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Bookmap vs Jigsaw Daytradr


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Bookmap vs Jigsaw Daytradr

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  #1 (permalink)
Warsaw, Poland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Investor/RT
Trading: Emini ES, German Bund
 
Posts: 50 since Apr 2020
Thanks: 12 given, 11 received

Hi

I'm looking for someone who has tried both of Bookmap and Jigsaw platforms

Can you compare them? What finally you choose?

So far I found that while Bookmap is probably best in class in terms of heatmap functionality, really that's all about it

I'm wondering how Jigsaw built-in heatmap compare with BM

In Jigsaw they have also auto-adjusting large volume dots. Are they as useful as advertised?

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  #2 (permalink)
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 18 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 54 received

I use both. I find Jigsaw is way to easy to place trades and Bookmap is great with seeing a visual of your DOM.
For Charting, I use MotiveWave with Order Flow Analytics because its easy to draw and place volume profiles on it. I also use Trade the News as my news back up.
For me its a great set up. I've used Jigsaw since Peter Davies brought it out several years ago so I'm used to it. The only problem for me is all I see is a bunch of numbers flying by but with Bookmap those numbers turn into colors and its much easier to see when they pull or add orders and I don't have to rely on my failing memory of when the order showed up. I use Rithmic Data for Bookmap only because any other data feed doesn't give you full depth and the new MBO orders like Rithmic. I use IQFeed for charting and my Interactive Brokers for data as well. I recommend Rithmic because they give you a full Depth of Market and MBO orders.
(I hope the picture comes out because you can see the difference with vista vs bookmap)
Any other questions I'd be happy to answer.
600

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  #3 (permalink)
Warsaw, Poland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Investor/RT
Trading: Emini ES, German Bund
 
Posts: 50 since Apr 2020
Thanks: 12 given, 11 received


Don't you find Bookmap and Jigsaw's Auction Vista redundant?

Aren't the smart volume dots in AV better in visualizing areas of high interest?

I don't see such thing in Bookmap

Additionally Jigsaw's DOM seems to be far superior than anything I used before

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  #4 (permalink)
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 18 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 54 received


matzero View Post
Don't you find Bookmap and Jigsaw's Auction Vista redundant?

Aren't the smart volume dots in AV better in visualizing areas of high interest?

I don't see such thing in Bookmap

Additionally Jigsaw's DOM seems to be far superior than anything I used before


>Don't you find Bookmap and Jigsaw's Auction Vista redundant?
I don't use Auction Vista for heat map. Bookmap is far superior in that and reading order flow.

The way I trade is:
1. I do Volume Profile analysis in my longer term charts to find a level where I'm interested in doing business through my homework before the market opens.
2. Wait until it comes up in Bookmap and I look for buyers or sellers entering in that area.
3. Once I see a direction, I use my Jigsaw to enter the trade and manage it.

>Aren't the smart volume dots in AV better in visualizing areas of high interest?
Ah no....

>Additionally Jigsaw's DOM seems to be far superior than anything I used before

I can't disagree with you there, but I know SEVERAL traders that hate Jigsaw. Its on how you learned to use a DOM I guess. I use my jigsaw DOM to manage the trade only.

All I can say is I have spent FRIGGEN YEARS trying everything to be profitable and this method for now is working for me. So, I use both. If for some stupid reason you held a gun to my head to get rid of one of them, I would have to keep Bookmap and get rid of Jigsaw. That is because I see colors better than rolling numbers. Good Luck! Remember they are just tools! How you use them is up to you. Sometimes when I'm working on a car or tractor I end up using a wrench as a hammer. Is a wrench a hammer, NO but if it gets the job done who cares how you use it. (and sometimes I throw that SOB!...)

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  #5 (permalink)
Singapore Singapore
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 9 since May 2020
Thanks: 22 given, 9 received

Hi Flyer873,

Thanks for sharing. How do you compare Rithmic vs IQFeed vs dxFeed?

Do all 3 provide all levels?

How did Rithmic perform during the circuit breakers in Mar when eveything froze? I had problems with CQG at that time.

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  #6 (permalink)
Warsaw, Poland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Investor/RT
Trading: Emini ES, German Bund
 
Posts: 50 since Apr 2020
Thanks: 12 given, 11 received


Rainmakersg View Post
Hi Flyer873,

Thanks for sharing. How do you compare Rithmic vs IQFeed vs dxFeed?

Do all 3 provide all levels?

How did Rithmic perform during the circuit breakers in Mar when eveything froze? I had problems with CQG at that time.

As far I understand with Bookmap you get full order depth only with Rithmic for futures and this is execution feed, so you can make trades using that connection. You order this data feed from your broker and it will be cheaper than non-execution feeds

IQFeed is without order routing, don't know about depth

dxDeed in Bookmap is used only for stocks and give you full market depth for NYSE + EDGX, no order routing

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  #7 (permalink)
Warsaw, Poland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Investor/RT
Trading: Emini ES, German Bund
 
Posts: 50 since Apr 2020
Thanks: 12 given, 11 received


Flyer873 View Post
>[I]All I can say is I have spent FRIGGEN YEARS trying everything to be profitable and this method for now is working for me. So, I use both. If for some stupid reason you held a gun to my head to get rid of one of them, I would have to keep Bookmap and get rid of Jigsaw. That is because I see colors better than rolling numbers. Good Luck! Remember they are just tools! How you use them is up to you. Sometimes when I'm working on a car or tractor I end up using a wrench as a hammer. Is a wrench a hammer, NO but if it gets the job done who cares how you use it. (and sometimes I throw that SOB!...)

I also think that Bookmap is best of heatmaps out there

But I found some limitations

Were you able to configure it in way to show/visualize limit order re-loading at some price level?
I mean for example that price hits bid where there was 100 limit orders, 90 got executed and than they keep adding so it stays 100, and they keep adding and it ends up with 1000 limit orders being absorbed while at most 100 only were visible. Yes I know it ends up with big dot, but sometimes is hard to spot that this dot formed up not from execution on visible limit orders, but after absorption.
Can you share how you handle this kind of situations?

Additionally I've watched Jigsaw videos and it appears that it can show volume profile not for the whole session but just for current rotation. I know there is SVP in Bookmap, but it shows values for a whole session and depending on your setup it's sometimes irrelevant

Have you watched Jigsaw training materials included with licence? What's their quality and possibility of practical application? Some people say they buy Jigsaw only for that videos...

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  #8 (permalink)
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 18 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 54 received


matzero View Post
As far I understand with Bookmap you get full order depth only with Rithmic for futures and this is execution feed, so you can make trades using that connection. You order this data feed from your broker and it will be cheaper than non-execution feeds

IQFeed is without order routing, don't know about depth

dxDeed in Bookmap is used only for stocks and give you full market depth for NYSE + EDGX, no order routing

I'm not to familiar with DXFeed because I've never used it and I don't trade Stocks.
I have a lot of experience with eSignal, Kinetick, IQFeed, Rithmic. I like Rithmic the best because it gives you full depth and I can observe support and resistant levels on my Bookmap 50 ticks away if I want.(IQFeed only gives you 10.) It also has Market By Order (MBO data) that is only available on the CME products, that shows weather the order is a "stop order" or an "iceberg order". Bookmap looks at the ID of an order and knows which type it is. When I see a spike in price I'm able to see if it was due to an Iceburg or a stop orders. If its a stop order being triggered the likelihood of it continuing is most of the time is nill and I'll usually take a trade in the other direction for a scalp. (Not every time but sometimes)
My Broker is Interactive Brokers and will not hook up to Rithmic data, so I have to use IQfeed from DTN if I want to trade off my charting or another DOM. I can use Rithmic if I use Jigsaw Daytrader. ( its the other reason I use Rithmic. It backs up IQFeed if data goes Fun House Mirror.)
So far this year I (Knock on wood) haven't had any trouble with data. When it gets fast I back out anyway. I've stuck my fingers in light sockets one to many times to know what pain feels like so I watch when its days like that.
I hope that answers your questions. Contact me anytime.

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  #9 (permalink)
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  #10 (permalink)
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 18 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 54 received



matzero View Post
I also think that Bookmap is best of heatmaps out there

But I found some limitations

Were you able to configure it in way to show/visualize limit order re-loading at some price level?
I mean for example that price hits bid where there was 100 limit orders, 90 got executed and than they keep adding so it stays 100, and they keep adding and it ends up with 1000 limit orders being absorbed while at most 100 only were visible. Yes I know it ends up with big dot, but sometimes is hard to spot that this dot formed up not from execution on visible limit orders, but after absorption.
Can you share how you handle this kind of situations?

Additionally I've watched Jigsaw videos and it appears that it can show volume profile not for the whole session but just for current rotation. I know there is SVP in Bookmap, but it shows values for a whole session and depending on your setup it's sometimes irrelevant

Have you watched Jigsaw training materials included with licence? What's their quality and possibility of practical application? Some people say they buy Jigsaw only for that videos...

>Were you able to configure it in way to show/visualize limit order re-loading at some price level?
There really isn't anything on Jigsaw that I can't put on Bookmap. I can make the same DOM. I just don't want to go through the pain of learning order entry on Bookmap when I already own Jigsaw. See picture I tried to put the same Jigsaw Dom on Bookmap. It just looks different and I like Jigsaw better because I'm use to it only. If I spent time using the bookmap dom I'd probably like it better.
607

As far as seeing Stop order or Icebergs and refreshing the bid. No difference other than if you want to see further into the order you can zoom up. I posted a spike and you can see where there were stop orders being triggered by the red line in the lower indicator. So the one Big Red dot in the above (white circle) picture 607 is zoomed up is shown in 608. You can see there were several orders from that Algo being sent off.
608

There is an Iceberg detector in Bookmap, but I use Jigsaw alerts to announce big orders as well and I like it better.
I've taken just about every Jigsaw training they have to offer. I even bought a mentorship with Peter Davies that was great. I got to talk to him and learned alot. I also used No BS trading with John Grady and took his course a few times, years ago. I just didn't like trading Bonds it was too slow for me, but probably easier to trade if you pay attention. I used Axia Futures DOM Training that was so in-depth that I got lost in it.
After taking just about every course there is to take so I can learn order flow, I think the best was from Bruce Pringle at Bookmap. And the funny thing is its free when you use Bookmap.
Good luck.

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