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Level 2 best platform?
Started: by davethetrade Views / Replies:1,711 / 32
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Level 2 best platform?

  #21 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
Futures Experience: None
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MrN1njaTrader View Post
Thanks for quick reply, yes I thought the same but want to be sure there is no real technological solution for this. I like to trade stocks with lack of liquidity and very low float as those are the most profitable for me because of my small account, I can't really trade AAPL or SPY or any other super liquid contract because of the very small moves they make. 1$ move for SPY is a daily move and with my small account to buy or short 40 contract to make 40$ it doesn't make sense.
Thanks for approve my thought, I guess I will have to relied just on tape to try found entry points for those low liquidity contracts. (:

there're different tools a trader could use. probably the most common ones are:

- level II
- time & sales
- dom

while level II and dom are showing similar things, you can't trade off level II. but for stocks with not much liquidity, maybe a simple level II is more useful. ninja trader has of course all 3 tools mentioned.

here're some examples (I use tos for stocks), but since it's weekend, there's not much data available

level II from nt8:

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level II, time & sales and dom from tos:

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  #22 (permalink)
Elite Member
Tel Aviv Ha'merkaz Israel
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw, MultiCharts, NT7
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Silvester17 View Post
there're different tools a trader could use. probably the most common ones are:

- level II
- time & sales
- dom

while level II and dom are showing similar things, you can't trade off level II. but for stocks with not much liquidity, maybe a simple level II is more useful. ninja trader has of course all 3 tools mentioned.

here're some examples (I use tos for stocks), but since it's weekend, there's not much data available

level II from nt8:

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).



level II, time & sales and dom from tos:

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

On my trading setup I use only t&s and DOM. My frustration came of this Friday session when the DOM was absolutely unhelpful and actually harmful for me when I tried to trade ETRM hype and the spread and lack of liquidity just killed me. I couldn't see any entery point on it. Yes after the session is over I wanted to kill my self for not keeping it simple and get in on vwap breakout confirmation, but I guess that is the price for not truly believing in my idea. So I thought maybe there is a DOM out there that can show only ticks where the bids and offers are on each moment like the lvl2 only with DOM presentation as the lvl2 is just uncomfortable for me.

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  #23 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Gothenburg
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: currency
 
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Wow so many posts this is amazing Ive been looking more into jigsaw and actually quite like it. Is there any indicator that can show me if we are in a high or low liquid market. I mean of course we could look at the chart but i want something more precis if its possible. Maybe an indicator for ninjatrader that show liquidity.

This can be very useful with the depth of market since it can help us detect spoofing and fake limit orders. Remember if the market is thick (lot of liquidity) the spoofing can be done closer to current price. In low liquid market though spoofing close to current price is dangerous since price easily can break throug 3 or 4 levels within seconds. Spoofing whould in such situation be dangerous since they could unintentionaly get filled. Therefore in low liquid markets a big limit order lets say 4 or 5 levels beneath you (in uptrend) could be viewed with caution since it can be fake. And if you see lot of limit orders close too curent price you can be more confident.

Just some information, so any way of looking at liquidity easily in ninjatrader except of looking at the chart? Also i wonder what data you guys conect ninjatrader too do you use the free kinnetick or pay for other data services?

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  #24 (permalink)
Elite Member
Saskatchewan
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
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Blash View Post
I think there might be a EUR VIX as an internal for the 6E also an OIL VIX I know for sure for CL but IMHO they aren't the quite the same as using the VIX for index futures and specifically for ES.

The internals I mentioned earlier won't work IMHO for currency futures.

Ron


Sent from my iPhone using futures.io

Hi ron what ticker symbol would it be for the oil vix? If you dont mind sharing and sorry for high jacking the thread.
Oh nm i got her lol "ovx"
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Thank you to everyone who helped me in my journal contest it all ment alot.

Last edited by DRock306; January 9th, 2017 at 08:06 AM.
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  #25 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Gothenburg
 
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Ron i also have a question if you dont mind I consider to buy jigsaw DOM and i wonder two things.

1. How useful would you say the automatic iceberg orders alerts are when used alone in an area where we can expect the market to turn around? I guess that the speedometer (or what its called), you know that thing showing the speed of the tape is important aswell, or am i right?

2. Ive noticed that executed orders show on the DOM aswell and wonder if that is enough to look at or if you still feel a need of using time and sales?

Maybe it can help others too, anyone who knows are more than welcome to answer. ^^

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  #26 (permalink)
Market Wizard
London UK
 
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davethetrade View Post
Ron i also have a question if you dont mind I consider to buy jigsaw DOM and i wonder two things.

1. How useful would you say the automatic iceberg orders alerts are when used alone in an area where we can expect the market to turn around? I guess that the speedometer (or what its called), you know that thing showing the speed of the tape is important aswell, or am i right?

2. Ive noticed that executed orders show on the DOM aswell and wonder if that is enough to look at or if you still feel a need of using time and sales?

Maybe it can help others too, anyone who knows are more than welcome to answer. ^^

My take is that you are focussing too much on iceberg orders - bear in mind that while they are relatively easy to spot, especially with Jigsaw, determining that an iceberg order is at a particular level does not necessarily mean market is going to reverse at that spot.

If you're relatively new at reading the order flow my suggestion is to go through the free theory videos on the Jigsaw website which I think are great. They explain - among many other things - what part iceberg orders play in spotting reversals.

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  #27 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Gothenburg
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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Thanks for the answer I understand that the orderbook shows alot of noise and that iceberg orders on the wrong place in the market is pretty useless. But exactly how useful is iceberg orders in situations where i have a solid support or resistance? Must be pretty important huh?

I mean if it is a place where institutional traders want to get filled they would probably not go in with 10 000 000$ at once since that would probably cause panic which would lead to a situation where some of that 10 000 000$ would get filled at a worse price? So if i dont get an iceberg where i want to step in its probably a bad trade? But i understand that theres probably more to look for aswell.

How often do iceberg orders come, do they come all the time. Because if thats the case its probably useless?
I appriciate all inputs, ive tried to look at jigsaws training material. They are great

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  #28 (permalink)
Elite Member
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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davethetrade View Post
Thanks for the answer I understand that the orderbook shows alot of noise and that iceberg orders on the wrong place in the market is pretty useless. But exactly how useful is iceberg orders in situations where i have a solid support or resistance? Must be pretty important huh?

I mean if it is a place where institutional traders want to get filled they would probably not go in with 10 000 000$ at once since that would probably cause panic which would lead to a situation where some of that 10 000 000$ would get filled at a worse price? So if i dont get an iceberg where i want to step in its probably a bad trade? But i understand that theres probably more to look for aswell.

How often do iceberg orders come, do they come all the time. Because if thats the case its probably useless?
I appriciate all inputs, ive tried to look at jigsaws training material. They are great

Anyone with TT's platform or a bunch of others can use Iceberg orders, spreaders use them to leg in. On their own they mean nothing. You need context too in order to frame up a trade idea. At the end of the day your looking for as many things that you've noted over the thousands of hours of screen time, to add up to a trigger moment, a moment that you know over time will be positive for your expectancy...It won't work every time.

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  #29 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Gothenburg
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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Posts: 22 since Mar 2016
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Thanks for answer Im just hoping to get a little tiny extra boost in my trades by using more orderflow analysis. I have a strategy and look at footprintcharts and marketprofile aswell and i have well over thousands of hours with screen time, i know that trading is not a quick fix believe me, but i already have good results and hoping to improve even more. ^^

I think spotting absorption is fairly easy and i get that, but i wonder if anyone have any ida of how to use the parameters who shows the speed of the tape in jigsaw (Speed of time and sales) seem like you can look at different timeperiods which i think is kind of confusing.

Is there any manual or tutorial on those things and how do you guys use them?

Happy trading to all ^^
Dave.


Last edited by davethetrade; January 10th, 2017 at 10:44 AM.
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  #30 (permalink)
Seth
Salt Lake City, Utah
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw, NinjaTrader8
Favorite Futures: ZB
 
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I've found that we spend so much time looking for that extra indicator that we look past some of the tools that actually help us. Jigsaw is great because of features like how it shows executed orders, and the change in the level 2. However, what I think really sets it apart as a must have tool is all of the order entry enhancements. The advantage of a DOM over other tools like a footprint chart is that the DOM helps you make moves in a fast moving market. I can program just about any DOM column you want in NinjaTrader 8, but they're useless without the order entry enhancements you get from the Jigsaw DOM.

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