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Overwhelmed! Which platform do I choose? Sierra? Ninja? MT5?


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Overwhelmed! Which platform do I choose? Sierra? Ninja? MT5?

  #11 (permalink)
 
Linds's Avatar
 Linds 
Victoria, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, MT4
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Interesting comments on NT8
I am a discretionary trader and have not had issues with NT8.
Guess I am a a ‘light’ user and NT can handle what I ask of it.
Having said that....I know several peopl,that use Sierra....and it seems superior in terms of stability and the extent of native functionality...especially you want to use order flow/ volume in your trading.
If I was not a lifetime licence holder with Ninja I may have swapped over.

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  #12 (permalink)
 iantg 
charlotte nc
 
Experience: Advanced
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I will give you a few pros and cons of NinjaTrader.

Cons:
Like others have said, stability has been an issue for them. Late last year I had version 11 crash on me during live trading. After working with their team over there we discovered the bug...... Basically any time you refreshed your trade performance report with a live data feed open and consuming over a certain threshold of memory.... It would crash. They worked on it and fixed in with version 12. This bug was only in version 11 as far as I know. But the point is that live trading users are still beta testers to some extent. I think over the last 2 years they have been perhaps overly ambitious in their releases and didn't do enough internal UAT, so some of the releases have had serious bugs. Some versions are fairly stable though. I still use version 10 for example, it's one of the more stable, low memory consuming versions. Starting in version 11, the DB structure changed, then in 12 they added all the new order flow tools. I think they are up to version 13 or 14 and the memory usage can be high depending on what you are trying to do. But if you get a stable version, keep your DB file small, and don't use sloppy code from bad third party Dev's, it's a fine platform for algo trading. I can't speak to using charts or indicators because I am not familiar with that aspect of it.

Pros:

SIM:
I have taken apart the SIM / testing tools of various platforms over the years and you won't find too many that have the complexity of NinjaTraders. They all have limitations, but NinjaTrader's SIM / Market Replay is significantly more accurate than other retail options.
So if you are trading more of an investing style where you just take a few trades a day and try to hold for 10 - 20 points or something accuracy of testing tools may not be such a big deal. But if you are using limit orders, scalping or doing anything based off of volume analysis that requires accurate fill logic.... You will need tools that are in the ball park with the live market. Else your tools will fail you and not properly prep you for live trading.

Algo Trading:
Every system will have some flavor of algo trading tools available. Ninjatrader uses C# which gives you access to the full library of .Net, so you can use tons of class libraries to do literally anything. C# is not as fast as C++ though. So I would say in terms of AlgoTrading just from a technology perspective: NinjaTrader and MultiCharts. Net both have you covered with Microsoft technology. Trade Station and a few others use something called easy language, which might handle blocking and tackling okay but you won't have as much scale behind it because it is a proprietary made up language as far as I can tell.

So it all depends on your needs I suppose...

Ian

In the analytical world there is no such thing as art, there is only the science you know and the science you don't know. Characterizing the science you don't know as "art" is a fools game.
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  #13 (permalink)
ycomp
Europe-ish
 
Posts: 177 since Sep 2013
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Linds View Post
Interesting comments on NT8
I am a discretionary trader and have not had issues with NT8.
Guess I am a a ‘light’ user and NT can handle what I ask of it.
Having said that....I know several peopl,that use Sierra....and it seems superior in terms of stability and the extent of native functionality...especially you want to use order flow/ volume in your trading.
If I was not a lifetime licence holder with Ninja I may have swapped over.

It all depends on if you are using 3rd party indicators (some might not be so well coded or be demanding) and if you have tons of charts... I found personally that NT works better (much more responsive and quicker loading - and better at handling disconnections) with futures data than with fxcm forex data. But I was using tick charts, maybe it is different on forex for time charts.

NT7 and NT6.5 also had their issues. I would not say that NT7 is more stable than NT8 like a previous poster was saying but I can completely believe that for his setup, whatever that it is, it is. That's the NinjaTrader way... At least in NT8 I'm not having to deal with corrupt databases constantly the way I was in older versions (can't remember exactly which older version I was using at the time)

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  #14 (permalink)
 
bobwest's Avatar
 bobwest 
Western Florida
Site Moderator
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
Frequency: Several times daily
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kevinhpchan View Post
Traders, I'm sooooo overwhelmed with the variety of Charting and Trading platforms out there. Which do I choose? I'm evaluating between Sierra Charts, Ninja Trader 8, Metatrader 5. The primary reason I'm choosing these is because there a couple providers of indicators (MBox and some other) support some but not all. Ninja and Meta are the ones that are both supported. I hear amazing things about Sierra, it's stable and customizable but terrible looking UI and hard to use. I hear Ninja is super popular, but slow and unstable.

I'm thinking of signing with AMP Futures which seems to have deals with many platform providers (except Ninja).

I'm overwhelmed. Appreciate guidance. Thanks in advance!

I've being trading Options using ThinkorSwim. It's a great platform but their commissions for futures are expensive. I'm also new to Futures trading.

I'm responding mainly to your feeling of being overwhelmed with the available choices.... I sympathize, but would like to tell you that you may be giving yourself more grief than you need to, which I hope will come as a relief.

I think you would do quite well with either NinjaTrader or SierraChart. As to which one to choose, there have already been some good posts on the subject. Here is my take on the pros and cons:

- Ninja is only available now with a few brokers, because NT has gone into the brokerage business themselves and this has limited the brokers they do business with.

- Ninja is going through growing pains as it rolls out (and finishes) its current release, NT8, which is a complete rewrite. There are still some issues, but much less than in the past. Most people are finding it stable and usable.

- SierraChart is solid and generally faster than NT (although it does take a longer time, usually, to load charts initially in a session -- after that, it is much faster.)

- SierraChart's user interface is complicated, and the online documentation was written by a maniac. Once you get more familiar with the platform and the documentation, it does get easier to understand, and to see its logic. It may take a little time, though.

- SierraChart is much more complete in the sense of having features already incorporated into the product without needing to turn to external sources such as vendors or user programmers. However, there is a huge library of add-ons available, written by user programmers, which extends Ninja's functionality. This is available on FIO (in the download section and in threads to request new indicators) and elsewhere.

On balance, I think that the pluses and minuses of the two are manageable. They do have their differences.... But with all that said, the differences are less than they appear, and either will probably do for most traders.

The best advice would be to take each out for a spin with a demo version from a broker who provides it, and also look into the brokers, since most brokers will not have both (actually, most brokers will not have Ninja. ) Your personal assessment of the platforms -- what you personally like or don't like -- may be much more important than the views of others, myself included.

But don't be overwhelmed. The fact is that either will probably do well for what you need. This does not need to be a terribly difficult decision.

Bob.

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  #15 (permalink)
 Grantx 
Reading UK
Legendary no drama Llama
 
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bobwest View Post

the online documentation was written by a maniac.



A grumpy maniac with a grudge against society, strung high on caffeine, and kept locked in the basement all by himself with the backup tapes and old computer equipment.

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  #16 (permalink)
 
bobwest's Avatar
 bobwest 
Western Florida
Site Moderator
 
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Grantx View Post


A grumpy maniac with a grudge against society, strung high on caffeine, and kept locked in the basement all by himself with the backup tapes and old computer equipment.

Anyone who has not used SierraChart may not fully appreciate the absolute accuracy of this comment, so I thought I would provide a simple example -- one of my favorites, actually.

This is a direct quote from the SC "Help" page:


Quoting 
I Want Real-time Futures Data, I am Not Happy and I Want to Talk to Someone

You need to understand that real-time futures data is controlled by exchanges and they set the policies. These policies are irrational and greedy. Sierra Chart does not set these policies. You need to read through the information on this page and understand this subject. It is your responsibility to learn the information on this page. This is not difficult.

If you are not going to read this information on this page, then in general it is not worth our time to spend time on the telephone regarding this subject. We waste far too much time explaining real-time futures data and handling the associated problems. The information on this page is a manifestation of exchange policies. It is a complicated subject, but you need to take the time to read this page.

We have taken far too much abuse related real-time futures data and all of the side effects of these garbage policies from the exchanges. If you are looking to complain, do not complain to us. Direct your complaint towards the exchanges. It does not help to complain to us or tell us things are too complicated. Your complaint belongs with the exchanges.

Let us give you a particular scenario of why we will not talk to someone on the phone about this. Let's say you do not have a funded futures trading account, and you want real-time data for the S&P 500 futures and crude oil futures. You thought you could get this for 24 USD a month and then you learn that the real cost is going to be another 162 USD a month. You then say that this is not worth it, and you want a refund. Why are we going to be on the phone trying to sell services that we receive nothing for and are ridiculously overpriced? Not only do we not earn any money on exchange fees. We do not earn any money on the data feed itself either.

Then, after some more ranting:


Quoting 
Do Not Complain! / Zero Tolerance Policy

If you have a complaint about the information on this page and the exchange fees that the exchanges want, and the complexity and high costs that exchanges like the CME introduce, take your complaint to the exchanges. Do not communicate this to Sierra Chart support, otherwise we will not respond! We have a zero-tolerance policy in this regard.

(Link: Is Historical and Real-time Futures Data Included? - Sierra Chart )

This is priceless SierraChart stuff.

I should point out that what they are ranting about is a policy of CME that requires exorbitant fees for access to data if you don't have a funded trading account with a broker, and I do agree with the substance of their complaint, so it's not like it's totally unfounded.

But it is classic SierraChart. Got to love it.

Bob.

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  #17 (permalink)
ycomp
Europe-ish
 
Posts: 177 since Sep 2013
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I actually enjoyed their rant against IG Markets... but their solution to supporting new brokers sucks... basically after that fiasco, they don't want to do any work themselves to support any new brokers, instead they want any new broker to adopt a new "standard" API that SC themselves created. Well that would be nice, wouldn't it.. lol

https://www.sierrachart.com/SupportBoard.php?ThreadID=16355

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  #18 (permalink)
 
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 bobwest 
Western Florida
Site Moderator
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
Frequency: Several times daily
Duration: Minutes
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bobwest View Post
But it is classic SierraChart. Got to love it.

Just to follow up on this post, although you may have, at first, some difficulty with learning both the program and the organization of the Help file (there's a learning curve for the Help also ), and it is definitely quirky, as you get the hang of it (the platform and the documentatation) you will probably find that, somewhere in all this, there is just about everything that you need, or never knew you would need, or have ever even thought of. It will just take an effort at first.

I think the effort is worth it, but that's a personal decision.

Bob.

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  #19 (permalink)
 Grantx 
Reading UK
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bobwest View Post
Just to follow up on this post, although you may have, at first, some difficulty with learning both the program and the organization of the Help file (there's a learning curve for the Help also ), and it is definitely quirky, as you get the hang of it (the platform and the documentatation) you will probably find that, somewhere in all this, there is just about everything that you need, or never knew you would need, or have ever even thought of. It will just take an effort at first.

I think the effort is worth it, but that's a personal decision.

Bob.

Its not good enough to just pay. You have to want it. You have to earn the right to use this platform. Its special selection to discourages the weak

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  #20 (permalink)
 
CenFlo's Avatar
 CenFlo 
Tampa FL
 
Experience: None
Platform: TOS/TradingView
Broker: TDA
Trading: Equities/Cryptos
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Last Updated on January 11, 2021


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