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Platform recommendations please
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Created: by pjsgsy Attachments:0

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Platform recommendations please

  #1 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
St. Peter Port, Guernsey, UK
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: tws, ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 7 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 27 given, 12 received

Platform recommendations please

Hi,

One of my first posts here. I'm thinking there must be a lot of people who might be able to offer some suggestions based on real-world usage and not marketing fluff!

I currently use Ninjatrader 8 and the Jigsaw DOM. Unfortunately, I cannot get the performance I need out of it and it's simply unusable during periods of high volatility, like today in ES. It's not down to an under powered PC or my data connection (and please assume that for arguments sake).

So, what I'm looking for is a new, all in one platform (hopefully) that does what I need.

And, that is

Ability to custom code (I've a ton of investment in NT8 C#)
Unirenko bar type as well as the usual candles etc.
Ladder charts
Hopefully a bunch of standard indies like CDelta, MACD, etc.
A proper scalpers type DOM that shows traded volume in real-time (not the profile, but block by block), like the Jigsaw dom (which is excellent btw - I just can't get it to perform enough on my setup).
Manage orders from the DOM and charts.
Full tick by tick data from a decent provider
Can connect to IB for orders (though I am open to moving broker)
Hopefully has a community for coders
And, most importantly, can support and perform tick by tick, in real time for maybe up to 8 monitors (I use 4 but would use more if NT could cope), with maybe a DOM and a few Charts for 7-8 instruments across each screen in periods of volatility like we have now. I have been unable to do this with my current setup.


In short, I want a faster version of what I have I like what I have, I've perfected it, but I just cannot get it to perform in my situation. Unfortunately, I've already pretty much maxed out the hardware side and sadly am now looking for alternative platforms.

When I briefly tried a platform like MT5, it seemed lightening quick compared to my current setup (though it was running on the same hardware), though I did little with it.

Any recommendations from users or vendors as for platforms to investigate would be most welcome.

Thanks.

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
Elite Member
Gits (Hooglede) Belgium
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: NinjaTrader, Proprietary,
Broker/Data: Ninjabrokerage/IQfeed + Synthetic datafeed
Favorite Futures: 6A, 6B, 6C, 6E, 6J, 6S, ES, NQ, YM, AEX, CL, NG, ZB, ZN, ZC, ZS, GC
 
rleplae's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,868 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 2,235 given, 4,936 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


Is it possible, by any chance, that you have a few indicators loaded that are crappy coded and bring your system down ?

NT is a great platform with ability to extend it many ways,
comes with this feature, the ability to kill it very easy also...

There is a difference between code that is working
and code that is working efficiently...

I use ninjatrader with iqfeed and many things around, but i had to optimize on many fronts
how all the components work togehter.

I will give you one example :
I build a real-time risk reversal engine, that is an engine that will take in the options on the
FDAX and AEX and calculate if the market makers price the options more expensively on the
put or on the call side, this is what is called the volatility smile curve..

Have this piece of software do the math correctly is one thing, being able to keep up with
the avalanche of data update when the FDAX opens is another thing. I needed quite a bit
of tricks to make it work without lag.. and make it into a real-time engine without lag..

Same is true for charting and indi's, while a lot more easy... I'm giving an extreme example...

Bottom line... you can take any good platform that allows extension/custom coding and
bring it down.. The rest is .. personal preference, experience and religion.. like A is better
than B

the best one is the one you master, and it seems you know already a bit of NT
just identify and fix the bottlenecks... is the task..

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  #4 (permalink)
Elite Member
Tallinn, Estonia
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Favorite Futures: NAS100
 
lemons's Avatar
 
Posts: 842 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 1,597 given, 2,095 received

Give a try for https://www.sierrachart.com/

They shoud have free trail.

And decide if you like them.

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  #5 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.ninjatrader.com 
Denver, CO
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Favorite Futures: ES
 
NinjaTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,396 since May 2010
Thanks: 160 given, 2,088 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

Today is definitely not a high volume day that would tax any platform. My guess is you have something else going on such as inefficient code that can hijack performance. If you haven't done so already, I suggest reaching out to our support team for assistance.

Disclosure: This communication is sent to you by NinjaTrader, LLC, a software development company which owns and supports all proprietary technology relating to and including the NinjaTrader trading platform.
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  #6 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
St. Peter Port, Guernsey, UK
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: tws, ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 7 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 27 given, 12 received


NinjaTrader View Post
Today is definitely not a high volume day that would tax any platform. My guess is you have something else going on such as inefficient code that can hijack performance. If you haven't done so already, I suggest reaching out to our support team for assistance.

Hi,

Thanks - I've reached out many times and we've worked on many bugs over time The performance issues however, it is always pointed at an indicator or code. Yes, if I run NT8 with one chart open and Candle's, it's fine. I'd love to keep it, especially with the huge investment in time I have in it, but based on the interaction w'eve had to date, I'm not sure this is possible. The code I do have is fairly simple, though some of it is tick by tick. I also use a third party DOM and (as NT does not support it), third party unirenko. As all these things kind of exempt NT support from really digging to much further I think. Yes, if I illuminate all this stuff, it'll work better. But, that's what I trade off. I need it. In discussions with your support, it seems partly due to the threading model employed by NT8 and likely the indicators like the DOM and my code that does in fact cause the issue, though I am not doing anything more significant than number crunching most of the time. A few chart markers etc.

Thank you for the response though. I am impressed you monitor and responded so quickly (one thing I have always been impressed with, despite the 'delete your workspace that took you days to perfect and start again' type support responses that drive me bonkers!

btw - Just to add, given it's realted. In efforts to resolve this and pinpoint the issue, I asked re performance profiling or logging and was told it was not possible. What would be fantastic and would point the finger right away would be if you could enable an optional debug log with some simple timing of how long the thread spent on each indicator, chart render, etc. That would make it possible to optimise individual components and compare performances. As far as I've been told though, this is not possible (I tried performance monitoring with VS, but too complex/slow to be of any use with real-time data)

Just an example btw - I have volume profile (third party), DOM (third party), Renko (third party). Apart from that, it's mostly simple code not doing much. I use your new ladder too (used to use my own). Ladder is currently about 20 points behind the /es exchange price... If I close down the VP, renko chart and all other charts with ES on, ladder speeds up and tries to catch up . When you trade on ticks though, that type of lag kill any chance of success and I need those charts/VP too.


Last edited by pjsgsy; March 1st, 2018 at 03:38 PM. Reason: more info
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  #7 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: duh hammer!
 
wldman's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,402 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 1,180 given, 3,537 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

FWIW...

@NinjaTrader is best in class analytics and order entry api. If that is not your experience it is not NT that is bogging, it is something else. BUT NT will help you try to fix your non NT issues.

Interactive Brokers is the best broker dealer in the business.

I currently use Think or Swim and TD Ameritrade. They are very good, reliable and not the most expensive. I am where I am because I have a few accounts that have to stay there and because the ToS is free. That platform is reasonable, but its not NT.

I HATE that TD will not allow futures quotes sent to NT. I often reconsider with the aim of going back to NT and IB and determining the outcome could not be closer.

I review this once a quarter and I may leave some accounts behind if it does not ramp the expenses too much.

Also note that if you are an options person, tastyworks is awesome...and they charge no closing side commissions on equity and options.

Dan

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  #8 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
St. Peter Port, Guernsey, UK
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: tws, ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 7 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 27 given, 12 received


wldman View Post
@NinjaTrader is best in class analytics and order entry api. If that is not your experience it is not NT that is bogging, it is something else. BUT NT will help you try to fix your non NT issues.

Interactive Brokers is the best broker dealer in the business.

I currently use Think or Swim and TD Ameritrade. They are very good, reliable and not the most expensive. I am where I am because I have a few accounts that have to stay there and because the ToS is free. That platform is reasonable, but its not NT.

I HATE that TD will not allow futures quotes sent to NT. I often reconsider with the aim of going back to NT and IB and determining the outcome could not be closer.

I review this once a quarter and I may leave some accounts behind if it does not ramp the expenses too much.

Also note that if you are an options person, tastyworks is awesome...and they charge no closing side commissions on equity and options.

Dan

Thanks. If I get a lot of feedback that NT under these situations works, I'll probably keep trying. I know some people that experience similar lagging though, so it's not just me. TOS I always wanted to get on-board, but alas, not in a country where they allow me too. Same goes for Tastyworks as I'd probably use them too if I could on the options side. Maybe I'll have to move to the US...

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  #9 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.ninjatrader.com 
Denver, CO
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Favorite Futures: ES
 
NinjaTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,396 since May 2010
Thanks: 160 given, 2,088 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


pjsgsy View Post
Thanks. If I get a lot of feedback that NT under these situations works, I'll probably keep trying. I know some people that experience similar lagging though, so it's not just me. TOS I always wanted to get on-board, but alas, not in a country where they allow me too. Same goes for Tastyworks as I'd probably use them too if I could on the options side. Maybe I'll have to move to the US...

For sure others have experienced lagging and to my recollection, in all cases where we have been able to assist, the cause has been custom/3rd party scripts. That being said, we are always working on improving all areas of the platform which includes performance.

Disclosure: This communication is sent to you by NinjaTrader, LLC, a software development company which owns and supports all proprietary technology relating to and including the NinjaTrader trading platform.
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  #10 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
St. Peter Port, Guernsey, UK
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: tws, ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 7 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 27 given, 12 received



NinjaTrader View Post
For sure others have experienced lagging and to my recollection, in all cases where we have been able to assist, the cause has been custom/3rd party scripts. That being said, we are always working on improving all areas of the platform which includes performance.

If there were only a way to debug it..... ??

I have third party Volume profile, because NT doesn't (or didn't and still doesn't do what I need) do it.
I have third party UniRenko, because NT doesn't do it.
I have third party DOM, because the SuperDom is no good for my type of trading.

So, yes, if I remove all these and a few indicators like volume, macd, it runs better, but I need all these!

If there were a way of determining where the performance issues lie, I'd happily work with with NT support to resolve, but the answers I pretty much got so far as, 'it's likely a third part indicator', and to clear my workspace, go back to blank charts, and add each thing again until I try and determine what the issue is. That's very hard to do when I am trying to work day to day and it has to wait until high volatility to see if the issue resolved. It's not an easy problem to resolve.

Now if NT had the aforementioned debug log or a way of determining where the time was being spent (down to indicator level), then we go from trial, error and frustration to immediately pinpointing an area for improvement with a way to measure success. It does not as far as I know though, and I have asked support. As it is, I don't believe I have anything that is bad. Maybe more than most using NT, but certainly not more than pro trading workstations I have seen in prop shops etc.

In summary, 4 monitors. Maybe 6 active futures instruments on charts. I have several charts for some instruments. Volume profiles for each. A ladder. Some longer term daily charts for each instrument. A screen for market internals/overview. 3 DOM's. That grinds my 8 core >4Ghz, 64Gb RAm, machine to a halt on days like today (actually, I will clarify that - NT grinds to a halt, my PC does not. It'll humm along at about 60% CPU during high vol). Somethings up, but I've not been able to resolve it since NT7 and through various upgrades.


Last edited by pjsgsy; March 1st, 2018 at 06:16 PM.
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