, based on your last sentence there is no purpose in investing - since you shouldn't spend any of it. Clearly that wouldn't make any sense.

As I mentioned it really comes down to what you value most and how easily that resource is replenished.

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