Bookmap vs Jigsaw Daytradr - futures io
futures io



Bookmap vs Jigsaw Daytradr


Discussion in Platforms and Indicators

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one Flyer873 with 16 posts (62 thanks)
    2. looks_two Bookmap with 13 posts (24 thanks)
    3. looks_3 matzero with 8 posts (14 thanks)
    4. looks_4 shokunin with 5 posts (11 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one Flyer873 with 3.9 thanks per post
    2. looks_two shokunin with 2.2 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 Bookmap with 1.8 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 matzero with 1.8 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 33,891 views
    2. thumb_up 186 thanks given
    3. group 383 followers
    1. forum 90 posts
    2. attach_file 14 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Bookmap vs Jigsaw Daytradr

(login for full post details)
  #1 (permalink)
 matzero 
Warsaw, Poland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Denali/Rythmic
Trading: ES, NQ, YM, RTY
 
Posts: 59 since Apr 2020
Thanks: 24 given, 30 received

Hi

I'm looking for someone who has tried both of Bookmap and Jigsaw platforms

Can you compare them? What finally you choose?

So far I found that while Bookmap is probably best in class in terms of heatmap functionality, really that's all about it

I'm wondering how Jigsaw built-in heatmap compare with BM

In Jigsaw they have also auto-adjusting large volume dots. Are they as useful as advertised?

Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to matzero for this post:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on futures io?
Multichart NET: where can i find esplanation on CustomIn …
MultiCharts
Indicator from a HTF on a LTF chart
NinjaTrader
Is there a way to rename an existing trade?
MultiCharts
Simple "runner" code
EasyLanguage Programming
1-min Intrabar indicator
MultiCharts
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
How much do you know about Bitcoin?
113 thanks
I finally blew up an account
39 thanks
FIO Journal Challenge - April 2021 w/Jigsaw Trading
38 thanks
Big Mike in Ecuador
27 thanks
The tiyfTradePlanFactory indicator
23 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #2 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received

I use both. I find Jigsaw is way to easy to place trades and Bookmap is great with seeing a visual of your DOM.
For Charting, I use MotiveWave with Order Flow Analytics because its easy to draw and place volume profiles on it. I also use Trade the News as my news back up.
For me its a great set up. I've used Jigsaw since Peter Davies brought it out several years ago so I'm used to it. The only problem for me is all I see is a bunch of numbers flying by but with Bookmap those numbers turn into colors and its much easier to see when they pull or add orders and I don't have to rely on my failing memory of when the order showed up. I use Rithmic Data for Bookmap only because any other data feed doesn't give you full depth and the new MBO orders like Rithmic. I use IQFeed for charting and my Interactive Brokers for data as well. I recommend Rithmic because they give you a full Depth of Market and MBO orders.
(I hope the picture comes out because you can see the difference with vista vs bookmap)
Any other questions I'd be happy to answer.
600

Reply With Quote
The following 16 users say Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #3 (permalink)
 matzero 
Warsaw, Poland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Denali/Rythmic
Trading: ES, NQ, YM, RTY
 
Posts: 59 since Apr 2020
Thanks: 24 given, 30 received


Don't you find Bookmap and Jigsaw's Auction Vista redundant?

Aren't the smart volume dots in AV better in visualizing areas of high interest?

I don't see such thing in Bookmap

Additionally Jigsaw's DOM seems to be far superior than anything I used before

Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to matzero for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #4 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received


matzero View Post
Don't you find Bookmap and Jigsaw's Auction Vista redundant?

Aren't the smart volume dots in AV better in visualizing areas of high interest?

I don't see such thing in Bookmap

Additionally Jigsaw's DOM seems to be far superior than anything I used before


>Don't you find Bookmap and Jigsaw's Auction Vista redundant?
I don't use Auction Vista for heat map. Bookmap is far superior in that and reading order flow.

The way I trade is:
1. I do Volume Profile analysis in my longer term charts to find a level where I'm interested in doing business through my homework before the market opens.
2. Wait until it comes up in Bookmap and I look for buyers or sellers entering in that area.
3. Once I see a direction, I use my Jigsaw to enter the trade and manage it.

>Aren't the smart volume dots in AV better in visualizing areas of high interest?
Ah no....

>Additionally Jigsaw's DOM seems to be far superior than anything I used before

I can't disagree with you there, but I know SEVERAL traders that hate Jigsaw. Its on how you learned to use a DOM I guess. I use my jigsaw DOM to manage the trade only.

All I can say is I have spent FRIGGEN YEARS trying everything to be profitable and this method for now is working for me. So, I use both. If for some stupid reason you held a gun to my head to get rid of one of them, I would have to keep Bookmap and get rid of Jigsaw. That is because I see colors better than rolling numbers. Good Luck! Remember they are just tools! How you use them is up to you. Sometimes when I'm working on a car or tractor I end up using a wrench as a hammer. Is a wrench a hammer, NO but if it gets the job done who cares how you use it. (and sometimes I throw that SOB!...)

Reply With Quote
The following 11 users say Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #5 (permalink)
 Rainmakersg 
Singapore Singapore
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 10 since May 2020
Thanks: 24 given, 14 received

Hi Flyer873,

Thanks for sharing. How do you compare Rithmic vs IQFeed vs dxFeed?

Do all 3 provide all levels?

How did Rithmic perform during the circuit breakers in Mar when eveything froze? I had problems with CQG at that time.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Rainmakersg for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #6 (permalink)
 matzero 
Warsaw, Poland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Denali/Rythmic
Trading: ES, NQ, YM, RTY
 
Posts: 59 since Apr 2020
Thanks: 24 given, 30 received


Rainmakersg View Post
Hi Flyer873,

Thanks for sharing. How do you compare Rithmic vs IQFeed vs dxFeed?

Do all 3 provide all levels?

How did Rithmic perform during the circuit breakers in Mar when eveything froze? I had problems with CQG at that time.

As far I understand with Bookmap you get full order depth only with Rithmic for futures and this is execution feed, so you can make trades using that connection. You order this data feed from your broker and it will be cheaper than non-execution feeds

IQFeed is without order routing, don't know about depth

dxDeed in Bookmap is used only for stocks and give you full market depth for NYSE + EDGX, no order routing

Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to matzero for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #7 (permalink)
 matzero 
Warsaw, Poland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Denali/Rythmic
Trading: ES, NQ, YM, RTY
 
Posts: 59 since Apr 2020
Thanks: 24 given, 30 received


Flyer873 View Post
>[I]All I can say is I have spent FRIGGEN YEARS trying everything to be profitable and this method for now is working for me. So, I use both. If for some stupid reason you held a gun to my head to get rid of one of them, I would have to keep Bookmap and get rid of Jigsaw. That is because I see colors better than rolling numbers. Good Luck! Remember they are just tools! How you use them is up to you. Sometimes when I'm working on a car or tractor I end up using a wrench as a hammer. Is a wrench a hammer, NO but if it gets the job done who cares how you use it. (and sometimes I throw that SOB!...)

I also think that Bookmap is best of heatmaps out there

But I found some limitations

Were you able to configure it in way to show/visualize limit order re-loading at some price level?
I mean for example that price hits bid where there was 100 limit orders, 90 got executed and than they keep adding so it stays 100, and they keep adding and it ends up with 1000 limit orders being absorbed while at most 100 only were visible. Yes I know it ends up with big dot, but sometimes is hard to spot that this dot formed up not from execution on visible limit orders, but after absorption.
Can you share how you handle this kind of situations?

Additionally I've watched Jigsaw videos and it appears that it can show volume profile not for the whole session but just for current rotation. I know there is SVP in Bookmap, but it shows values for a whole session and depending on your setup it's sometimes irrelevant

Have you watched Jigsaw training materials included with licence? What's their quality and possibility of practical application? Some people say they buy Jigsaw only for that videos...

Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to matzero for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #8 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received


matzero View Post
As far I understand with Bookmap you get full order depth only with Rithmic for futures and this is execution feed, so you can make trades using that connection. You order this data feed from your broker and it will be cheaper than non-execution feeds

IQFeed is without order routing, don't know about depth

dxDeed in Bookmap is used only for stocks and give you full market depth for NYSE + EDGX, no order routing

I'm not to familiar with DXFeed because I've never used it and I don't trade Stocks.
I have a lot of experience with eSignal, Kinetick, IQFeed, Rithmic. I like Rithmic the best because it gives you full depth and I can observe support and resistant levels on my Bookmap 50 ticks away if I want.(IQFeed only gives you 10.) It also has Market By Order (MBO data) that is only available on the CME products, that shows weather the order is a "stop order" or an "iceberg order". Bookmap looks at the ID of an order and knows which type it is. When I see a spike in price I'm able to see if it was due to an Iceburg or a stop orders. If its a stop order being triggered the likelihood of it continuing is most of the time is nill and I'll usually take a trade in the other direction for a scalp. (Not every time but sometimes)
My Broker is Interactive Brokers and will not hook up to Rithmic data, so I have to use IQfeed from DTN if I want to trade off my charting or another DOM. I can use Rithmic if I use Jigsaw Daytrader. ( its the other reason I use Rithmic. It backs up IQFeed if data goes Fun House Mirror.)
So far this year I (Knock on wood) haven't had any trouble with data. When it gets fast I back out anyway. I've stuck my fingers in light sockets one to many times to know what pain feels like so I watch when its days like that.
I hope that answers your questions. Contact me anytime.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #9 (permalink)
 Jigsaw Trading  Jigsaw Trading is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: Jigsaw Trading
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: Jigsaw Trading Webinars
Elite offer: Click here
 
 
Jigsaw Trading's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,982 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 825 given, 10,327 received

This is like Mountain Bikes.

There's never going to be just 1 brand. I like Trek, my wife likes Giant. Different people are attracted to different brands and personalities.

It's nice to be discussed in a group of 2 though.

Suck that Cannondale!

If you have any questions about the products or services provided, please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Jigsaw Trading for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #10 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received



matzero View Post
I also think that Bookmap is best of heatmaps out there

But I found some limitations

Were you able to configure it in way to show/visualize limit order re-loading at some price level?
I mean for example that price hits bid where there was 100 limit orders, 90 got executed and than they keep adding so it stays 100, and they keep adding and it ends up with 1000 limit orders being absorbed while at most 100 only were visible. Yes I know it ends up with big dot, but sometimes is hard to spot that this dot formed up not from execution on visible limit orders, but after absorption.
Can you share how you handle this kind of situations?

Additionally I've watched Jigsaw videos and it appears that it can show volume profile not for the whole session but just for current rotation. I know there is SVP in Bookmap, but it shows values for a whole session and depending on your setup it's sometimes irrelevant

Have you watched Jigsaw training materials included with licence? What's their quality and possibility of practical application? Some people say they buy Jigsaw only for that videos...

>Were you able to configure it in way to show/visualize limit order re-loading at some price level?
There really isn't anything on Jigsaw that I can't put on Bookmap. I can make the same DOM. I just don't want to go through the pain of learning order entry on Bookmap when I already own Jigsaw. See picture I tried to put the same Jigsaw Dom on Bookmap. It just looks different and I like Jigsaw better because I'm use to it only. If I spent time using the bookmap dom I'd probably like it better.
607

As far as seeing Stop order or Icebergs and refreshing the bid. No difference other than if you want to see further into the order you can zoom up. I posted a spike and you can see where there were stop orders being triggered by the red line in the lower indicator. So the one Big Red dot in the above (white circle) picture 607 is zoomed up is shown in 608. You can see there were several orders from that Algo being sent off.
608

There is an Iceberg detector in Bookmap, but I use Jigsaw alerts to announce big orders as well and I like it better.
I've taken just about every Jigsaw training they have to offer. I even bought a mentorship with Peter Davies that was great. I got to talk to him and learned alot. I also used No BS trading with John Grady and took his course a few times, years ago. I just didn't like trading Bonds it was too slow for me, but probably easier to trade if you pay attention. I used Axia Futures DOM Training that was so in-depth that I got lost in it.
After taking just about every course there is to take so I can learn order flow, I think the best was from Bruce Pringle at Bookmap. And the funny thing is its free when you use Bookmap.
Good luck.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #11 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received


Jigsaw Trading View Post
This is like Mountain Bikes.

There's never going to be just 1 brand. I like Trek, my wife likes Giant. Different people are attracted to different brands and personalities.

It's nice to be discussed in a group of 2 though.

Suck that Cannondale!

Exactly Peter!!! Exactly
How you doing? Texas is wet and boring. Its rained so much our cows are going blind. They are dragging their tail in the mud and its pulling the skin over their eyes!.....LOL
Carl....

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #12 (permalink)
 Jigsaw Trading  Jigsaw Trading is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: Jigsaw Trading
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: Jigsaw Trading Webinars
Elite offer: Click here
 
 
Jigsaw Trading's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,982 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 825 given, 10,327 received


Flyer873 View Post
Exactly Peter!!! Exactly
How you doing? Texas is wet and boring. Its rained so much our cows are going blind. They are dragging their tail in the mud and its pulling the skin over their eyes!.....LOL
Carl....

Hey Carl - I am going out of my mind with boredom being locked down in Bangkok - you should book a call - probably owe you a few

On the bright side...

err....

.....


Nope - I got nothing....

If you have any questions about the products or services provided, please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Jigsaw Trading for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #13 (permalink)
 matthew28 
Legendary Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw daytradr
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
matthew28's Avatar
 
Posts: 994 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 2,500 given, 1,824 received


matzero View Post
Additionally I've watched Jigsaw videos and it appears that it can show volume profile not for the whole session but just for current rotation. I know there is SVP in Bookmap, but it shows values for a whole session and depending on your setup it's sometimes irrelevant

You can show the volume profile for the whole ETH session or RTH session on the DOM, or any session you specify from the sessions menu, or make your own custom session.
With Jigsaw the order book details and exact volume come from the DOM, you can have Vista open if you like. So all the information is on two windows rather than one Bookmap window. Therefore the Vista chart can be compressed to show lots of range if say trading the Nasdaq, but the DOM can still be at a size to read volume traded and the orderbook at an individual level. Bookmap on the other hand is all together so if you compress it down to see the days swings in a thin instrument, you can no longer read what is happening at individual levels because the orderbook and traded volume is consolidated. Horses for courses.

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #14 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received

609

When I get ready to trade this is all I look at to place and manage the trade. I watch Bookmap and place the trade on Jigsaw. Easy EASY

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #15 (permalink)
 theprophe 
prague,czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Irt,bookmap
Broker: Edgeclear
Trading: Mes
 
Posts: 41 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 47 given, 37 received

thanks for the posts. I find placing trades and managing them with bookmap one of the best things besides the heatmap. Why do you find placing trades with jigsaw better?

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to theprophe for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #16 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received


theprophe View Post
thanks for the posts. I find placing trades and managing them with bookmap one of the best things besides the heatmap. Why do you find placing trades with jigsaw better?

The simple answer is, I know how to use Jigsaw better.
The other reason is, I look at correlated markets before I make a trade. Why do you want to go long ES if you see the NQ, RTY or YM ticking down? I also look at ZN, ZB they are usually going opposite of ES. SO, if the ZN is ticking up I don't and wont go long ES. Charts and Bookmap are too big and I can look at a DOM faster. I can center all the DOM's with a click of my mouse and if I'm wanting to go long ES, I want to see NQ and YM going that direction. SO If I see NQ and YM north of center line I take ES LONG. Charts don't tell you what is happening RIGHT NOW where as Centered DOM's do. I can't get that look on Bookmap. I would need to scan 6 monitors to get the same info I have with one monitor with 6 doms. I hope that helps.

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #17 (permalink)
 theprophe 
prague,czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Irt,bookmap
Broker: Edgeclear
Trading: Mes
 
Posts: 41 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 47 given, 37 received

Thatís helps immensly

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to theprophe for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #18 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,557 received


Flyer873 View Post
Charts don't tell you what is happening RIGHT NOW where as Centered DOM's do. I can't get that look on Bookmap. I would need to scan 6 monitors to get the same info I have with one monitor with 6 doms. I hope that helps.


@Flyer873

So, on bookmap, you can't just align a bunch of DOMs? My main screen using SC DOMs (which are quite good except for a couple of irritations) is exactly this (7 side by side).

If you don't mind answering, how is it to place and cancel orders .. easy, quick, ...?

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #19 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received


theprophe View Post
Thatís helps immensly

I can't figure out how to post charts in private chat so here you go.
This is how I saw my first trade this morning. zoom up on the chart and you might be able to read the notes. Let me know. The simple truth is I drew a profile on the over night low's 2 bottom bars. When the market comes down to test the level I start looking for liquidity, Icebergs bigger volume etc to take the trade. This is what I did. Look at the time on the Bookmap chart around 8:40 and you can see 3 times we tried to get through it and each time that big buyer was there to take everything the sellers were able to sell.



610

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #20 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received


josh View Post
@Flyer873

So, on bookmap, you can't just align a bunch of DOMs? My main screen using SC DOMs (which are quite good except for a couple of irritations) is exactly this (7 side by side).

If you don't mind answering, how is it to place and cancel orders .. easy, quick, ...?

>My main screen using SC DOMs (which are quite good except for a couple of irritations) is exactly this (7 side by side).
Is that Bookmap? Cause I'm not sure what a SC DOM is. (Sorry)

I never could figure out how to place just dom's using bookmap but on the other hand I didn't spend a lot of time on it because I already knew how to use Jigsaw. Plus I have this theory that when you learn something, something has to be pushed out. I took a James Dalton course once and forgot how to change a tire.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #21 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,557 received


Flyer873 View Post
>My main screen using SC DOMs (which are quite good except for a couple of irritations) is exactly this (7 side by side).
Is that Bookmap? Cause I'm not sure what a SC DOM is. (Sorry)

I never could figure out how to place just dom's using bookmap but on the other hand I didn't spend a lot of time on it because I already knew how to use Jigsaw. Plus I have this theory that when you learn something, something has to be pushed out. I took a James Dalton course once and forgot how to change a tire.


Hah! Good stuff. A brief digression: it's easy to get too cerebral in trading. Learning is critical, but when a workshop is dedicated to MP (or most anything) and takes days, it's really too much. We need time to learn a chunk, absorb it, put it to work, and then go to the next piece. Someone who doesn't know what a TPO represents is going to have too much info after the first hour or two of info on MP. It has to all be learned though, and then reduced/distilled to the principles, and that just takes time and practice. Digression over.

SC = Sierra Chart. The DOM is really phenomenal; I haven't tried Jigsaw or Bookmap, but SC's ladders are very similar to those.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #22 (permalink)
 Dianoia 
London
 
Experience: Master
Platform: MC
Trading: 6A
 
Posts: 15 since Jun 2018
Thanks: 3 given, 35 received

I use both. In a nutshell, Jigsaw is a DOM based platform with an optional heatmap, Bookmap is the opposite. So you can't really say that one is better than the other, it completely depends on how you like to source your information. If heatmap, then Bookmap. If DOM, then Jigsaw.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Dianoia for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #23 (permalink)
 matzero 
Warsaw, Poland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Denali/Rythmic
Trading: ES, NQ, YM, RTY
 
Posts: 59 since Apr 2020
Thanks: 24 given, 30 received


Flyer873 View Post
I can't figure out how to post charts in private chat so here you go.
This is how I saw my first trade this morning. zoom up on the chart and you might be able to read the notes. Let me know. The simple truth is I drew a profile on the over night low's 2 bottom bars. When the market comes down to test the level I start looking for liquidity, Icebergs bigger volume etc to take the trade. This is what I did. Look at the time on the Bookmap chart around 8:40 and you can see 3 times we tried to get through it and each time that big buyer was there to take everything the sellers were able to sell.



610

OK, but that kind of clear action happens very rarely

I stare at bookmap every day for a few months now

Unfortunately I found this kind of scenario absolutely random. Sometimes price hit area of high liquidity and bounce. Other time it hits it and trades through. Other times it reverses just before reaching the level of high liquidity. Sometimes it hits more than one levels of high liquidity and continue. Complete randomness

Same for icebergs. I've seen veeeeery large icebergs and the price went through. Sometimes it continues. Sometimes it reverses after a few ticks. Sometimes it bounces from iceberg and never returns. Random outcome, random direction after iceberg hits

One thing I can confirm that generally levels of high liquidity are like a magnet. But those magnets are both on the bid side and on the ask size. Sooner or later price will hit them, but again it seems do be done in semi-random order

After months of watching this stuff I'm only getting more into conclusion that at the end of the day only price action matters

Do we have some heatmap users that found their edge only by looking into heatmap? Please correct me if my above statements are wrong

Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to matzero for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #24 (permalink)
 matzero 
Warsaw, Poland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Denali/Rythmic
Trading: ES, NQ, YM, RTY
 
Posts: 59 since Apr 2020
Thanks: 24 given, 30 received


Dianoia View Post
I use both. In a nutshell, Jigsaw is a DOM based platform with an optional heatmap, Bookmap is the opposite. So you can't really say that one is better than the other, it completely depends on how you like to source your information. If heatmap, then Bookmap. If DOM, then Jigsaw.

Why do you use both of them while both Bookmap and Jigsaw have DOM that can be configured in similar way. And both have heatmap. Isn't this redundant?

Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to matzero for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #25 (permalink)
 BenjaminR 
Chicago, Illinois/United States of America
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart, Daytradr,MW
Broker: AMP, ADMIS, Gain, Charles Schwab. Data: CQG, Open-eCry
Trading: Emini ES
 
BenjaminR's Avatar
 
Posts: 6 since Jun 2013
Thanks: 7 given, 10 received

I had the same question a few years ago & felt the same apprehesion about which to choose- I liked features about both; however, paying to have both just wasn't wise & not really feasible in my case, either. I found that Bookmap seemed to be useful if someone wants to zoom in to a granular level, & identify HFT's a little more easily, but Peter's Jigsaw Tools provided multiple ways to look at order flow (and all you need is one which works for you), & Auction Vista seems *somewhat* less graphicly smooth than Bookmap, but is absolutely more than adequate for that kind of visualization.

Since you now know that basically Jigsaw does what Bookmap does, there's some other very important considerations:

#1) Peter's education that comes with the Tools. Bookmap used to do daily 1 hr. webinars when I tried it for a month, but it seemed to be mostly on how to 'read the dots' & navigate the software. Peter's very generous with his knowledge & is a trader himself, with clear experience, & his training is much more comprehensive as to understanding what is happening, as well has how to understand the information the tools provide. The software is continually updated, & there have been cool new features since I've owned it. There is also a chatroom that Peter himself participates in daily, with traders of all levels of experience, many who are very helpful if you have an immediate problem or question (although there is a support ticket system).

#2) I don't remember what Bookmap cost at the time (a few years ago), but Peter's 'one & done' purchase option was & likely is 'best value'. For me, like many traders, I was underfunded for this journey to become a trader, & this was one of the best decisions I have made along the way. The downside is, to trade live through the Tools, there is an annual subscription. I somehow did not understand that when I bought it. I do not know how Bookmap works in this regard.

#3) Journalytix is part of the deal, & a few years ago I purchased Edgewonk to journal. However, I found it's too difficult to remember or stop & enter all the details of a trade using Edgewonk (it seems more suited to those who do not trade very frequently during the day, or are more positional or swing traders -I will use it someday I am sure). Journalytix is really great- it has a speech to text feature, prompts you to journal after each trade (if you want it to), & comprehensive analytics. Journaling is a key tool in development & performance enhancement.

#4) JS has a real-time news & economic calendar feature (if your broker data feed supports it) & that's very helpful. I don't recall that Bookmap did, but I might be wrong.

#5) Jigsaw has real-time alerts (icebergs, block trades, bearish/bullish divergence) that can really help to understand what's going on at a given price & moment in time, as well as help you either stay in a trade, or get out.

**There are some people on here who seem to use both platforms. You are likely going to need some kind of charting platform as well. Realize that you need logins for each platform, & we (as I understand it) are now limited to two logins per data feed, essentially, or the CME will deem you to be a 'professional', which jacks up your costs, unsustainably for most, especially those just starting out. So you need to check with your broker as to how many logins/platforms you can actually use, without getting an additional broker and/or data feed. Almost no retail trader needs both - it's more of a luxury for those who want the sleek "heatmap" of Bookmap & can afford it.

If I was teaching someone the ropes, & they wanted order flow tools, Jigsaw would be the one.

Hope that helps.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to BenjaminR for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #26 (permalink)
 Dianoia 
London
 
Experience: Master
Platform: MC
Trading: 6A
 
Posts: 15 since Jun 2018
Thanks: 3 given, 35 received


matzero View Post
Why do you use both of them while both Bookmap and Jigsaw have DOM that can be configured in similar way. And both have heatmap. Isn't this redundant?

They both have a heatmap, but Bookmap's is way better than Jigsaw's. And Bookmap's DOM is inferior to Jigsaw's.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Dianoia for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #27 (permalink)
 ForJL 
queens, ny
 
Experience: Master
Platform: NT7,NT8,Sierra,Ensign
Broker: TransAct, Rithmic
Trading: CL, ES, Currency
 
Posts: 39 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 51 given, 83 received

It is not always about what a market does but what it doesnít do. If the market moves into liquidity are those resting limit orders turning into market orders? Is liquidity being pulled, absorbed, etc.? I actually came across a bunch of videoís by some kid ( a kid to me anyway) on YouTube the other week that does a pretty good job of explaining these things. Look up ďBit Coin ChallengeĒ and give it a look. As the name implies he concentrates on bitcoin, but from the limited amount of video that I have seen gives a fairly cogent explanation of how this form of analysis works and might be helpful.

As far as your primary question is concerned I can only say that Bookmap in my opinion delivers on what it is designed to do. I have never tested Jigsaw. In the past whenever I had such a question I would test both programs side by side. After a period of time I would find myself gravitating to one over the other. That was the winner.


Best of luck in your endeavors.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to ForJL for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #28 (permalink)
 tandem 
Vilnius Lithuania
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Exocharts.com, Jigsaw, MW
Trading: BTC, MGC, ES
 
Posts: 20 since May 2019
Thanks: 19 given, 30 received

If you're DOM scalper then you have only 2 choices TT or Jigsaw, if you're not DOM scalper then anything than those 2 is better.
However sophisticated and overblown Bookmap is it does not show DOM dynamics.
With Bookmap you see when market tanked, with Jigsaw you can see when market is tanking, so you are 1 step ahead.
To my humble opinion mixing DOM analysis with Heatmap is overkill, and DOM with charting, where you can switch to TPO's, Dailies, Weeklies, Minutes in instant, mark levels, draw profiles etc. is just perfect combination. So Bookmap is neither good at DOM neither good at charting.
Jigsaw with Ninja or Motive is very common combination.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to tandem for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #29 (permalink)
 Dianoia 
London
 
Experience: Master
Platform: MC
Trading: 6A
 
Posts: 15 since Jun 2018
Thanks: 3 given, 35 received

I agree with Tandem that TT and JS have the two best DOM solutions. But I respectfully disagree with his/her view that "With Bookmap you see when market tanked, with Jigsaw you can see when market is tanking, so you are 1 step ahead.". I think you actually extract more information from Bookmap than Jigsaw (I use them both daily and have been for a long time). This is also a matter of trading style. How do you make money and what type of information will help you in this process? The only sensible way of figuring out if a tool works for you (or not) is to actually try it out.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Dianoia for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #30 (permalink)
JimPauley
WHEATON
 
 
Posts: 6 since Apr 2016
Thanks: 2 given, 15 received


matzero View Post
Hi

I'm looking for someone who has tried both of Bookmap and Jigsaw platforms

Can you compare them? What finally you choose?

So far I found that while Bookmap is probably best in class in terms of heatmap functionality, really that's all about it

I'm wondering how Jigsaw built-in heatmap compare with BM

In Jigsaw they have also auto-adjusting large volume dots. Are they as useful as advertised?

Iíve been using Bookmap for strategy development for years. It goes way beyond just the heat map. It uses open source code that is incredibly user-friendly, and they happily work with you to customize it. Highly recommend.

Jim

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to JimPauley for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #31 (permalink)
 Mabi 
sweden
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader,MetaTrader
Trading: futures, FX
 
Mabi's Avatar
 
Posts: 141 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 121 given, 135 received

I suppose you can do all this described in this thread and create a profitable system trading manually. Or just go naked and look at lower low and higher high and have the same win %.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Mabi for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #32 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,557 received


tandem View Post
If you're DOM scalper then you have only 2 choices TT or Jigsaw, if you're not DOM scalper then anything than those 2 is better.


You also have Sierra Chart. I'm not sure which features Jigsaw has that Sierra Chart doesn't? My DOM is set up pretty much identical to it, and it is lightning fast. DOM refresh rate is faster than my monitor refresh rate. I have recenter lines across the board, pull/stack (if I want them, which I don't), bid/offer prints, vol profile, depth bars .. what else is there?

Also, I'll add that SC also has a historical depth graph. It's not as nice as bookmap, from the looks of it. However, it's worked pretty well so far.



Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #33 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,557 received


matzero View Post
Unfortunately I found this kind of scenario absolutely random. Sometimes price hit area of high liquidity and bounce. Other time it hits it and trades through. Other times it reverses just before reaching the level of high liquidity. Sometimes it hits more than one levels of high liquidity and continue. Complete randomness

Same for icebergs. I've seen veeeeery large icebergs and the price went through. Sometimes it continues. Sometimes it reverses after a few ticks. Sometimes it bounces from iceberg and never returns. Random outcome, random direction after iceberg hits

Sounds like you're looking for an "if this, then buy" type of tool -- which as you know, doesn't exist (by definition, it can't work that way).

Markets move up and down purely as a function of the order flow that follows. Orders need to be filled, business needs to get done. There is no magic, no formula, and it's that simple. Yes, gaming happens all the time, in order to get better prices, create liquidity (liquidity created by stops and puking positions, for example). That's where the skill comes in, IMO. But nothing is ever going to tell you what happens next.

It's extra information. If it helps you, great, if not, as you said, then it's best to not use it. With any tool, it can be a distraction if not compartmentalized properly. Weighting any information too heavily is likely to result in frustration, FWIW.

I think @ ForJL sums it up nicely:


ForJL View Post
It is not always about what a market does but what it doesnít do.


Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #34 (permalink)
 yoyotrader1 
COLUMBIA, SC USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Tradestation
Trading: emini
 
Posts: 16 since Aug 2017
Thanks: 22 given, 17 received

I was in your shoes a month ago, and the best advice I got was: Try it yourself and we will see what works best for you.

Indeed, I tried both, and my favorite is hands down Bookmap. I am still trying to make jigsaw work, giving some errors and certain functions do not work, but Peter Davis has been a great support over the helpdesk.

I think of them as JS being Toyota Corolla with manual windows, and Bookmap as Tesla model 3 with level 3 autopilot. Or for phone nuts - Bookmap is definitely an iphone, Jigsaw is your Android SDK version.
I know some JS fans out there may have a different opinion, but I am simply stating my experience. I have nothing frankly negative to say about JS, it's just taking longer time to make it work.

Both JS and Bookmap will get you from point A to point B - if you know how to drive, and guess what - it's what kind of driver you are that will matter more than the relatively insignificant advantage of one or the other.

The best news is - both offer some sort of (effectively) free trial. Bookmap lifetime for Crypto and recorded data (so you will see what it is), and JS - 14 day full refund. You absolutely have to try by yourself and see which one "fits" your brain better

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to yoyotrader1 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #35 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received

If I was to give advice on how to trade is Simple:
1. Find an area where you want to do business on your chart and trade the edges. (Dont' trade the middle of ranges)
2. Look for liquidity in that area to confirm your theory. (I use Bookmap to find that. )
3. Look for buyers or sellers at that level. Define your stop, in case your wrong and stick to it. (I use Jigsaw for this.)
4. Enter the trade and take Half off at 1:1 and let your runner run to your target or if you see order flow reverse.

Remember Bookmap and Jigsaw are TOOLS. They DO not tell you when to get in or get out, YOU HAVE TO TAKE the RISK so learn how to use your tools.

We are led to believe that we can scalp ourselves into fortunes. I've not ran into a trader that has been able to successfully scalp without blowing their account out 3 or more times. (Not saying there isn't some lucky guy out there.) But you will notice most successful traders DO NOT SCALP as their only setup. (EXCEPT the traders big enough to push the market their way.) I will tell you, your 3 lot is NOT going to move the market. FEAR MY 3 lot PAUL TUTOR JONES!

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #36 (permalink)
 tandem 
Vilnius Lithuania
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Exocharts.com, Jigsaw, MW
Trading: BTC, MGC, ES
 
Posts: 20 since May 2019
Thanks: 19 given, 30 received


josh View Post
You also have Sierra Chart. I'm not sure which features Jigsaw has that Sierra Chart doesn't? My DOM is set up pretty much identical to it, and it is lightning fast. DOM refresh rate is faster than my monitor refresh rate. I have recenter lines across the board, pull/stack (if I want them, which I don't), bid/offer prints, vol profile, depth bars .. what else is there?

Also, I'll add that SC also has a historical depth graph. It's not as nice as bookmap, from the looks of it. However, it's worked pretty well so far.



Yes SC has everything and way more than many needs, but after using JS for few months i can't go back to SC DOM,
JS is very simple, easy to focus into the market, quickly open new ones, and order entry/exit/flat is so much more convenient, slick snappy UI is my choice over SC.
I use it mostly for order management and Journalytics, then you are free to use any orderflow package without broker feed.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to tandem for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #37 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nijia trader
Broker: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Trading: ym es
 
forgiven's Avatar
 
Posts: 669 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 155 given, 398 received


matzero View Post
Hi

I'm looking for someone who has tried both of Bookmap and Jigsaw platforms

Can you compare them? What finally you choose?

So far I found that while Bookmap is probably best in class in terms of heatmap functionality, really that's all about it

I'm wondering how Jigsaw built-in heatmap compare with BM

In Jigsaw they have also auto-adjusting large volume dots. Are they as useful as advertised?

try them yourself . it depends on how good you are at using the market generated information the platforms are generating. Jigsaw gives a no question ask refund in the first 30 days.

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to forgiven for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #38 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received


Bookmap View Post
Hi,


Btw. You can set up Bookmap 100% identically like Jigsaw is. It is easy and you won't miss anything in trading looking at the same setup as Jigsaw has.

Best.

dd

Can you set up 4 DOM's side by side like Jigsaw (And Center them with one click) or are stuck with one? See picture. Before I make a trade I see if the other markets are going my way.)
Thanks!!!! I'd like to see how you do that on Bookmap.
618

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #39 (permalink)
Broker88
Asuncion, Paraguay
 
 
Posts: 2 since Oct 2016
Thanks: 3 given, 2 received

You should definitely check out Bookmap's "MBO Bundle" , you can see Icebergs and stops in a very useful way.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Broker88 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #40 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,059 given, 14,557 received


tandem View Post
order entry/exit/flat is so much more convenient


If you can elaborate a little on this? My one gripe with SC DOM is the same gripe I have with many - it is hard to cancel an order quickly. In TT you right click the working order and it's gone. In SC you have to click a small 'X' on the order. Same with bookmap, I think, from the video. Not sure about JS. Other than that, you can customize the control bar and have pretty simple order entry/exit. I keep mine very simple and clean - I just need to be able to get flat, cancel all orders, and select my quantity:



Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #41 (permalink)
Broker88
Asuncion, Paraguay
 
 
Posts: 2 since Oct 2016
Thanks: 3 given, 2 received

You can also configure hotkeys in SC to cancel orders and flatten everything.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Broker88 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #42 (permalink)
 fivewhy 
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT8, Bookmap
Trading: ES, MES
 
Posts: 160 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 74 given, 149 received


matzero View Post
Same for icebergs. I've seen veeeeery large icebergs and the price went through. Sometimes it continues. Sometimes it reverses after a few ticks. Sometimes it bounces from iceberg and never returns. Random outcome, random direction after iceberg hits

One thing I can confirm that generally levels of high liquidity are like a magnet. But those magnets are both on the bid side and on the ask size. Sooner or later price will hit them, but again it seems do be done in semi-random order

I'm crazy but hear me out here, we're in very unusual times right now. There are forces at play, and sometimes the market says yes we will jump on board w this big forces. Other times, the market says he'll to the to no, and overwhelms those bigger forces. Basically,I'm just talking about the plunge protection team, the forces directly opposed to plunge protection team, and then the central banks. Yeah yeah, I know. But still, I've seen volume come in just at the right time, out of no where and at the oddest time for a very targeted hit, and change the entire direction of the day. I'm telling you, I've seen it happen over and over in the last year, but a lot this calendar year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Group_on_Financial_Markets

I think folks in this thread might be speaking more generally, whereas maybe you're think more localized to current conditions. Or maybe I'm just wrong.

My point is, roll w the punches and try to see the game that's being played each day.... whether it's "bigger forces" or "just the market."

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to fivewhy for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #43 (permalink)
 Bookmap  Bookmap is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: Bookmap
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: Bookmap Webinars
 
 
Bookmap's Avatar
 
Posts: 182 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 7 given, 160 received


Flyer873 View Post
Can you set up 4 DOM's side by side like Jigsaw (And Center them with one click) or are stuck with one? See picture. Before I make a trade I see if the other markets are going my way.)
Thanks!!!! I'd like to see how you do that on Bookmap.
618

Hi Flyer873,

Yes, you can pop out each tabbed Bookmap instrument and minimize the window to display mostly just the columns. Some of the heatmap will still display and take up a bit of screen real estate. See the attached image, where there are 3 DOM's across my 23 inch monitor (2048x1152 pixels). I am displaying the ES, NQ, and CL. Then to quickly expand the DOM and heatmap to get a bigger picture view, just double click on the title bar. Vice versa to minimize it. I hope that helps.

regards,

Bruce
Bookmap Team


Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Bookmap for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #44 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received


Bookmap View Post
Hi Flyer873,

Yes, you can pop out each tabbed Bookmap instrument and minimize the window to display mostly just the columns. Some of the heatmap will still display and take up a bit of screen real estate. See the attached image, where there are 3 DOM's across my 23 inch monitor (2048x1152 pixels). I am displaying the ES, NQ, and CL. Then to quickly expand the DOM and heatmap to get a bigger picture view, just double click on the title bar. Vice versa to minimize it. I hope that helps.

regards,

Bruce
Bookmap Team


YES IT DOES! Thanks Bruce.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #45 (permalink)
 Rainmakersg 
Singapore Singapore
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 10 since May 2020
Thanks: 24 given, 14 received


Bookmap View Post
Hi Flyer873,

Yes, you can pop out each tabbed Bookmap instrument and minimize the window to display mostly just the columns. Some of the heatmap will still display and take up a bit of screen real estate. See the attached image, where there are 3 DOM's across my 23 inch monitor (2048x1152 pixels). I am displaying the ES, NQ, and CL. Then to quickly expand the DOM and heatmap to get a bigger picture view, just double click on the title bar. Vice versa to minimize it. I hope that helps.

regards,

Bruce
Bookmap Team


Thanks. That just save me some money in getting Jigsaw

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Rainmakersg for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #46 (permalink)
 Rainmakersg 
Singapore Singapore
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 10 since May 2020
Thanks: 24 given, 14 received

I just came up with this:


Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Rainmakersg for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #47 (permalink)
 cphx 
Pierre, SD, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Daytradr, Multicharts
Trading: Treasuries, ES, CL
 
cphx's Avatar
 
Posts: 1 since Sep 2016
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

I've been reading through this thread, and it's been mentioned many times that the JS ladder is "superior / better" than the BM ladder - I've never seen what's in SC. Can someone elaborate why the JS ladder is better (or not)? Thanks.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to cphx for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #48 (permalink)
 matzero 
Warsaw, Poland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Denali/Rythmic
Trading: ES, NQ, YM, RTY
 
Posts: 59 since Apr 2020
Thanks: 24 given, 30 received


Rainmakersg View Post
I just came up with this:


A bit of hacking, but very clever

Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to matzero for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #49 (permalink)
 Geonss 
Athens
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 20 since Nov 2015
Thanks: 43 given, 6 received


Bookmap View Post
Hi Flyer873,

Yes, you can pop out each tabbed Bookmap instrument and minimize the window to display mostly just the columns. Some of the heatmap will still display and take up a bit of screen real estate. See the attached image, where there are 3 DOM's across my 23 inch monitor (2048x1152 pixels). I am displaying the ES, NQ, and CL. Then to quickly expand the DOM and heatmap to get a bigger picture view, just double click on the title bar. Vice versa to minimize it. I hope that helps.

regards,

Bruce
Bookmap Team


You can disable heatmap,dots and volume bars, so the left confusing window be total blank.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Geonss for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #50 (permalink)
 matthew28 
Legendary Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw daytradr
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
matthew28's Avatar
 
Posts: 994 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 2,500 given, 1,824 received


josh View Post
My one gripe with SC DOM is the same gripe I have with many - it is hard to cancel an order quickly. In TT you right click the working order and it's gone. In SC you have to click a small 'X' on the order.

With Jigsaw you also right click the order to immediately cancel it. Also left click and drag to move an order, or just left click to bring up a panel to increase/decrease size, change price for that order.
There is additionally a moveable trade panel with flatten and cancel buttons. (And keyboard shortcuts)

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #51 (permalink)
 Bookmap  Bookmap is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: Bookmap
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: Bookmap Webinars
 
 
Bookmap's Avatar
 
Posts: 182 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 7 given, 160 received


matthew28 View Post
With Jigsaw you also right click the order to immediately cancel it. Also left click and drag to move an order, or just left click to bring up a panel to increase/decrease size, change price for that order.
There is additionally a moveable trade panel with flatten and cancel buttons. (And keyboard shortcuts)

Hi Mathew,

Bookmap's DOM and Trading Panel offers all of this functionality as well as many different customized configurations. This video gives a good overall of all of it;


regards,

Bruce
Bookmap Team

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Bookmap for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #52 (permalink)
 Rainmakersg 
Singapore Singapore
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 10 since May 2020
Thanks: 24 given, 14 received

An important feature of Bookmap that is not frequently discussed or appreciated is the API that allows for automated trading.

Many of the DOM instructors who teach Order Flow were from the pre-HFT and algo era. Now times have changed, and the tools need to advance accordingly.

Just my 2 cents.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Rainmakersg for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #53 (permalink)
 Bookmap  Bookmap is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: Bookmap
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: Bookmap Webinars
 
 
Bookmap's Avatar
 
Posts: 182 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 7 given, 160 received


Rainmakersg View Post
An important feature of Bookmap that is not frequently discussed or appreciated is the API that allows for automated trading.

Many of the DOM instructors who teach Order Flow were from the pre-HFT and algo era. Now times have changed, and the tools need to advance accordingly.

Just my 2 cents.

Hi Rainmakersg,

Good point, thank you. Bookmap's API is Java based and very robust. You can code your own automated trading strategies and indicators, or hire a coder. More info is on our website.

Moreover, you can sell your proprietary indicators and automated strategies on the new Bookmap Marketplace. Or purchase third party vendor's indicators as well. Lots of new opportunities and low hanging fruit for the HFT algo era, to extend on Rainmakersg point above.

regards,

Bruce
Bookmap Team

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Bookmap for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #54 (permalink)
 fivewhy 
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT8, Bookmap
Trading: ES, MES
 
Posts: 160 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 74 given, 149 received


fivewhy View Post
Basically,I'm just talking about the plunge protection team, the forces directly opposed to plunge protection team, and then the central banks. Yeah yeah, I know.

But still, I've seen volume come in just at the right time, out of no where and at the oddest time for a very targeted hit, and change the entire direction of the day. I'm telling you, I've seen it happen over and over in the last year, but a lot this calendar year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Group_on_Financial_Markets

To offer an example of what I said in the above quote, I wanted to point to today's 134pm and 138pm one-minute bar (NY Time on June 8, 2020) for ES, NQ, YM, and RTY. Big volume spike out of nowhere on "no news," and RTY was the redheaded stepchild left out of the mix.

Unfortunately, I was not watching time n sales but my view of it is this:

A number of 1k-contract lots were bought with aggressive buy orders. In the ES, we got 20,286 contracts at 134pm and 12,933 at 138pm. This about 13x and 7x times the average volume for that minute of the day, over the last 10 or 20 sessions. For perspective, the average volume for the opening minute (930am) is around 12.5k contracts, give or take. But today's volume story played out similarly for NQ and YM, but not RTY. NQ had about 5x and 4x avg vol; YM had about 7x and 5x. RTY had about 4x and 3x the normal average volume for 134pm and 138pm, but RTY's price retraced against the buying and fell below where the aggressive buying began.

Further, on ES, I saw fairly high passive sell orders at the 3015 level, but the orders were pulled as price approached. This functioned as a flag for a target to hit. When the passive sell orders were pulled and reloaded at 3020, price came to rest at 3015 zone.

Bottom line, huge unusual volume from out of nowhere. No news to warrant this volume, and certainly nothing to warrant the shear aggression in size of market buy orders.

The aggressive buying began at about 3208, which is just below the overnight high (3211). Further, price had bounced off of 3211 three times during the day (ETH and RTH together). The critical point is that IF price had bounced off of (or fallen away from) 3211 yet again, I believe the bears would have entered and taken control of the market and sent prices below the 3202, which MIGHT have influenced the direction for tomorrow. Of course, I don't know this. And today has not yet closed. But the point is, I have seen this volume-out-nowhere over and over.

If it was run-of-the-mill stop hunting, price would normally shoot back in the other direction after the wash-out occurred. But in these situations I am describing, price just keeps going in the original direction of the wash-out (long, here).

Whether you call a nefarious force or just the market being the market, it is always odd volumes at odd times but at key price levels/zones.

And to bring this back on topic, I believe Jigsaw and Bookmap are great tools to help you see these things play out and form your own opinion because maybe I'm just seeing ghosties and goblins!

PS. As to news, the only news at that time was about Occidental and that was not sufficient to explain this. And there were no tweets.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to fivewhy for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #55 (permalink)
madeinnyc
Highland Park, TX
 
 
Posts: 29 since Jan 2020
Thanks: 16 given, 17 received

I'm curious to know if @Big Mike uses Bookmap? And thank you Mike for hosting the webinar on your site!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to madeinnyc for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #56 (permalink)
 krwinner 
Dallas TX
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TOS, Jigsaw, SC
Broker: TD, Optimus AMP Rithmic
Trading: CL ES ZB RTY GC
 
Posts: 4 since Mar 2018
Thanks: 24 given, 5 received


Flyer873 View Post
>Don't you find Bookmap and Jigsaw's Auction Vista redundant?
The way I trade is:
1. I do Volume Profile analysis in my longer term charts to find a level where I'm interested in doing business through my homework before the market opens.

Do you have any recommendations on resources for learning Volume Profile?

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to krwinner for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #57 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received


krwinner View Post
Do you have any recommendations on resources for learning Volume Profile?

Learning Volume Profile is the same as Market Profile except your using volume instead of TPO's. Same concept. I learned a lot from "Order Flow Analytics" and took every one of their courses, but I think as long as you can draw a profile and understand what the profile is telling you, that is 90% of the battle. I saw that you use Sierra charts and I believe they have some pretty good drawing tools. I like doing my homework on where I think the market is going then I watch Futures Trader 71, Morad Askar on YouTube each morning and see if I was even close to what he did. So far I'm about 70% correct There are a number of guys on Twitter I follow and a lot of them are "Volume Profilers". They have been doing it a lot longer than I have and are really good at it. I've been watching a couple of guys, @doubleWideCap and @Reveretrading a lot lately and found they have a great grasp on how the market works. I suggest you find someone like these guys and see if they will give you a little insight on trading. I always thought that Market Profile was a good way to trade and it is to some extent, but I have found knowing the context of the market is more important than any indicator or chart out there and that's part of this trading I have a tough time with.
If you need anything, I don't know that much but I'll be more than happy to share what I know.
Carl Mitchell
Flyer873@hotmail.com
I'm not that far from ya. I live near Gainesville, Texas.
Good Luck.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #58 (permalink)
shokunin
Manchester, United Kingdom
 
 
Posts: 12 since Jul 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 20 received

I use both tools.

Bookmap for seeing where long-standing orders are located (maybe several points away) - it gives me a good idea where price is likely heading and where the action is going to be.
Bookmap for zooming in quickly for very detailed analysis, for example if price jumps or suddenly reverses, I can take a look to see exactly what happened.
Bookmap for the MBO Stops and Iceberg tool which helps me understand how other traders are positioning themselves.

Jigsaw for actually placing and managing orders.
Jigsaw's Auction Vista for identifying scalping entries and exits, e.g. trading breakouts of a 2-tick range on a 10s chart.

If I had to summarise, Bookmap helps me understand where the action is going to happen and Jigsaw lets me trade that action with sniper precision.

The reason I don't use Bookmap for entering orders is the height of each entry in the DOM changes as I scale the heatmap. Jigsaw's height is fixed which makes it better suited for point and click order management.

Other things to note:

Bookmap needs to run on a local PC with a graphics card for smooth scrolling and fast zooming. It doesn't run well on a remote desktop.

Jigsaw runs perfectly on a remote desktop, which means I can run it at a Data Centre for faster execution of client-managed orders, e.g. volume stops or trailing limit orders.

Bookmap looks gorgeous on a 4k display at 100% scaling.

Jigsaw is best suited to a 25" or 27" QHD display. On a 27" 4k display, you either need to use scaling (which results in fuzzy text) or accept the menu and icons will be small. Luckily the actual DOM and Auction Vista scale fine by changing the font size, so the important bits are clear and sharp.

If I could have only one tool:

As a scalper (seconds), Jigsaw is invaluable to me for the precision it offers and speed of managing orders. Trading the open and the close is great with Jigsaw and a fast data feed.

As an intraday trader (minutes to hours), I would take Bookmap.

Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to shokunin for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #59 (permalink)
 IconBob 
Beulah MI USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart,Bookmap,NT8
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 9 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 36 given, 5 received

"Bookmap needs to run on a local PC with a graphics card for smooth scrolling and fast zooming. It doesn't run well on a remote desktop."

For the past 8 months, I've run Bookmap on a CME collocated server with no performance issues. Bookmap's Time and Sales speed is faster than other platforms I've

used based on visual observation. Most notably Siera Chart with Denali and Rithmic data feeds. I don't recall a Jigsaw comparison.

Valid point that Bookmap DOM spacing can be an issue so I use the Bookmap DOM in conjunction with Rithmic R-Trade Pro DOM to trade.

18 months ago I ran Jigsaw on a collocated server and in my experience it consumed more resources than I thought it should for its functionality.

And most importantly Bookmap has an MBO stop and iceberg indicator.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to IconBob for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #60 (permalink)
 Bookmap  Bookmap is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: Bookmap
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: Bookmap Webinars
 
 
Bookmap's Avatar
 
Posts: 182 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 7 given, 160 received


shokunin View Post
I use both tools.

The reason I don't use Bookmap for entering orders is the height of each entry in the DOM changes as I scale the heatmap.

Hi Shokunin,

I just wanted to inform you in the next release of Bookmap (7.2), you'll have the ability to drag the chart up and down, without the need to change the scale or to click on the dragging hand tool button. I believe this might solve your chart scaling issue for order entry within Bookmap. We plan to release 7.2 in Aug. Keep your eyes peeled!

regards,

Bruce
The Bookmap Team

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Bookmap for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #61 (permalink)
shokunin
Manchester, United Kingdom
 
 
Posts: 12 since Jul 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 20 received


Bookmap View Post
Hi Shokunin,

I just wanted to inform you in the next release of Bookmap (7.2), you'll have the ability to drag the chart up and down, without the need to change the scale or to click on the dragging hand tool button. I believe this might solve your chart scaling issue for order entry within Bookmap. We plan to release 7.2 in Aug. Keep your eyes peeled!

regards,

Bruce
The Bookmap Team

That sounds good!

Are trailing stops and trailing limit orders fully handled server side with Rithmic, or is the trailing move managed client side by Bookmap?

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to shokunin for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #62 (permalink)
shokunin
Manchester, United Kingdom
 
 
Posts: 12 since Jul 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 20 received


IconBob View Post
"Bookmap needs to run on a local PC with a graphics card for smooth scrolling and fast zooming. It doesn't run well on a remote desktop."

For the past 8 months, I've run Bookmap on a CME collocated server with no performance issues. Bookmap's Time and Sales speed is faster than other platforms I've

used based on visual observation. Most notably Siera Chart with Denali and Rithmic data feeds. I don't recall a Jigsaw comparison.

Valid point that Bookmap DOM spacing can be an issue so I use the Bookmap DOM in conjunction with Rithmic R-Trade Pro DOM to trade.

18 months ago I ran Jigsaw on a collocated server and in my experience it consumed more resources than I thought it should for its functionality.

And most importantly Bookmap has an MBO stop and iceberg indicator.

Poor choice of words on my part. Bookmap runs fine of course on a remote server, the performance issue I experience comes in getting Bookmap's highly graphical GUI back over RDP or ICA to my local desktop. It is usable if I just sit and watch it, but as soon as I want to zoom in or scroll around, it is very laggy. Running on my local PC by comparison is silky smooth.

Because Jigsaw is mainly text based, it is more optimised for RDP and therefore I don't notice any lag working remotely.

Rithmic R-Trader Pro would be fine but I don't like auto-centering, and when I turn off auto-centering all the numbers disappear. I don't really understand Rithmic's logic behind that decision. Also, I like my DOM to be synced to a chart, so the candles line up with the ladder. I find that makes it easier to see where to click rather than referencing numbers.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to shokunin for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #63 (permalink)
 Bookmap  Bookmap is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: Bookmap
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: Bookmap Webinars
 
 
Bookmap's Avatar
 
Posts: 182 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 7 given, 160 received


shokunin View Post
That sounds good!

Are trailing stops and trailing limit orders fully handled server side with Rithmic, or is the trailing move managed client side by Bookmap?

Hi shokunin,

In Bookmap connected to Rithmic, Bracketed Orders, Trailing Stops, and OCO's are handled Server Side. More info here on all data providers.

regards,

Bruce
The Bookmap Team

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Bookmap for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #64 (permalink)
shokunin
Manchester, United Kingdom
 
 
Posts: 12 since Jul 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 20 received

I've been trying Bookmap for placing orders to see if I could use it as a future replacement to Jigsaw.

What does "Disable Modality" do?

I have "Display x icon for order cancellation" ticked, but I don't see any X. The only way I can cancel a specific order is to middle-click on the chart. Where is the X?

I can't seem to be able to drag an order to a new price level using the DOM - it only seems to work using the chart.

How do I change the size of a waiting order from the DOM (without using the chart)?

I have Order Queue enabled, but I don't see my estimated position in the queue. It just shows for example "BL 1" but no position.

Thanks.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to shokunin for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #65 (permalink)
 Bookmap  Bookmap is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: Bookmap
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: Bookmap Webinars
 
 
Bookmap's Avatar
 
Posts: 182 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 7 given, 160 received


shokunin View Post
I've been trying Bookmap for placing orders to see if I could use it as a future replacement to Jigsaw.

What does "Disable Modality" do?

I have "Display x icon for order cancellation" ticked, but I don't see any X. The only way I can cancel a specific order is to middle-click on the chart. Where is the X?

I can't seem to be able to drag an order to a new price level using the DOM - it only seems to work using the chart.

How do I change the size of a waiting order from the DOM (without using the chart)?

I have Order Queue enabled, but I don't see my estimated position in the queue. It just shows for example "BL 1" but no position.

Thanks.

Hi shokunin,

Disable Modality when checked means you will get a pop up window to confirm a trade, but you don't need to actually click to close that pop up confirmation in order to continue with he trading activity. Please disregard it for the moment, there is a small bug we need to correct with this functionality.

When trading from the DOM by default, you set order via the BID and ASK columns. You then manage the trades via the BUY and SELL columns, where you can left click on it and change the size, hover over it and see the red "X" to cancel it, and left click hold and move the order. Please watch this video.

The Order Queue finction only works in the COB column at the moment. We are addressing this issue is upcoming Bookmap releases so that you will also see it in the DOM.

I think this addresses all of your questions. Let me know if you need further assistance.

regards,

Bruce
The Bookmap Team

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Bookmap for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #66 (permalink)
shokunin
Manchester, United Kingdom
 
 
Posts: 12 since Jul 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 20 received


Bookmap View Post
When trading from the DOM by default, you set order via the BID and ASK columns. You then manage the trades via the BUY and SELL columns, where you can left click on it and change the size, hover over it and see the red "X" to cancel it, and left click hold and move the order.

This is how I thought it should work. But on my version, when I hover over the order (as per your video) I see the border of the cell change, but I don't see any X appear and neither can I drag the order.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to shokunin for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #67 (permalink)
 Bookmap  Bookmap is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: Bookmap
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: Bookmap Webinars
 
 
Bookmap's Avatar
 
Posts: 182 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 7 given, 160 received


shokunin View Post
This is how I thought it should work. But on my version, when I hover over the order (as per your video) I see the border of the cell change, but I don't see any X appear and neither can I drag the order.

Hi shokunin,

Perhaps you need to upgrade to the latest 7.1 alpha build? This is the proper behavior.

regards,

Bruce
The Bookmap Team

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Bookmap for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #68 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received

I had someone ask me if you can see Liquidity on BookMap from a level on my chart.
The Trade I was making was a VWAP re-test. On the first picture I noticed that we had gone down through the VWAP and I wanted to retest that area...11661.00 and as you can see on Book map chart, second picture, you can see that liquidity, We re-tested I placed my order and set my stop above 11662. My next stop was I wanted to be out of the trad before the Globex VAL at 11604.00.
Anyway You guys get it. I'm just saying look at your chart and know where you want to take a trade and see off Bookmap if anyone else is thinking the same thing.
Flyer873https://futures.io/images/smilies/ammo/crazy_pilot.gif
954


955


956


957

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #69 (permalink)
 matzero 
Warsaw, Poland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Denali/Rythmic
Trading: ES, NQ, YM, RTY
 
Posts: 59 since Apr 2020
Thanks: 24 given, 30 received


Flyer873 View Post
I had someone ask me if you can see Liquidity on BookMap from a level on my chart.
The Trade I was making was a VWAP re-test. On the first picture I noticed that we had gone down through the VWAP and I wanted to retest that area...11661.00 and as you can see on Book map chart, second picture, you can see that liquidity, We re-tested I placed my order and set my stop above 11662. My next stop was I wanted to be out of the trad before the Globex VAL at 11604.00.
Anyway You guys get it. I'm just saying look at your chart and know where you want to take a trade and see off Bookmap if anyone else is thinking the same thing.
Flyer873https://futures.io/images/smilies/ammo/crazy_pilot.gif
954


955


956


957

At some point you will discover that reliable liquidity will show up near pivot highs and lows and near fib levels of significant moves or near century figures.

You don't need bookmap to perdict where they will be waiting.

And most of the visible liquidity in between major pivots is either spoofed or insignificant, you get absolutely no edge by watching it since most of it will never be traded

Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to matzero for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #70 (permalink)
 Bookmap  Bookmap is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: Bookmap
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: Bookmap Webinars
 
 
Bookmap's Avatar
 
Posts: 182 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 7 given, 160 received


matzero View Post
At some point you will discover that reliable liquidity will show up near pivot highs and lows and near fib levels of significant moves or near century figures.

You don't need bookmap to perdict where they will be waiting.

And most of the visible liquidity in between major pivots is either spoofed or insignificant, you get absolutely no edge by watching it since most of it will never be traded

Hi matzero,

In general, there is typically liquidity around key levels such as big figures, and significant highs and lows. However, it this is not always the case and is a dangerous assumption that can lead to massive surprises; it is simply not as straightforward as this. There are multiple examples, such as a spike in price, where important liquidity supports price at pullback levels that have no reference to key levels such as ONH, VAH/VAL/POC, low/high volume nodes, etc. Or perhaps there is no liquidity at a retest of a century figure nor a Low Volume Node; this allows larger players to easily push price through these areas. This is the nature of the markets and orderflow. Insight to liquidity at these levels will give you an edge over simply relying on the assumption of the presence of liquidity at key levels. Flyer873 has an approach that is hard to knock, why not align your strategies with verifiable levels of high liquidity within Bookmap's heatmap and know for sure?

regards,

Bruce
The Bookmap Team

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Bookmap for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #71 (permalink)
johnbn1
Denmark
 
 
Posts: 1 since Jun 2017
Thanks: 2 given, 1 received

Does anyone know if it's possible to get any of these "heatmaps" to work with european equities? More specifically the Nasdaq OMX Nordic stock markets?

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to johnbn1 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #72 (permalink)
 Bookmap  Bookmap is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: Bookmap
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: Bookmap Webinars
 
 
Bookmap's Avatar
 
Posts: 182 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 7 given, 160 received


johnbn1 View Post
Does anyone know if it's possible to get any of these "heatmaps" to work with european equities? More specifically the Nasdaq OMX Nordic stock markets?

Hi John,

Bookmap currently does not connect to European stocks. However, you could trade American Depositary Receipts (ADR's) if that helps. Not sure if ThinkorSwim (TOS) offers access to European stock markets, but if so, then when Bookmap connects to TOS it should be possible. I have no information when Bookmap will be available through TOS, but we know they are testing it with a beta group at the moment so hopefully it won't be long.

regards,

Bruce
Bookmap Team

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Bookmap for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #73 (permalink)
yolo778778
Malaysia
 
 
Posts: 27 since Aug 2020
Thanks: 1 given, 19 received


Flyer873 View Post
I had someone ask me if you can see Liquidity on BookMap from a level on my chart.

The Trade I was making was a VWAP re-test. On the first picture I noticed that we had gone down through the VWAP and I wanted to retest that area...11661.00 and as you can see on Book map chart, second picture, you can see that liquidity, We re-tested I placed my order and set my stop above 11662. My next stop was I wanted to be out of the trad before the Globex VAL at 11604.00.

Anyway You guys get it. I'm just saying look at your chart and know where you want to take a trade and see off Bookmap if anyone else is thinking the same thing.

Flyer873https://futures.io/images/smilies/ammo/crazy_pilot.gif

954





955





956





957




Hello there,

Thank you for sharing.
What is your settings for motivewave?
I cannot seem to have my TPO and VP set up like yours. Any tips?

Thank you


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to yolo778778 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #74 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received

I'm using a 30min TPO chart set to Volume for Value Areas and VPOC. I set my TPO chart to align letters so I can see the TPO on my chart. My charts are OFA charts set to 6/4 and 16/6 for ES. I hope that helps.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Flyer873 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #75 (permalink)
yolo778778
Malaysia
 
 
Posts: 27 since Aug 2020
Thanks: 1 given, 19 received


Flyer873 View Post
I'm using a 30min TPO chart set to Volume for Value Areas and VPOC. I set my TPO chart to align letters so I can see the TPO on my chart. My charts are OFA charts set to 6/4 and 16/6 for ES. I hope that helps.


Thank you for answering.

Well, I did not know that MW has OFA bars. Actually, I donít think they do?
Is that an add-on purchased by you?


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to yolo778778 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #76 (permalink)
 Flyer873 
Gainesville, Texas/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OFA, Jigsaw, Bookmap
Trading: Anything that moves
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 5 given, 73 received

Yes! OFA is Order Flow Analytics and it is an add on.
Orderflowanalytics.com
To be honest, I only use my charts figuring out where the next level will be and you can do that with a 30 minute chart. My main chart I trade with is Bookmap and MBO data with rithmic. I have ES, NQ, YM, RTY, CL, UB (Ultra-bond) DOM's Lined up in a row when I trade to see if correlated markets agree with direction . I've been trading full time for 11 years and this is where I am at this stage and I'm always looking for something to give me an edge. I'd pee on a spark plug if I thought it would help my trading.https://futures.io/images/smilies/animated/boxing.gif
Good Luck.
Carl...

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #77 (permalink)
yolo778778
Malaysia
 
 
Posts: 27 since Aug 2020
Thanks: 1 given, 19 received


Flyer873 View Post
Yes! OFA is Order Flow Analytics and it is an add on.

Orderflowanalytics.com

To be honest, I only use my charts figuring out where the next level will be and you can do that with a 30 minute chart. My main chart I trade with is Bookmap and MBO data with rithmic. I have ES, NQ, YM, RTY, CL, UB (Ultra-bond) DOM's Lined up in a row when I trade to see if correlated markets agree with direction . I've been trading full time for 11 years and this is where I am at this stage and I'm always looking for something to give me an edge. I'd pee on a spark plug if I thought it would help my trading.https://futures.io/images/smilies/animated/boxing.gif

Good Luck.

Carl...



Thank you for sharing.

I just started trading futures.
Did not have any success trading with DOM/Volume Imprints so I stayed with my indicators and charting and now making some improvements. Yet to have any red days these 2 weeks.

I purchased the MW license recently. I want something that can give me some sort of volumes breakdown/analysis without distracting me from focusing on chart.

Thatís why I might consider Order Flow bars, though still contemplating whether it is worth it for me or not. I feel like I am not utilizing order flow fully even though my platform (MW) supports it.

Now I just manually plot a volume profile on an area of interest if I need some help.

Again, thank you for the info. Best of luck to your career.

BTW, I am using Rithmic as well. Probably donít need it if I am not too reliant on market depth, but I heard it gives faster and more reliable data than its competitors, so I might just well stay with it.

Always want to get Bookmap, but the price... and also I use a Mac, not sure whether it will work for me or not, as I probably need R/Trader Pro to feed data to both platforms (MW and Bookmap), and R/Trader does not run on Mac


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to yolo778778 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #78 (permalink)
 tr8er 
Europe
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeNavigator, BookMap
Trading: ES, CL, 6E, 6B
 
Posts: 481 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 35 given, 430 received

BM has a Mac-version

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to tr8er for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #79 (permalink)
yolo778778
Malaysia
 
 
Posts: 27 since Aug 2020
Thanks: 1 given, 19 received


tr8er View Post
BM has a Mac-version



Yes Iím aware, but if I am not wrong, CME will charge you pro-tier fees if you have more than 1 platform getting their data, unless you use Trader/R Pro as 1 data source to give data to multiple platforms using API, but Trader/R Pro does not run on Mac.


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to yolo778778 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #80 (permalink)
 theprophe 
prague,czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Irt,bookmap
Broker: Edgeclear
Trading: Mes
 
Posts: 41 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 47 given, 37 received

You can have more than 1 CME connection and stay non-pro but need multiple brokers.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to theprophe for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #81 (permalink)
 ichack17 
Manchester, New Hampshire, United States
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Firetip(x), TradingView
Broker: IronBeam
Trading: ES, NQ, GC
 
Posts: 8 since Apr 2020
Thanks: 9 given, 8 received


theprophe View Post
You can have more than 1 CME connection and stay non-pro but need multiple brokers.



Can you expand on this CME restriction? Or point me to a thread that goes into more detail? I thought the limit was three connections.


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to ichack17 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #82 (permalink)
yolo778778
Malaysia
 
 
Posts: 27 since Aug 2020
Thanks: 1 given, 19 received


theprophe View Post
You can have more than 1 CME connection and stay non-pro but need multiple brokers.



Some corrections: I think CME will charge you pro only if connecting more than 2 log-in concurrently. But still you will be paying another data fee for the other session.

Best solution is to download R/Trader Pro (Windows ONLY) and use the program to feed data to how many platforms you have. Then it will still count as 1 log in.

This is what I have researched.


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to yolo778778 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #83 (permalink)
 theprophe 
prague,czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Irt,bookmap
Broker: Edgeclear
Trading: Mes
 
Posts: 41 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 47 given, 37 received


ichack17 View Post
Can you expand on this CME restriction? Or point me to a thread that goes into more detail? I thought the limit was three connections.


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Sorry your right, you can have 2 connections, but I believe that is per broker

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to theprophe for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #84 (permalink)
 options 
toronto
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TOS
Trading: options
 
Posts: 56 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 52 given, 50 received

So does anybody using 7.1 version of BOOKMAP and find it usefull . Wonder if ICEBERG detector really works and helps you in trading. ????

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to options for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #85 (permalink)
 Bookmap  Bookmap is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: Bookmap
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: Bookmap Webinars
 
 
Bookmap's Avatar
 
Posts: 182 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 7 given, 160 received


options View Post
So does anybody using 7.1 version of BOOKMAP and find it usefull . Wonder if ICEBERG detector really works and helps you in trading. ????

Hi,

Just to be clear, Bookmap's Stop&Iceberg Tracker is sold separately on the Bookmap Marketplace and is not included in Bookmap 7.1 Global or Global+ versions, however it will work with either Bookmap version. The Stop&Icberg Tracker requires a Rithmic data connection and only works with CME Group instruments in the CME, CBOT, COMEX, and NYMEX. The indicator displays Native Iceberg and Stop order transactions.

There are many traders using it who have found it very valuable. For example, professional trader Scott Pulcini is currently basing his entire trading plan on Bookmap's Stop&Iceberg Tracker. There are several resources on our website and marketplace for more information, or you can always reach out to support@bookmap.com.

regards,

Bruce
The Bookmap Team

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Bookmap for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #86 (permalink)
 Poosman 
Houston, Texas
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: N/A
Trading: ES, GC, Currencies, options
 
Poosman's Avatar
 
Posts: 3 since Jun 2020
Thanks: 36 given, 4 received

This is the most relevant post on this thread IMO. Yet no one really addressed it.


matzero View Post
OK, but that kind of clear action happens very rarely

I stare at bookmap every day for a few months now

Unfortunately I found this kind of scenario absolutely random. Sometimes price hit area of high liquidity and bounce. Other time it hits it and trades through. Other times it reverses just before reaching the level of high liquidity. Sometimes it hits more than one levels of high liquidity and continue. Complete randomness

Same for icebergs. I've seen veeeeery large icebergs and the price went through. Sometimes it continues. Sometimes it reverses after a few ticks. Sometimes it bounces from iceberg and never returns. Random outcome, random direction after iceberg hits

One thing I can confirm that generally levels of high liquidity are like a magnet. But those magnets are both on the bid side and on the ask size. Sooner or later price will hit them, but again it seems do be done in semi-random order

After months of watching this stuff I'm only getting more into conclusion that at the end of the day only price action matters

Do we have some heatmap users that found their edge only by looking into heatmap? Please correct me if my above statements are wrong


Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Poosman for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #87 (permalink)
 IconBob 
Beulah MI USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart,Bookmap,NT8
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 9 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 36 given, 5 received

Scott Pulcini does. See him advanced Bookmap webinar Thursday morning.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #88 (permalink)
 Bookmap  Bookmap is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: Bookmap
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: Bookmap Webinars
 
 
Bookmap's Avatar
 
Posts: 182 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 7 given, 160 received


Poosman View Post
This is the most relevant post on this thread IMO. Yet no one really addressed it.

"I stare at bookmap every day for a few months now

Unfortunately I found this kind of scenario absolutely random. Sometimes price hit area of high liquidity and bounce. Other time it hits it and trades through. Other times it reverses just before reaching the level of high liquidity. Sometimes it hits more than one levels of high liquidity and continue. Complete randomness

Same for icebergs. I've seen veeeeery large icebergs and the price went through. Sometimes it continues. Sometimes it reverses after a few ticks. Sometimes it bounces from iceberg and never returns. Random outcome, random direction after iceberg hits

One thing I can confirm that generally levels of high liquidity are like a magnet. But those magnets are both on the bid side and on the ask size. Sooner or later price will hit them, but again it seems do be done in semi-random order

After months of watching this stuff I'm only getting more into conclusion that at the end of the day only price action matters

Do we have some heatmap users that found their edge only by looking into heatmap? Please correct me if my above statements are wrong."



---------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Poosman,

We're happy to address this question; it is erroneous to assume if price hits an area of high liquidity it will bounce. Same for Iceberg transactions -- just because there are icebergs, even large ones, doesnít mean price will bounce. There can simply be more aggressive sellers than liquidity or icebergs, and price will cut right through those areas. Other times there are less aggressive sellers, and the liquidity and icebergs absorb all the aggressive selling and price bounces.

Therefore, itís the context between the price structure, aggressor volume (market buy/sell orders), and liquidity (limit buy/sell orders) that really matters. Comprehending this context can allow for heightened insights to where price may move next. For example, suppose price is in a random walk within a consolidated range and there is high liquidity above and below the range. However, at the highs of the range, you notice more buyers, yet price drops back down into the middle of the range. However, the liquidity on the bid moves up from the bottom of the range. Price doesnít test the liquidity because there are not many aggressive sellers hitting the bid. Moreover, you note there are some iceberg transactions just in front of the bid liquidity. Aggressive buyers begin entering the market and price breaks out of the range and charges up toward higher liquidity on the offer, like a magnet. Understanding the context of the aggressive volume and the liquidity within the price range outlines a skew in the auction and the higher potential for the ensuing breakout. This can help you make more informed trading decisions. Attached is an image of price action in todayís ES that illustrates the point.

Bookmapís educational course and Daily Live Advanced Webinars cover this type of material everyday. It is forward looking live analysis, not hindsight, and includes live trading. Please log into bookmap.com/portal to access these materials. Note, a subscription to Global+ is required for the Advanced webinars.

regards,

Bruce
The Bookmap Team


Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Bookmap for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #89 (permalink)
 stumbras 
Denver, Colorado
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Tradestation, Tradingview
Broker: Tradestation, Forex.com
Trading: Futures and Forex
 
Posts: 29 since Apr 2021
Thanks: 7 given, 12 received


Bookmap View Post
"I stare at bookmap every day for a few months now

Unfortunately I found this kind of scenario absolutely random. Sometimes price hit area of high liquidity and bounce. Other time it hits it and trades through. Other times it reverses just before reaching the level of high liquidity. Sometimes it hits more than one levels of high liquidity and continue. Complete randomness

Same for icebergs. I've seen veeeeery large icebergs and the price went through. Sometimes it continues. Sometimes it reverses after a few ticks. Sometimes it bounces from iceberg and never returns. Random outcome, random direction after iceberg hits

One thing I can confirm that generally levels of high liquidity are like a magnet. But those magnets are both on the bid side and on the ask size. Sooner or later price will hit them, but again it seems do be done in semi-random order

After months of watching this stuff I'm only getting more into conclusion that at the end of the day only price action matters

Do we have some heatmap users that found their edge only by looking into heatmap? Please correct me if my above statements are wrong."



---------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Poosman,

We're happy to address this question; it is erroneous to assume if price hits an area of high liquidity it will bounce. Same for Iceberg transactions -- just because there are icebergs, even large ones, doesnít mean price will bounce. There can simply be more aggressive sellers than liquidity or icebergs, and price will cut right through those areas. Other times there are less aggressive sellers, and the liquidity and icebergs absorb all the aggressive selling and price bounces.

Therefore, itís the context between the price structure, aggressor volume (market buy/sell orders), and liquidity (limit buy/sell orders) that really matters. Comprehending this context can allow for heightened insights to where price may move next. For example, suppose price is in a random walk within a consolidated range and there is high liquidity above and below the range. However, at the highs of the range, you notice more buyers, yet price drops back down into the middle of the range. However, the liquidity on the bid moves up from the bottom of the range. Price doesnít test the liquidity because there are not many aggressive sellers hitting the bid. Moreover, you note there are some iceberg transactions just in front of the bid liquidity. Aggressive buyers begin entering the market and price breaks out of the range and charges up toward higher liquidity on the offer, like a magnet. Understanding the context of the aggressive volume and the liquidity within the price range outlines a skew in the auction and the higher potential for the ensuing breakout. This can help you make more informed trading decisions. Attached is an image of price action in todayís ES that illustrates the point.

Bookmapís educational course and Daily Live Advanced Webinars cover this type of material everyday. It is forward looking live analysis, not hindsight, and includes live trading. Please log into bookmap.com/portal to access these materials. Note, a subscription to Global+ is required for the Advanced webinars.

regards,

Bruce
The Bookmap Team


Do you have trial for global+?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #90 (permalink)
 Bookmap  Bookmap is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: Bookmap
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: Bookmap Webinars
 
 
Bookmap's Avatar
 
Posts: 182 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 7 given, 160 received


Poosman View Post
This is the most relevant post on this thread IMO. Yet no one really addressed it.


stumbras View Post
Do you have trial for global+?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Hi Stumbras,

There is not trial with Bookmap. Instead we offer a free version that connects to one cyrpto currency for free, and that data is free too. There is also a delayed data feed for stocks and Futures. This free version gives you a good overview of Bookmap. If you want live data for stocks and/or futures, or you want to access more than one crypto currency, then a subscription to Bookmap Global or Global+ is required. Note, you will need to provide the data; it is not included in the subscription fee. Go to bookmap.com and visited the Connectivity and Pricing sections and click on the Connectivity Guide and the link below Pricing section for more details on pricing comparisons.

regards,

Bruce

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #91 (permalink)
 synclavier 
London, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Various
Trading: FGBL, GC, CL, ES, FDAX
 
Posts: 17 since Mar 2014
Thanks: 17 given, 12 received

I use Bookmap while executing with Daytradr ...and both work well.

My only gripe is that I wish that Bookmap would allow for more than one chart of the same instrument using a single data feed. e.g. I would love to have both long term and short term ES charts up, but it's not possible.

Instead, I find myself constantly fiddling with the time slice intervals on one chart rather than being able to set and forget a L/T and S/T interval on two charts. Getting another connection solely for another ES chart would be costly as I'd be in 'Pro' user territory. Surely there must be a way of adding additional instances of the same instrument without needing additional data connections? @Bookmap

Reply With Quote


futures io Trading Community Platforms and Indicators > Bookmap vs Jigsaw Daytradr


Last Updated on May 15, 2021


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing

NEW BlackBird Features + FOREX Support w/Jeremy Tang @ SharkIndicators

Elite only
 

Our 12-year anniversary w/ $$,$$$ prizes (check soon)

June
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada), info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts