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Auto trading is only thing that conquered my darkside
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Auto trading is only thing that conquered my darkside

  #161 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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Seriously if you were a trader on wall street making it to millions trading with other people's money and then spontaneously one day, or even over the course of many days or months, lost it all through obsessive gambling you'd be fired. Kaput. Trading is risky, thats the job at hand, theres no way to get around it with programming or not. Anyone who entertains the idea there is an easy shortcut, be my guest. try to use it for the how many odd years you'll continue trading. I guarantee you'll end up changing it so much you might as well just trade like you once did. Any one person programming an automated system Is like any one avid gamer deciding to make a video game and launch it out to the public. You need many people to successfully beat the market with a computer over time. It requires skill sets that outmatch any one person. There are successful bots but not many among retail traders. Why aren't Forex bots any good at trading directionally? maybe because it's next to impossible and if it was possible they wouldn't need to sell it. How do you over come your dark-side when your system fails and your sitting there with a similar sense of grief?

Give me a break.

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  #162 (permalink)
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rpm123 View Post
But discretionary does not mean gambling from the gut. Show me a trader without rules, well, he won't be around long.

If this is how you truly feel rpm123 why are you giving thanks to liquidcci after he replied against my idea that 'discretionary trading shouldn't be discredited by compulsive gamblers'

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  #163 (permalink)
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liquidcci View Post
Dr. Phil (sidney7)since you are infatuated with me and can't get me out of your head let me clarify. I traded discretionary for around 7 years. Yes 3 different times I took my account from 5k to over 100k but ultimately gave it all back to the market. Why? Because discretionary is fatally flawed. I think what may offend you and is driving you to diatribes is thought you can be successful at it yet on your way to a plane crash.

What offends me is that you say discretionary trading is flawed but can't admit that it is your gambling tendency that flawed it.

The system that got you from 5k to 100k doesn't seem flawed. This is why its hard for me to give you credit as to losing your account based on that same system rather then your gambling.

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  #164 (permalink)
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monpere View Post

I will just say this, I only trade 2 setups, so I could not even possibly have level 3 and level 4 trades And, the moment I consider one of these setups 'risky', it will be dropped from my trading plan. My advice is, trade 1 setup, and know that setup inside and out, be able to recognize that setup in your sleep. I can look at a chart for 1.5 seconds, and tell you I see 6 of my setups on that chart, and I know I'll probably win at least 4 of them. No analysis, no trade rating, no pontification, no drawing lines, no calculations, no market theory, no debate, no fear. All that stuff was considered 5 years ago when I was developing the setups, so it is all built in.


And monpere offends me by claiming he has an automated system, not a discretionary system, when this is his reply to me asking him for the automated system he uses on another thread

https://futures.io/psychology-money-management/5354-really-afraid-trade-10.html

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  #165 (permalink)
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sidney7g View Post
If this is how you truly feel rpm123 why are you giving thanks to liquidcci after he replied against my idea that 'discretionary trading shouldn't be discredited by compulsive gamblers'

Dude, instead of attacking everyone, being an antagonist, and PMS'ing all over the place, please provide some coherent, constructive points instead. This is the nature of this forum. No one is here to show their account statements, or prove to you they are successful, or prove to you their system works, or prove your system does not. Everyone is just presenting the ideas, thoughts and reasoning behind what their beliefs are. That is the nature of this forum, and thats' what is expected of each poster, otherwise they just become a nuisance.

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The following 3 users say Thank You to monpere for this post:
 
  #166 (permalink)
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sidney7g View Post
They are entertaining it because I have valid points. I majored in computer science in college, But that shouldn't even matter. I don't need to know anything to challenge peoples ideas. just like you,
Monpere, have found it your way to negate all of my ideas in almost all of my posts.

If you guys believe whole heartedly in automated trading being the savior or all saviors to discretion, why not leverage out every trade it wants since it's "statistics" back it up? If you guys are so great at programming why not work for a trading firm on a team of other programmers getting paid a stable wage?

If you sincerely have made a significant portion of money trading through automation I want to see proof in live form not simulation, I want to see code, I want to see the trades it made and why. If not, how can you really reject any criticism? If not, it's all just speculation.

Ban me if you want, But i'm sure a lot of other people are wondering the same thing, they just don't have the guts to come out and say it.


sidney I think it is obvious you don't understand what mechanical traders do our how auto trade systems work. I don't have a problem with your lack of understanding but you really should not come attacking what you do not understand. I would not show my code or even sell my code. No reason to show stats as that can all be fabricated and there is no real proof that can be offered in a forum like this. Even if there was a way to do it I am not here to prove anything just have a civil discussion.

Maybe this conversation could make some discretionary traders doubt their ability to beat the market. That was not the intent of this thread. But I don't consider it a bad thing as it is my sincere belief it will save them a lot of money and get them to look down the right path. Really should doubt because if not trading probabilities you are just hanging your hat on thin air. Likewise you can attack the viability of system trading all day long and I won't doubt myself one bit. Why? Because my executed trades are highly probable outcomes and the numbers do not lie.


I will quote your own signature line

"Every battle is won before it is ever fought" - Sun Tzu"

This is precisely the approach system traders take to the market. We calculate the odds and follow those odds giving us the highest probability of victory.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #167 (permalink)
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sidney7g View Post
What offends me is that you say discretionary trading is flawed but can't admit that it is your gambling tendency that flawed it.

The system that got you from 5k to 100k doesn't seem flawed. This is why its hard for me to give you credit as to losing your account based on that same system rather then your gambling.

Please read below from a previous post I put up because it is clear you are not getting it. Also come on you attack rpm123 for giving me a "thanks" and reading into why he gave me the thanks. Get constructive and stop going off on everyone. These kind of temper tantrums do reflect emotional behaviors of someone who will eventually bust their trading account. I can play Dr. Phil to.

"Dr. Phil (sidney7)since you are infatuated with me and can't get me out of your head let me clarify. I traded discretionary for around 7 years. Yes 3 different times I took my account from 5k to over 100k but ultimately gave it all back to the market. Why? Because discretionary is fatally flawed. I think what may offend you and is driving you to diatribes is thought you can be successful at it yet on your way to a plane crash. I realize it is hard to come to that realization but better now to stop and form a mechanical system before you blow your account out. I am not saying have to automate although automation has some great benefits. I am saying a rules based system that is based on solid probabilities with good money management is the only way to win in the market long term.

Let me also clarify that my original post in this thread was not in my discretionary days. That original post speaks of my transition from discretionary to mechanical. I was developing a system and would abandon it's rules because I had so much discretionary baggage that still need to be purged from system. I was like a recovering discretionaryaholic that would go on wild binges. It was dark it was ugly and it was automation that finally got me over the hump and allowed me to let my system run which has lead to a nice equity curve.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #168 (permalink)
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Well liquidcci I am sorry I have upset this discussion, but my underlying belief that 'automation isn't profitable long term to the extent of discretionary trading' has yet to be resolved.

I guess If no one is really willing to show me proof that it works long term in retail then I'll be left questioning. Just like Hearing someone got abducted by aliens who can't show me pictures or proof.

All I know is I'd much rather take 5k to 100k, put 95k into the bank along the way and do it again a few times with out losing my whole bank account in one day. That seems like a lot better of a method.

I mean even you taking 5k to 100k is highly debatable but i'll leave that alone.

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  #169 (permalink)
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sidney7g View Post
Well liquidcci I am sorry I have upset this discussion, but my underlying belief that 'automation isn't profitable long term to the extent of discretionary trading' has yet to be resolved.

I guess If no one is really willing to show me proof that it works long term in retail then I'll be left questioning. Just like Hearing someone got abducted by aliens who can't show me pictures or proof.

All I know is I'd much rather take 5k to 100k, put 95k into the bank along the way and do it again a few times with out losing my whole bank account in one day. That seems like a lot better of a method.

I mean even you taking 5k to 100k is highly debatable but i'll leave that alone.

I am not asking you to leave the discussion but honestly you are getting a little out of hand. I don't mind debate and encourage it but no need to attack everyone. Trading discretionary is like gambling in a casino if you play long enough the house will take your money. Thus why that 95 k did not end up in the bank. Also it was 5k to over 100k 3 separate times in a 7 year period. Yes it is very possible but the house will take it back if you continue to trade that way.

Trading mechanical is determining what the odds are and essentially becoming the house thus geometric growth.

You won't get proof here. I could show you a picture of an alien and you would not believe it was a real alien. I think only way you get proof is to eventually blow your account discretionary then dazed and confused make your way towards mechanical.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #170 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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Look dude my whole point is simply -

Discretionary trading is not gambling if you follow the rules that make you profitable. It is only when you gamble do you lose your account.

If you can't agree with me on that simple idea then I have nothing else to say.

Discretionary trading has definitive rules, sometimes a lot depending on the person, sometimes different rules in different situations. I agree with the fact that gambling tenancies have the likelihood to arise at some points while trading, but you need to take the precautions against this. you can't just discredit discretionary trading all together because of gambling.

Saying that its impossible to overcome gambling while trading discretionary is ludicrous.

If your system is losing and your not gambling you need to find a better system. There should be no reason to lose your whole account in any scenario trading 1-2% per trade if you pull yourself out of it after a few bad trades and find a better system through sim. or see what you did wrong by rechecking your charts and journal.

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