NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Auto trading is only thing that conquered my darkside


Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one liquidcci with 71 posts (65 thanks)
    2. looks_two monpere with 54 posts (53 thanks)
    3. looks_3 sidney7g with 45 posts (1 thanks)
    4. looks_4 Xeno with 33 posts (11 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one RM99 with 1.1 thanks per post
    2. looks_two monpere with 1 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 liquidcci with 0.9 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 Xeno with 0.3 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 73,605 views
    2. thumb_up 208 thanks given
    3. group 35 followers
    1. forum 358 posts
    2. attach_file 16 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Auto trading is only thing that conquered my darkside

  #341 (permalink)
 RM99 
Austin, TX
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeStation
Trading: Futures
Posts: 839 since Mar 2011
Thanks Given: 124
Thanks Received: 704

I must caution you though, that if your backtesting is inherently flawed, all of this will be for nothing.

I see you went back to daily bars. Just bear in mind that if you're not backtesting tick/tick (or with market replay as the Ninjas call it) then again, if your transaction can ocurr all within the same bar, the engine has no way of knowing what ocurred inside that bar and what direction the bar moved first, in the middle, etc.

All of this optimization and what not has to assume there are no fatal flaws in your backtesting method and ability to translate forward.

At a bare minimum you should do a sanity check and forward test for some sample size, just to verify everything looks as good going forward as it did backward.

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
MC PL editor upgrade
MultiCharts
Trade idea based off three indicators.
Traders Hideout
NT7 Indicator Script Troubleshooting - Camarilla Pivots
NinjaTrader
Pivot Indicator like the old SwingTemp by Big Mike
NinjaTrader
Increase in trading performance by 75%
The Elite Circle
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Just another trading journal: PA, Wyckoff & Trends
34 thanks
Tao te Trade: way of the WLD
24 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
17 thanks
Vinny E-Mini & Algobox Review TRADE ROOM
13 thanks
My NQ Trading Journal
12 thanks
  #342 (permalink)
andyb1979
London UK
 
Posts: 37 since Aug 2011
Thanks Given: 7
Thanks Received: 4

Im using OpenQuant (trial) as it supports portfolio rebalancing and other features that I want to use. It doesn't unfortunately do sophisticated analysis of optimization parameters (although I am writing code to spit optimization out to file so I can view the results in Excel). It does do robustness as you can create a Monte Carlo instrument (simulated stock price) using the existing instrument drift (trend), volatility etc... Not sure how this works but I will certainly be investigating it.

Reply With Quote
  #343 (permalink)
 TheTrend 
Paris, France
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Amibroker
Trading: Futures, Stocks
Posts: 95 since Jun 2011
Thanks Given: 118
Thanks Received: 105


I must second RM99 and let you know that your result might be flawed because your take profit of 28 pips seems really small compared to an average daily range of 110pips for EUR/USD.

If you consider your signal to be more reliable based on the daily time frame, take your signals based on that but manage and test your stratey on a lower time frame. You can do that quite easily in MultiCharts, don't know about Open Quant though.

Good luck with your strategy !

Reply With Quote
  #344 (permalink)
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 Big Mike 
Manta, Ecuador
Site Administrator
Developer
Swing Trader
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: IBKR
Trading: Stocks & Futures
Frequency: Every few days
Duration: Weeks
Posts: 50,440 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 33,212
Thanks Received: 101,599


andyb1979 View Post
Ok, I took a step back and applied a trend following strategy I've developed on the daily EURUSD only. Forget 15 mins for now, its too noisy. I need to go back to basics and back to the daily chart.

I suggest you create your own journal thread on the forum to track everything. And more importantly, at the end of every week, go back and read all the journal posts for the prior two weeks. Hopefully it will help you avoid what I call the black hole phenomenon, where traders repeat the same mistakes over and over again without realizing it.

Here is an excellent example of a systems "journal". The author is publishing all of his work and code, but the important lessons are what happens over time and how he and the system are evolving:



Mike

We're here to help: just ask the community or contact our Help Desk

Quick Links: Change your Username or Register as a Vendor
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list
Lifetime Elite Membership: Sign-up for only $149 USD
Exclusive money saving offers from our Site Sponsors: Browse Offers
Report problems with the site: Using the NexusFi changelog thread
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #345 (permalink)
 
Jigsaw Trading's Avatar
 Jigsaw Trading  Jigsaw Trading is an official Site Sponsor
 
Posts: 2,988 since Nov 2010
Thanks Given: 831
Thanks Received: 10,393


andyb1979 View Post
Here are (honest) answers to your questions

Include commissions - No (Openquant doesnt support this in test mode, as far as I can tell)
Slippage - No
Orders - All at market on bar close
Expectancy - with these settings about +$35 per trade.

i.e. average of all losses + all wins / total trades is $35

So I know what you're thinking. $35 - some slippage - some commissions (about $3 per side on interactive brokers FX) = potential to go negative in live trading.

Well, its a start

I'd like to see the expectancy higher. The win:loss ratio Im pleased with at its 68%. The average win however is not far off the average loss.

I'm trying to add some better profit taking like scalp 50% at a certain level then trail the rest to see how that improves expectancy

Isn't this an unrealistic system if it expects to be filled at the closing price of a bar?

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #346 (permalink)
andyb1979
London UK
 
Posts: 37 since Aug 2011
Thanks Given: 7
Thanks Received: 4

In the lab for a few days, this is what I've come up with.

A trend/scalp hybrid strategy - basically trades the trend but also takes profit at 2 points (using ATR - volatillity estimate - for profit targets).

The entry is fixed but exit I've optimised based on ATR window and multiplier to take profit at 2 points. Thats it. I've tested on a basket of stocks, ETFs and currencies (need more data to test more instruments), including commissions and slippage. max drawdown is around 15% in the credit crunch. Its a long only strategy.

Next up, opening a futures account & paper trading

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Trend strat result.png
Views:	184
Size:	223.1 KB
ID:	48129  
Reply With Quote
  #347 (permalink)
 GT22 
Currently Inactive
 
Posts: 24 since Aug 2011

@andyb1979

Suggestion:

Eventually you want will want to move into strategies that are adaptable both horizontally and vertically on the charts. Do that and the backtesting becomes less important. ATR is crude and is a start.

Reply With Quote
  #348 (permalink)
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 Big Mike 
Manta, Ecuador
Site Administrator
Developer
Swing Trader
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: IBKR
Trading: Stocks & Futures
Frequency: Every few days
Duration: Weeks
Posts: 50,440 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 33,212
Thanks Received: 101,599

Moderator Notice
Moderator Notice



Mike

We're here to help: just ask the community or contact our Help Desk

Quick Links: Change your Username or Register as a Vendor
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list
Lifetime Elite Membership: Sign-up for only $149 USD
Exclusive money saving offers from our Site Sponsors: Browse Offers
Report problems with the site: Using the NexusFi changelog thread
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #349 (permalink)
andyb1979
London UK
 
Posts: 37 since Aug 2011
Thanks Given: 7
Thanks Received: 4

Sorry

... So thanks to rigourous simulation & backtest and a nice pretty equity curve, I now feel confident to pull the trigger. Whereas If I'm left to make the decisions I'll bottle it and make a right pigs ear of it

Reply With Quote
  #350 (permalink)
 
forrestang's Avatar
 forrestang 
Chicago IL
 
Experience: None
Platform: Ninja, MT4, Matlab
Broker: CQG, AMP, MB, DTN
Trading: E/U, G/U
Posts: 1,329 since Jun 2010
Thanks Given: 354
Thanks Received: 1,047



DionysusToast View Post
Isn't this an unrealistic system if it expects to be filled at the closing price of a bar?

Some stuff I was messing with yesterday. Pertaining to your comment above, I noticed a similar phenomenon. I was using an exotic bar type, and doing some crude backtesting with NT7. The fills were unlikely, VERIFIED UNREALISTIC with a replay.

I guess the cool thing was how consistent the system was. No matter the size of the bar, chart resolution or the period in which I tested (tested 3 months at a time for the whole year of 2011). All equity curves had almost exact same shape, winning % and everything remained consistent. Increasing the bar size would linearly increase the expectancy per trade.

I believe the pics below where of 6E.... oil was really insane. I deleted most of the stats, here where just two examples using a really small bar size with 1 contract.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Prime2011-09-01_080132.jpg
Views:	168
Size:	191.3 KB
ID:	48161   Click image for larger version

Name:	Prime2011-09-01_082213.jpg
Views:	202
Size:	193.7 KB
ID:	48162  
Reply With Quote




Last Updated on January 17, 2016


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts