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Auto trading is only thing that conquered my darkside
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Auto trading is only thing that conquered my darkside

  #201 (permalink)
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stop stop stop


sidney7g View Post
Monpere you are totally twisting my words around, yet again. I said to play the chartgame.com till you get to 100k with no indicators or statistics, then use the same tactics on CL in SIMULATION because it is in essence the same thing. Never just jump into trading a system that you barely know. Damn monpere do you even know how to trade?
DO IT ON ANY INSTRUMENT IF YOU SO CHOOSE. IT DOESN'T MATTER. the only reason I said to use the chartgame is because it allows you to speed up time, which makes it somewhat easier to come to the conclusion faster.

AND AGAIN, MONPERE HAVE YOU GOTTEN TO 100K? NO? then shut up. Don't post on my methods until you can back up your statements.

AND AGAIN, I still want proof automated systems work. no one has given me any or directed me to any proof. How do you expect me to even believe any of this. I know what works for me, but how are you going to make me believe something that is theoretically possible but not provable. You guys believe in Statistics, well I want statistics on a successful longterm automated program. Is that too much to ask for?

please, futures.io (formerly BMT) is for learning each other, not for MADNESS!!!

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  #202 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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monpere View Post
And, how exactly do you know I have not gotten to 100K? That is quite presumptuous. If you start with more then 100K, getting to 100K has no meaning. Have you given any proof that your system works? What kind of proof do you want? Why would anyone care to give you proof? What is that worth to them? Do you think satisfying your satisfaction, would validate them? Would that make them feel proud? Thank about your request, and ask yourself why would anyone entertain that request. Unless someone gives you their account information for you to login to their account and examine their trade history and account balance, then asking for proof is futile. Any 5 year old can bring up Microsoft paint, type in some numbers, and show you what ever it is you want to see.

In a medium like this, all you can do is present the arguments that you believe in, with the theories and experience that support that belief. That may convince some people, influence others, or just cause them ponder. Others will be outright unmovable, because they are too well entrenched in their own belief. No amount of proof will convince them, and no amount of proof will guarantee that system will work for them.

look go to chartgame.com it starts you out at 10k, you trade data from real stocks.

take a snap shot of your account with automation, the trading log too. Show me your program or part of it.

Look yes anyone can fudge proof with Photoshop, but I'm trusting you. I trusted silver dragon on page 5, and anyone else that wants to be a grown up about this.
I have the capability to trust you guys, why do you think I wouldn't?

Grown ups can prove themselves.

If you guys don't want to post it on the forum, send it to me in a private message. It doesn't matter to me. If you guys want to fudge it up then you have to live with the guilt and shame that you're taking credit for a fabricated system.

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  #203 (permalink)
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There are plenty of threads on this forum about proofs for automated systems. In summary, you're not going to get proof. If you insist that people with whom you disagree on this are lying, then I imagine they're quite happy to leave it there and move on and discuss other stuff.

Now, purely out of interest, what specifically (and I mean stats) in a trading record would convince you?

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  #204 (permalink)
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Xeno View Post
There are plenty of threads on this forum about proofs for automated systems. In summary, you're not going to get proof. If you insist that people with whom you disagree on this are lying, then I imagine they're quite happy to leave it there and move on and discuss other stuff.

Now, purely out of interest, what specifically (and I mean stats) in a trading record would convince you?

Like just a simple brief report. A description of what the program does. A log of a significant amount of trades. Maybe, a monthly log of net profits. A chart with some trades and some comments on why the computer made the trades. Perhaps the code or parts of the code that make the decisions. Maybe if the person could summarize the code into pseudo code that would work. (stats) would consist of winners to losers ratio, frequency of trades, average amount a trade makes or loses, how it places the stop or limit, monthly net profit, and stuff like this.

I know you guys did a contest, I just want to know the results. If you know of another tread with this type of proof show me please. I'd be glad to hop off this thread.

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  #205 (permalink)
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Right, let me take each one (and I won't quote them all if that's OK)

Firstly, let's not forget that you don't believe the proof exists, and you will be looking to pick holes in it.

Like just a simple brief report.
- that's tricky - most brokers don't to much of a statistical report. Just a monthly P&L. The sort of report which is convincing is easy to fake (by curve fitting)

A description of what the program does.
- not going to happen, see below

A log of a significant amount of trades.
- not good enough. How many do you need?

Maybe, a monthly log of net profits.
- how many months do you need. Consecutive presumably?

A chart with some trades and some comments on why the computer made the trades.
- not going to happen, see below

Perhaps the code or parts of the code that make the decisions.
- not going to happen, see below

Maybe if the person could summarize the code into pseudo code that would work.
- not going to happen, see below

The ones I've flagged as not going to happen is because no one is going to give you serious clues as to how their winning auto strategy works. Why would they do that? You think they care whether you believe them? What they gave you a really simple strat that was based on parameters calculated overnight by a load of analytics code. It wouldn't impress you would it?

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  #206 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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Xeno View Post
Right, let me take each one (and I won't quote them all if that's OK)

Firstly, let's not forget that you don't believe the proof exists, and you will be looking to pick holes in it.

Like just a simple brief report.
- that's tricky - most brokers don't to much of a statistical report. Just a monthly P&L. The sort of report which is convincing is easy to fake (by curve fitting)

A description of what the program does.
- not going to happen, see below

A log of a significant amount of trades.
- not good enough. How many do you need?

Maybe, a monthly log of net profits.
- how many months do you need. Consecutive presumably?

A chart with some trades and some comments on why the computer made the trades.
- not going to happen, see below

Perhaps the code or parts of the code that make the decisions.
- not going to happen, see below

Maybe if the person could summarize the code into pseudo code that would work.
- not going to happen, see below

The ones I've flagged as not going to happen is because no one is going to give you serious clues as to how their winning auto strategy works. Why would they do that? You think they care whether you believe them? What they gave you a really simple strat that was based on parameters calculated overnight by a load of analytics code. It wouldn't impress you would it?

Well I believe proof does exist. I'm fine with something like what silver dragon showed me. Anything. Its at the automated programmers discretion. Why not? it only takes a few minutes to snap shot, upload, and post a few comments. You can blur private info. I'm not here to scrutinize the code. If you don't want to show me the code at least sum it up in brief statements.

If their code is so secret and they can't share it or trust other people who share theirs, Then why even post against me asking for proof. Why not just Not respond, drive your Lamborghini, and laugh at the doubters. Why do people even feel compelled to say I'm wrong, but can't even back it up.

And yes, It would impress me.
If I programmed an automated system that worked, I'd show some proof. It's not like your disclosing your secret recipe to another company where competition will diminish profits. If a programmer did shed clues to me It would probably inspire me and I'd consider them a smart/genuine trader and believer in their methods. It's not like I'm going to reverse engineer their code and take away their money.

Come on now, give me a break.

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  #207 (permalink)
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sidney7g View Post
Well I believe proof does exist. I'm fine with something like what silver dragon showed me. Anything. Its at the automated programmers discretion. Why not? it only takes a few minutes to snap shot, upload, and post a few comments. You can blur private info. I'm not here to scrutinize the code. If you don't want to show me the code at least sum it up in brief statements.

If their code is so secret and they can't share it or trust other people who share theirs, Then why even post against me asking for proof. Why not just Not respond, drive your Lamborghini, and laugh at the doubters. Why do people even feel compelled to say I'm wrong, but can't even back it up.

If I programmed an automated system that worked, I'd show some proof. It's not like your disclosing your secret recipe to another company where competition will diminish profits. If a programmer did shed clues to me It would probably inspire me and I'd consider them a smart/genuine trader and believer in their methods. It's not like I'm going to reverse engineer their code and take away their money.

Come on now, give me a break.

Why would I share my code earned through blood and sweat with anyone. If I have a profitable strategy I don't want to crowd my trade and make it harder to scale. I doubt to many would be willing to share their bread and butter in a forum. They might throw an old strategy or something up for kicks into the bot wars. But bread and butter no way. I have even had several ask me if I would rent my strategy out and I said sorry but can't do it. Why? because I can make more trading it myself than renting it and putting other people on it would only make my ability to scale harder.

If you are truly interested in mechanical auto trading and not here just to irritate then go earn it, find it, back test it, work at it. No one is going to be willing to do the work for you. In fact I could care less if you auto trade or not. I don't even care if you blow out your account as that can be a great education. I don't post in these forums to prove anything. I just enjoy the debate.

If you feel like by asking for proof and no one is willing to offer you proof that you somehow validate your point that mechanical auto systems don't make money you are gravely wrong.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #208 (permalink)
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Quoting 
Well I believe proof does exist. I'm fine with something like what silver dragon showed me. Anything. Its at the automated programmers discretion.

So you've already seen proof? Or the figures weren't good enough?? How many months/trades convinces you? You still haven't answered that.


Quoting 
If their code is so secret and they can't share it or trust other people who share theirs, Then why even post against me asking for proof. Why not just Not respond, drive your Lamborghini, and laugh at the doubters. Why do people even feel compelled to say I'm wrong, but can't even back it up.

I don't think anyone is asking you for proof. And actually how do you know there are no successful auto traders who have ignored your posts. I know of at least two.


Quoting 
And yes, It would impress me.
If I programmed an automated system that worked, I'd show some proof. It's not like

Sorry, I guess they just don't need the online kudos.

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  #209 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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Xeno View Post
So you've already seen proof? Or the figures weren't good enough?? How many months/trades convinces you? You still haven't answered that.

I have not seen proof. 6 months to a year. over 100 trades.



Xeno View Post
I don't think anyone is asking you for proof. And actually how do you know there are no successful auto traders who have ignored your posts. I know of at least two.

well please ask those two to just send a private message to me confirming this.


Xeno View Post
Sorry, I guess they just don't need the online kudos.

I'm don't expect them to want the kudos. I just find it common courtesy to share proof if they are truly successful with it.

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  #210 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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liquidcci View Post
Why would I share my code earned through blood and sweat with anyone. If I have a profitable strategy I don't want to crowd my trade and make it harder to scale. I doubt to many would be willing to share their bread and butter in a forum.

Take a snap shot of your trading logs instead of your code. If you can, include a 6 month to a year time frame. This way you won't share your code but can validate that Automation did truly conquer your darkside.

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