MONEYMANAGEMENT AGGRESSIVELY DAYTRADING E-MINI 500 FUTURES - Psychology and Money Management | futures io social day trading
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  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
Rockland county , New York
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT 7
Favorite Futures: CL, 6E, SI, ZC
whatnext's Avatar
Posts: 235 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 340 given, 80 received

Even for non-leveraged methods I would disagree about investing your nest egg in anything that you don't have an edge in.

An exception could be you have a good reason to feel it will go much higher, have chart confirmation, set protective stop losses and know it will be reasonably liquid.

"Be right and sit tight." - Jesse Livermore
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  #12 (permalink)
Membership Permanently Revoked
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 221 given, 844 received


doubt you have $100K... specially if you are really trading 200 cars a pop... risk management @ the FCM would be taking you at of the trades all the time if you are trying to swing that line at first sign of going against you ... second, if you really are doing it, good luck to you, all my best .. I hope you have more to replenish the account down the road... trading rule #1 is protect your capital.. regardless of whatever edge one might have... if I had about $1MM I would swing that line... otherwise, plain stupid to swing 200 cars with $100K...

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  #13 (permalink)
Watch Your Risk
West Coast
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: X_Trader, Bookmap, R|T
Broker/Data: IQ Feed, TT, Rithmic
Favorite Futures: Index Futures, Energy and Interest Rate spreads
bathrobe's Avatar
Posts: 79 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 50 given, 34 received


A fully leveraged beginner who is asking the most important question imo (and many others) is ridiculous. If you have 100k and actually learned to trade you would have a great place to start from. Also, why don't you hit the Caps lock again.

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  #14 (permalink)
Elite Member
North East
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, Quotetracker
Favorite Futures: ES!
Posts: 10 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 1 given, 2 received

This guy is getting great advice considering he is typing ALL IN CAPS.

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  #15 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Aurora IL
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: E-Signal
Favorite Futures: Futures
Posts: 5 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 1 given, 4 received

I agree completely that you should be seeking to preserve account funds. Smaller trades with consistent strategies are preferable to piling on 200 contracts at a time, especially when you still have to ask the kinds of questions that the OP was asking.

GaryD View Post
Steve (fellow Orlandoan),

I traded a $50k account, went max contract more than once. I was up $25k at one point. Should have turned it off...

The $75k was reduced back to $50k, then to $30k...

The revenge trade section of my brain kicked in. I thought leverage would bring back my money faster. My broker shut me off when the account reached under $500.00.

If you have a $100k account, protect it. That is more important than increasing it. Opportunity will always be there.

If you have not traded in simulation, start there. If you can't be consistently profitable in simulation mode, not just for a few days but for many months, then trading "live" is going to take your money.

I lost millions recently in real estate, and that experience has shown me a lot about myself. I have learned that when anything is removed from your life quickly it creates a vacuum effect. That is why addictions are had to break, why rebound relationships are commonplace, and why we revenge trade. Be careful not to put yourself into that position.

Trade from a defensive approach. Understand your risk/reward and probabilities before you enter the market. Make sure you understand your charts and setups inside and out, forwards and backwards. Be patient.

Good luck!

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  #16 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Aurora IL
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: E-Signal
Favorite Futures: Futures
Posts: 5 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 1 given, 4 received


I work with several systems that do this automatically. They are black boxes. One was up70% last year.

As for my personal charting method, I seek to enter only on very specific, high probability set ups, and then exit as soon as that set up starts to dissolve. I set my stops way outside the most recent level of support and resistance, and prefer to exit if my set up does not hold, before I get drawn down too much.

My way is kind of like trading without stops at all, as I use my stop as an emergency exit if something unforeseen happens; like I have a stroke and almost die, so I can't exit because I awake up in the ambulance.

Obviously it takes a lot of discipline and experience to do this, and a fresh mindset too, so I do not recommend it to newer traders. However, this was my solution to keeping stops as close as possible, but still far enough to breath if need be.

*I* can see if a set up is dissolving or not, and decide if an exit is warranted, or if I should just hang on. A stop loss order ONLY sees if a price is hit or not. Thats why I do it this way. I have never been good with figuring just the *Right* stop placement, as they don't really move well with the changing conditions of the markets. They are hard points of exit.

I know that does not help you, but I thought I would share my perspective. I do not recommend doing this for most people, especially if you suffer form emotional involvement.

As for money management, I seek methods and set ups that win 70% or more of the time, and I will at most play 1/3 of my funds at once, ONLY if I am using a super high percentage set up. However, most of the time I SEEK LIMIT MY ENTRIES TO 10% OF MY FUNDS or less.

Now, there are other ways of looking at this. One of the black boxes I am familiar with has seen maximum drawdowns of $4100 and some change during the 6 years of back testing. Since that is the most it ever drew down during that testing, the minimum to participate in it is 5K. I would not be comfortable with that myself, and would feel better with 15K, but it shows another perspective.

You are going to have to evaluate your trading methods, and risk tolerance to figure it out. None of us can really advise you completely, as my advise is based on MY situation, not yours.

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