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Auto trading is only thing that conquered my darkside
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Auto trading is only thing that conquered my darkside

  #21 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Massive l View Post
It would be helpful because then we can hear and see the difference in your trading.
A picture speaks a thousand words.

If you have a successful bot, then let's see what its got Please.

One of my favorite online traders had no problem starting a thread on another board
to put his skill on display when asked the same question.

He posted screenshots for a year with amazing consistency. He is a directional, discretionary /CL trader.

Massive I won't post screen shots. Even with account numbers blacked out just a little to personal to post. A statement could be faked easily in any case. Plus I am not really here to prove my numbers just enjoy hanging out with people interested in same thing. In my last post I did put my averages for last 2 years. I would not have even posted that except for the fact you asked. That is probably the most you will get out of me.

I could start a journal here with my daily entry and exits but most would find it very boring as I am only in around 100 to 150 trades per year. Although I am in process of coding a couple of more signals that may yield more. I have never considered a journal but might because I do like this site.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #22 (permalink)
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liquidcci View Post
Massive I won't post screen shots. Even with account numbers blacked out just a little to personal to post. A statement could be faked easily in any case. Plus I am not really here to prove my numbers just enjoy hanging out with people interested in same thing. In my last post I did put my averages for last 2 years. I would not have even posted that except for the fact you asked. That is probably the most you will get out of me.

I could start a journal here with my daily entry and exits but most would find it very boring as I am only in around 100 to 150 trades per year. Although I am in process of coding a couple of more signals that may yield more. I have never considered a journal but might because I do like this site.

No one needs to know how much money you are making, or how successful your bot is. Now, if you were selling it as a black box, then you would need to be prepared to put up the numbers, otherwise, it's none of our business.

I have coded many bots, and none were successful. But they were all day trading systems. Your statement about the number of trades per year is interesting, and I may look into more longer term strategies. Can you tell us anything else generically about the system, like is it trend following, counter trend, scalp, holds overnight, stocks, futures, options, the market concept you are exploit, etc.? Anything that you may comfortable with.

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  #23 (permalink)
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No worries. Here's how I look at it:

I wouldn't tell you I climbed Mt. Everest (which is what you have literally done in the bot trading world) without showing you a picture.

You are a Futures God.


liquidcci View Post
One time I did over 100 emini trades in a day 1 contract at a time only ending when I blew up my account. I was not scalping but just out of control. I was in a cold sweat and I could not stop pushing that entry button. The trading ladder jumping up and down could just not be resisted. Like a carnival game that could not be won I went until all my money was gone. I ended that day in a fetal position in the corner with my thumb in my mouth. It was bad. Trading reduced me to a slot machine gambler with no discipline.

I think a large majority of day traders with decent starting capital have done that same thing when they first started. I know I did!


liquidcci View Post
But then I decided to build my signals into an auto trade strategy. It was the best time and money I ever spent. It 100% solved my discipline issues. I have not entered a rogue trade outside of my plan for 2 years and am profitable. This may not work for everyone but was only way I could overcome the darkness that lurks in every trader.

It's strange how it's so hard for individuals to follow a simple set of instructions. In school, our teacher gave us instructions and we specifically followed them or we received a bad grade. Once we graduated, most of us got a job. We were given instructions and we followed them exactly or we would get reprimanded and potentially fired.

For some of us, once money is on the line, we go bonkers.

The problem is that too many traders focus on the money and not the process they are/should be working on to get the money. New traders skip risk/reward, money management, identifying targets, proper stops, price + volume, etc. and instead focus on the money and the indicator(s) that they think can get them the money. The problem isn't that their system is not automated, it's that they are not focusing on the basic keys to successful trading.

I does not sound like you were using any of the basics mentioned above when you were making tons of trades a day, losing left and right and ending up in the corner at the end of the day.

Of course, even with the basics and an edge, psychology plays an extremely important role.
I still don't find it too hard to follow a strict set of rules. I play black jack with a set of rules.
Trading is very similar. Everyone is different though.

You found a way to conquer your emotions and are extremely profitable. Congrats!

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  #24 (permalink)
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liquidCCI,

Thanks for starting this thread. I've been pondering an auto trade strategy, and, like you, find that my dark side is getting in the way far too often when I try to abide by my trading rules.

How did you go about designing and testing your strategy? Did you just run some back tests on historical data or were you more interested in real time sim trading? I'm assuming you went through many cycles of tweaking and retesting and maybe starting from scratch a few times. Did you ever think that you were curve fitting? That has been a stopping point for me. I get a nagging feeling that I'm curve fitting when I back test a strategy.

Thanks for your time,
-C

“Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” - Sun Tzu
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  #25 (permalink)
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monpere View Post
No one needs to know how much money you are making, or how successful your bot is. Now, if you were selling it as a black box, then you would need to be prepared to put up the numbers, otherwise, it's none of our business.

I have coded many bots, and none were successful. But they were all day trading systems. Your statement about the number of trades per year is interesting, and I may look into more longer term strategies. Can you tell us anything else generically about the system, like is it trend following, counter trend, scalp, holds overnight, stocks, futures, options, the market concept you are exploit, etc.? Anything that you may comfortable with.

My system now is all trend trades although I am not opposed to counter. I trade CL crude futures. I traded TF at one time but when it went to ICE I never could get profitable with it. No holds overnight this is a day trading system even though relatively small number of yearly trades. My targets are above 40 ticks. I exploit a move away from trend followed by hard momentum back to trend.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #26 (permalink)
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liquidcci View Post
My system now is all trend trades although I am not opposed to counter. I trade CL crude futures. I traded TF at one time but when it went to ICE I never could get profitable with it. No holds overnight this is a day trading system even though relatively small number of yearly trades. My targets are above 40 ticks. I exploit a move away from trend followed by hard momentum back to trend.

What kind of money management do you use? initial stop, breakeven, scaleout, multiple contacts, scaleouts, max daily loss, etc. Many times the money managment aspect is what can make or break a system.

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  #27 (permalink)
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Massive l View Post
No worries. Here's how I look at it:

I wouldn't tell you I climbed Mt. Everest (which is what you have literally done in the bot trading world) without showing you a picture.

You are a Futures God.

Hey this statement not totally fair. I did not come in here saying I climbed Everest. In fact I only posted my averages after you asked me to post my statements which I refused. I could put any numbers on this board and then photo shop a statement pretending I climbed Everest if I wanted to.

My original post I put out there how I had been a complete trading moron for years but changed my ways a few years back. So I am not really sure you think I am claiming to climb Everest. This thread was never about that. Really I hoped to encourage others who are struggling that you can change and find a way to become profitable if work at it. Honestly these kinds of conversations are why I avoid many other forums.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #28 (permalink)
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monpere View Post
What kind of money management do you use? initial stop, breakeven, scaleout, multiple contacts, scaleouts, etc. Many times the money managment aspect is what can make or break a system.

We think alike I think money management is a huge part of a winning or losing system. I don't scale out, at one time I used a breakeven but found over time did not help me so just have a target and a stop that do not move.

My settings change depending what instrument right now all I trade is CL where I use a stop over 30 ticks and a target over 40 ticks. I get around 65% to 70% winners with those parameters. The target and stop is much wider than I used on TF back when the Russell worked. These settings are very crude specific. Other markets I may use breakevens, scale in and out tighter stops etc. Crude is a beast and I found need a wide swath between my stop and target to win. I also found a breakeven just did not give it room it needed to get to target so it really brings my system results down. I think the nature of crude to get very directional and run hard on the trend makes that wide combo possible.

I use fixed ratio to scale up my contracts which is very key to my trading and where the profit really rolls.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #29 (permalink)
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liquidcci View Post
Hey this statement not totally fair. I did not come in here saying I climbed Everest. In fact I only posted my averages after you asked me to post my statements which I refused. I could put any numbers on this board and then photo shop a statement pretending I climbed Everest if I wanted to.

My original post I put out there how I had been a complete trading moron for years but changed my ways a few years back. So I am not really sure you think I am claiming to climb Everest. This thread was never about that. Really I hoped to encourage others who are struggling that you can change and find a way to become profitable if work at it. Honestly these kinds of conversations are why I avoid many other forums.

I understand. I know you didn't say that or have that intention to begin with.
I'm saying you are, even without any of the numbers.
Successful traders are far and few between. I suppose you didn't read past the first paragraph.

Don't take it too seriously. It's all good. I meant no harm and I understand your direction.

Also, you could post a photo of you on Mt. Everest but you would get called out quickly. Photo/screenshot hoaxes are pretty easy to smoke out with photoshop plug ins.
That's why you rarely see people putting up fake screenshots. They would get called out
by geeks like us in a heartbeat lol

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  #30 (permalink)
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Massive l View Post
I understand. I know you didn't say that or have that intention to begin with.
I'm saying you are, even without any of the numbers.
Successful traders are far and few between. I suppose you didn't read past the first paragraph.

Don't take it too seriously. It's all good. I meant no harm and I understand your direction.

Also, you could post a photo of you on Mt. Everest but you would get called out quickly. Photo/screenshot hoaxes are pretty easy to smoke out with photoshop plug ins.
That's why you rarely see people putting up fake screenshots. They would get called out
by geeks like us in a heartbeat lol

Okay Massive thanks for clarification. Hand shake.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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