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Auto trading is only thing that conquered my darkside
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Auto trading is only thing that conquered my darkside

  #171 (permalink)
Elite Member
Austin, TX
 
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sidney7g View Post
Look dude my whole point is simply -

Discretionary trading is not gambling if you follow the rules that make you profitable. It is only when you gamble do you lose your account.

If you can't agree with me on that simple idea then I have nothing else to say.

Discretionary trading has definitive rules, sometimes a lot depending on the person, sometimes different rules in different situations. I agree with the fact that gambling tenancies have the likelihood to arise at some points while trading, but you need to take the precautions against this. you can't just discredit discretionary trading all together because of gambling.

Saying that its impossible to overcome gambling while trading discretionary is ludicrous.

If your system is losing and your not gambling you need to find a better system. There should be no reason to lose your whole account in any scenario trading 1-2% per trade if you pull yourself out of it after a few bad trades and find a better system through sim. or see what you did wrong by rechecking your charts and journal.

A mechanical system has definitive rules. A discretionary system may have rules but they are discretionary not definitive. That discretion because cannot be measured with probabilities is what will eventually bust an account.
What you have described as discretionary sounds more like mechanical.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #172 (permalink)
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sidney7g View Post
If you can't agree with me on that simple idea then I have nothing else to say.

Dude, they have no intention of agree with you at all. You should have went HERE before you engaged in this thread. At least you would see how childish this argument is.

Now you have wasted your time and emotion.

Just follow the logic...Man is Flawed, Man design program, thus Program is Flawed.

Once again, CLICK HERE to see how this Chicken/Egg bar discussion, Man vs Women Oprah show talk, and Chevy or Ford type discussions always ends...or does it?

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." --- "Therefore, I Believe it and I will see it. And every day and in every way, I am healthier, wealthier, and wiser."
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  #173 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Philadelphia
 
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liquidcci View Post
A mechanical system has definitive rules. A discretionary system may have rules but they are discretionary not definitive. That discretion because cannot be measured with probabilities is what will eventually bust an account.
What you have described as discretionary sounds more like mechanical.

I agree with you on this in a general sense, but most mechanical systems have some discretion. If you're a truly active trader and want to trade a variety of setups, it is at your discretion which system to use and how firmly to use it based on how the market is reacting and how much you have to risk. A lot of it comes circumstantially. If you make a significant surplus in one day trading mechanically and want to risk the extra surplus with a little discretion thats up to you. It is only when you don't stop at your daily limit and break your rule of how much to risk discretionary do you start to trading in a disastrous way. This is where you need psychological skill, when to stop and revert to strict mechanics.

also, it seems like you're doubting mechanical systems too because you've tried using rules and that didn't work either. However, I can understand why you doubt purely 'discretionary' systems from being successful longterm. But, you shouldn't discredit mechanical systems because of discretionary gambling tendencies or gambling tendencies in general with manual trading.

If you can't transition out of discretionary into mechanical when you've surpassed your limit of how much you loss, of course your going to lose more then you wanted. That's a very common problem, but it's not impossible to overcome.

I heard a long time ago from a trader on youtube, a test to see if you can make it in trading is go to a casino for a weekend with 5000 dollars, gamble 1000 and stop. Hold on to the rest while spectating other people gamble, and if you don't gamble the rest by the end of the weekend you have potential.

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  #174 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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rtrade View Post
Dude, they have no intention of agree with you at all. You should have went HERE before you engaged in this thread. At least you would see how childish this argument is.

Now you have wasted your time and emotion.

Just follow the logic...Man is Flawed, Man design program, thus Program is Flawed.

Once again, CLICK HERE to see how this Chicken/Egg bar discussion, Man vs Women Oprah show talk, and Chevy or Ford type discussions always ends...or does it?


LOL I have a lot of time on my hands that's why I am a trader, But I enjoy debating otherwise I wouldn't find the answers I truly need. I can agree to disagree but I will challenge and defend any statements that aren't proven or verified. If someone's not willing to verify it then It cannot go any further.

I believe there are definitive answers to things based on verification and your view point like the chicken and the egg based on science is -
"The modern chicken was believed to have descended from another closely related species of birds, the red junglefowl, but recently discovered genetic evidence suggests that the modern domestic chicken is a hybrid descendant of both the red junglefowl and the grey junglefowl.[14] Assuming the evidence bears out, a hybrid is a compelling scenario that the chicken egg, based on the second definition, came before the chicken." - Chicken or the egg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think all things should be challenged that way only the strongest survive. If authority and wild claims aren't challenged whose to say what type of corrupt shit you'd hear. If anything, I think I'm doing everyone a favor. If you think I'm annoying then just skip over my post. I am not holding a gun to your head to read it. I'm not making fun of people, but raising valid points I need clarity on. This is a learning process for me too. And, I'm truly sorry to anyone who wants to wack me over the head lol.

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  #175 (permalink)
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Gentlemen - clearly the biggest tragedy of this heated (and somewhat circular) (and somewhat ridiculous) debate is that you are all ignoring the incredible insights and clarity of argument that were all too evident in this post before it all started. wtf?


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  #176 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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yeah yeah yeah, I still want more proof that a retail automated system outside of simulation works long term. I have yet to find it. Only person that came close was Silver dragon on page 5. Can someone direct me to a post with proof, or show me proof, so we can end it.

I am not an elite member and I know there was a contest of automated systems, What was the result?

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  #177 (permalink)
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sidney7g View Post
I agree with you on this in a general sense, but most mechanical systems have some discretion. If you're a truly active trader and want to trade a variety of setups, it is at your discretion which system to use and how firmly to use it based on how the market is reacting and how much you have to risk. A lot of it comes circumstantially. If you make a significant surplus in one day trading mechanically and want to risk the extra surplus with a little discretion thats up to you. It is only when you don't stop at your daily limit and break your rule of how much to risk discretionary do you start to trading in a disastrous way. This is where you need psychological skill, when to stop and revert to strict mechanics.
.

This is not true. Most mechanical systems don't leave room for discretion. Most mechanical traders would tell you once they move into discretion they have violated their rules. What you have described here is a recipe for absolute disaster. It is clear you do not understand mechanical systems or what it means to trade with probabilities.

Round and round we go where stop nobody knows.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #178 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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liquidcci View Post
This is not true. Most mechanical systems don't leave room for discretion. Most mechanical traders would tell you once they move into discretion they have violated their rules. What you have described here is a recipe for absolute disaster. It is clear you do not understand mechanical systems or what it means to trade with probabilities.

Round and round we go where stop nobody knows.

Well I am a mechanical trader and when I move into discretion and lose a certain amount of predetermined money I am not violating my rules. It is only when I cannot switch back to mechanical and continue with discretion do I violate my rules, and that hasn't happened. It is a balancing act. If what you mean by 'move into discretion', as pure gambling without the ability to stop, then sure you'll blow your account. Discretionary trading isn't just blindly placing a trade, Its intuition from watching the market for hundreds of hours and understanding what is going on. Patterns click sometimes outside your regular defined methods. Everything, in essence, is a pattern. It is only when you ignorantly go against your money management do you mess up with this.

It can't be a disaster if you stop. If you stopped discretion at 100k we wouldn't be having this discussion.

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  #179 (permalink)
Fortitudo et Honor
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"It's better to be lucky than good."

If you're ever making trades by "gut feel", "intuition" "je ne sais quois" or any other "too complicated to put your finger on method" then my hat goes off to you. Good luck with that. I hope it turns out well for you. Like the opening line says....

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  #180 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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RM99 View Post
"It's better to be lucky than good."

If you're ever making trades by "gut feel", "intuition" "je ne sais quois" or any other "too complicated to put your finger on method" then my hat goes off to you. Good luck with that. I hope it turns out well for you. Like the opening line says....

It's not luck, It's conditioning the brain to spot good opportunities through observing the market day in and day out. Like I said before as an example, Trade the chartgame.com from 10k to 100k without indicators or statistics. Learn to trade only promising patterns. When you get to 100k tell me if it was luck. Don't give up if you fail.

You will truly understand the difference between gambling and discretionary trading.

prt scrn your Trading log from chartgame.com when you get to 100k. after this, we'll talk.

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