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Auto trading is only thing that conquered my darkside
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Auto trading is only thing that conquered my darkside

  #211 (permalink)
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sidney7g View Post
Take a snap shot of your trading logs instead of your code. If you can include a 6 month to a year time frame. This way you won't share your code but can validate that Automation did truly conquer your darkside.


Code and then you running the code would be the only real proof. Anything else could easily be fabricated. I don't share my trading log and could fabricate them in 5 minutes so this is moot. I think what you may not be understanding is I nor most are not here to prove anything. We don't need to prove anything. What I get out of these boards is some debate and maybe with some of my experiences I can help another trader in some capacity as well as learn from others.

If you feel like by asking for proof and no one is willing to offer you proof that you somehow validate your point that mechanical auto systems don't make money you are gravely wrong.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #212 (permalink)
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Probabilities and Execution

Professional casinos, gamblers, discretionary, mechanical, and auto traders are successful - otherwise theirs would not be a profession.

What do they have in common? Probabilities and execution. They play the odds... Very well.

Do any of these professionals take chances and beat the odds - yes, except the auto traders and the casinos.
Do any take chances and not beat the odds - yes, except the autotraders and the casinos.

Who is best at exploiting the probabilities and repetitively execute and succeed in the long run - guess who.

Do many professionals make the news - yes, the winners who beat the odds.
Do many professionals win and not make the news - yes, those auto traders and casinos.

Are there more winners or more losers in gambling and trading - more winners that exploit probabilities and execution, more losers that don't.

Am I for or against any of these professionals. I'm for the successful methodology. I'm still on my quest. I have an open mind. And I've learned more about my mind and human psychology on my quest.

Thirty some odd years ago Bobby Fischer beat Big Blue at chess. Last year Watson cleaned up at Jeopardy.
Machines, programs, are getting better. Who would win at chess today?

Human psychology is loaded against you in trading. Overcoming it is tough. It sneaks thru even once you 'overcame' it. So you applies rules and systems to thwart human and personal psychology. Using a program applies it flawlessly.

I am an inconsistent discretionary trader with mechanical rules (that I don't flawlessly execute) taking a good look at auto-trading. I'm sure I'll learn something.

But not learning so much from this thread recently. But am reliving my playground days.

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  #213 (permalink)
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Quoting 
I have not seen proof. 6 months to a year. over 100 trades.

Why would it convince you? The screen shot mentioned is so easy to display backtest instead of live trading.


Quoting 
well please ask those two to just send a private message to me confirming this.

You're joking right? They're not getting involved for a reason.


Quoting 
I just find it common courtesy to share proof if they are truly successful with it.

Funny that. What I find common courtesy is not calling people's honesty into question by insisting they show you proof.

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  #214 (permalink)
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liquidcci View Post
Code and then you running the code would be the only real proof. Anything else could easily be fabricated. I don't share my trading log and could fabricate them in 5 minutes so this is moot. I think what you may not understanding is I nor most are not here to prove anything.

If you feel like by asking for proof and no one is willing to offer you proof that you somehow validate your point that mechanical auto systems don't make money you are gravely wrong.

No I wouldn't need to run the code. Like I said I'm not hard to convince. Look I can't stop you from fabricating your logs but at least share them. If you have nothing to prove stop replying to me.

This isn't validating mechanical trading, this is simply validating automated trading ONLY.

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  #215 (permalink)
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sidney7g View Post
I have not seen proof. 6 months to a year. over 100 trades.

well please ask those two to just send a private message to me confirming this.

I'm don't expect them to want the kudos. I just find it common courtesy to share proof if they are truly successful with it.

Check out the following thread, where the original author spent days with the same argument about proof:

https://futures.io/vendors-product-reviews/7424-ten-thousand-education-still-not-profitable.html

Then he found some trading guru with plenty of proof, paid him a ton of money, then took 9 successful trades, and started the following thread telling everyone he found the holy grail:

https://futures.io/vendors-product-reviews/9298-ten-thousand-education-finally-paying-off.html

Then 3 days later, he's telling everyone, he spoke to soon, and he is losing money again. What did that proof accomplish for him? It's a futile and worthless argument.

Now you want to see people's pseudo code? I suspect you probably tried automated algorighms and failed, and now think that if you can get a peek at someone's successful trading method you can copy it and generate a successful automated system yourself. Not going to happen, unless you hack into someone's machine.

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  #216 (permalink)
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sidney7g View Post
No I wouldn't need to run the code. Like I said I'm not hard to convince. Look I can't stop you from fabricating your logs but at least share them. If you have nothing to prove stop replying to me.

This isn't validating mechanical trading, this is simply validating automated trading ONLY.

I think I will stop replying to you as you suggest. This has become counter productive and quite childish. It is clear to me you don't have an understanding of mechanical trading and the automation of it and have no desire to understand. Really automation is not the heart of the issue it is mechanical vs discretionary. Automation only follows the rules of a mechanical system. But I can only converse on an adult level with someone who understands these concepts. I think your best teacher will be a few account blow outs. Sometimes the market is the best teacher of all.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #217 (permalink)
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liquidcci View Post
I think I will stop replying to you as you suggest. This has become counter productive and quite childish. It is clear to me you don't have an understanding of mechanical trading and the automation of it and have no desire to understand. Really automation is not the heart of the issue it is mechanical vs discretionary. Automation only follows the rules of a mechanical system. But I can only converse on an adult level with someone who understands these concepts.

Ditto

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  #218 (permalink)
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monpere View Post
I suspect you have tried automation and failed, now are looking for ideas for a profitable system. No one is going to give you their profitable system. Go and create one your self.

No, I have not tried automation, but I am interested in possibly coding my mechanical system. Before I am willing to dive into it, I want to know If it's worth the trouble. My mechanical system is profitable on its own.

From this post -
https://futures.io/wiki/trading-wiki/Backtesting?do=edit

huge swings in capitol. Only 45k made in 2 years off 100k.

liquidcci - how long did it take you to take 5k to 100k?

Monpere - I will check out your links.

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  #219 (permalink)
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liquidcci View Post
I think I will stop replying to you as you suggest. This has become counter productive and quite childish. It is clear to me you don't have an understanding of mechanical trading and the automation of it and have no desire to understand. Really automation is not the heart of the issue it is mechanical vs discretionary. Automation only follows the rules of a mechanical system. But I can only converse on an adult level with someone who understands these concepts. I think your best teacher will be a few account blow outs. Sometimes the market is the best teacher of all.

Well Its not childish to prove yourself. I have the desire to learn automation. Automation may not be the heart of the issue, But you have yet to agree that gambling and discretionary trading are not the same.

Have you tried the chartgame.com yet?
Has anyone gotten to 20k?

Still no one wants to shed light on any substantial proof of automation. I can understand Advanced concepts in programming. Tell me some that you use.

My account will never be blown because I do not gamble.

And if you believe the market is the best teacher trade real data on the chartgame.com and post a log

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  #220 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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Platform: NT
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Posts: 114 since Jun 2011
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If you guys can talk the talk, walk the walk. No excuses.

At least trade the chartgame.com from 10k to 20k with no indicators to understand where I am coming from with discretion not being gambling.

I am sorry for being aggressive in this discussion, I just want to get to the bottom of this. Silver dragon modestly helped me out the most just posting that simple picture. I want to be a true believer, I just need evidence.

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