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Multiplicity-: Generating wealth as opposed to paying the rent with trading income.
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Multiplicity-: Generating wealth as opposed to paying the rent with trading income.

  #11 (permalink)
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Jura View Post
Thanks for starting this interested (and inspiring!) thread Liquidcci - not your first thread that got me thinking. (Though I normally only read)

If I may ask, what kind of business (meaning operating in which sector) do you have? My assumption is that it's something programming or advanced mathematics related - and here's why: I agree with your premise that it should be possible to have multiple income streams, one from trading and one from other activities. However, and you as an automated NinjaTrader user will probably agree, there is an tremendous amount of things to be learned, created, tested, implemented before a "good" automated strategy can be implemented. I'm wondering how you can do that besides a full-time day job, if you're not a programmer for who the learning curve (for programming) is less steep - though even then there's still plenty to learn.

There's a good chance this is a limiting thought from me, but I can't see how one can successfully design and implement automated trading strategies by 'just' doing this in the evening and weekend.

As I understand from your post, and earlier ones, you were already a successful trader before you started automating, so I assume you already had a lot of experience before you designed it as a secondary income stream. Against that background, what would your advice be to your friends who quit their business and trade full-time? Would they, as beginners new to trading, benefit from the extra available time or would you still urge them to do it besides their regular work?

Best regards,
Jura

Jura I own a Management Consulting business. Your questions are great questions. I did have the advantage of focusing exclusively on trading for several years that did add to my knowledge. But I could have learned without that by getting up earlier for example and trading markets like the Euro or Gold etc.... Actually everything I use in auto trading I developed while running my other business. In fact I really had to unlearn many of the habits I picked up while going at it full time. Developing an AT is more like playing a chess game and can be developed after hours. Develop, backtest, run in sim etc....

Really I consider myself a full time trader now but my AT works for me allowing me to do other things. I could use my trading income to pay all my bills but I don't because I want to build long term wealth. My ideas on making trading a second income as opposed to first may not work for everyone. But there are some clear advantages to leaving your capital alone and letting it build as well as psychological advantages of not depending on trading to put bread on the table.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."

Last edited by liquidcci; August 9th, 2011 at 11:19 AM.
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  #12 (permalink)
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liquidcci View Post
Jura I own a Management Consulting business. Your questions are great questions. I did have the advantage of focusing exclusively on trading for several years that did add to my knowledge. But I could have learned without that by getting up earlier for example and trading markets like the Euro or Gold etc.... Actually everything I use in auto trading I developed while running my other business. In fact I really had to unlearn many of the habits I picked up while going at it full time. Developing an AT is more like playing a chess game and can be developed after hours. Develop, backtest, run in sim etc....

Really I consider myself a full time trader now but my AT works for me allowing me to do other things. I could use my trading income to pay all my bills but I don't because I want to build long term wealth. My ideas on making trading a second income as opposed to first may not work for everyone. But there are some clear advantages to leaving your capital alone and letting it build as well as psychological advantages of not depending on trading to put bread on the table.

Thanks for your further elaboration Liquidcci - it's even more impressing given that your business is not trading related. One might argue that, even if your returns are not as good as a trader who spends his whole day researching/implementing automated trading systems, you're still more successful (since I assume you're doing two jobs that you love).

This thread nicely pointed out some dogma's I have about 'successful trading' and 'working hard at trading != working full time at trading'. Besides that, it's inspiring because if you can manage to do two demanding full-time jobs, I'd imagine I can pull the same thing off on a smaller and less demanding scale.

Best regards,
Jura

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  #13 (permalink)
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Jura View Post
Thanks for your further elaboration Liquidcci - it's even more impressing given that your business is not trading related. One might argue that, even if your returns are not as good as a trader who spends his whole day researching/implementing automated trading systems, you're still more successful (since I assume you're doing two jobs that you love).

This thread nicely pointed out some dogma's I have about 'successful trading' and 'working hard at trading != working full time at trading'. Besides that, it's inspiring because if you can manage to do two demanding full-time jobs, I'd imagine I can pull the same thing off on a smaller and less demanding scale.

Best regards,
Jura

Jura glad gave you something to think about outside of the box. I may at some point sell my other business. But won't consider it until I could say live on 5% of my monthly trading profits. I am in no hurry and would only do it so I have to work less. At that point I would not put anymore time into trading but may spend more time on the beach. Even if someone could develop a part time business that still allows them to trade or monitor an autotrade system it can be helpful. I liken it to reinvesting in your trading business. The more capital you leave in the more contracts you can trade producing more profit. I think just making a living on trading is short sided when it can produce so much more if keep reinvesting.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."

Last edited by liquidcci; August 12th, 2011 at 12:07 PM.
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  #14 (permalink)
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My main goal is to not have a job. If you have to show up, then you have a job.

I will automate my strategy in the future so I don't have a job.
Right now, I have no clue how to do it but I will figure it out if I want it bad enough.

I'm also a project engineer, full time.

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  #15 (permalink)
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Massive l View Post
My main goal is to not have a job. If you have to show up, then you have a job.

I will automate my strategy in the future so I don't have a job.
Right now, I have no clue how to do it but I will figure it out if I want it bad enough.

I'm also a project engineer, full time.

How about no job and own an island.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."

Last edited by liquidcci; August 12th, 2011 at 03:46 PM.
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  #16 (permalink)
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lol sure. If you can do it then you are the man!

I'm friends with the writer of this book and he's no joke. I did the audio book for him.
He turned an 80hr work week (business owner) into a 4hr work week.

Work the System ? Methodology

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  #17 (permalink)
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Massive l View Post
lol sure. If you can do it then you are the man!

I'm friends with the writer of this book and he's no joke. I did the audio book for him.
He turned an 80hr work week (business owner) into a 4hr work week.

Work the System ? Methodology

I am going to check that book out. I love that kind of stuff.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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