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tastyworks

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  #1 (permalink)
 suko 
Kyoto, Japan
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TW TOS LiveVol
Broker: TD, TW, IB, Saxo
Trading: VXX, VIX, SPY
 
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A next-gen options and futures trading platform from the original team that created Thinkorswim

Starting Jan. 3. 2017
Affiliated with tastytrade
Not affiliated with TD
Software based on dough.com

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  #3 (permalink)
 suko 
Kyoto, Japan
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TW TOS LiveVol
Broker: TD, TW, IB, Saxo
Trading: VXX, VIX, SPY
 
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Posts: 1,316 since Oct 2013
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Commissions are announced:

$1 per options contract with 0.10 contract closing fee

$2.50 per futures contract

Cheaper than TDA.

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  #4 (permalink)
 Skidboot 
Houston, TX
 
 
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$2.50 + 0.30 (clearing) flat rate on futures and no commision + 0.30 (clearing) on closing trades.

Does this mean I pay 3.10 for a round turn? Am I reading that right?

If this is true, it is better than most discount brokers.

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  #5 (permalink)
 aoneil42 
Denver, CO, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Thinkorswim
Trading: Copper, Hogs, 10yr
 
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shanmugs View Post
$2.50 + 0.30 (clearing) flat rate on futures and no commision + 0.30 (clearing) on closing trades.



Does this mean I pay 3.10 for a round turn? Am I reading that right?



If this is true, it is better than most discount brokers.



I was wondering the same. Signed up to be notified when futures trading is brought on, as well as the mobile app. Supposedly "soon"...


Sent from my iPhone using futures.io

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  #6 (permalink)
 suko 
Kyoto, Japan
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TW TOS LiveVol
Broker: TD, TW, IB, Saxo
Trading: VXX, VIX, SPY
 
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Posts: 1,316 since Oct 2013
Thanks: 834 given, 1,403 received

I started trading TW this past week in an IRA. I am not giving up my TOS account. TW has a long way to go toward replicating the functionalities of TOS, to be sure.

It will be interesting to see how the lack of commission on closing trades will affect my trading. Perhaps this will encourage scaling out?

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  #7 (permalink)
 nathanologist 
Burlington, Vermont
 
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I transferred my accounts there to take advantage of the 2 years free "Bob the trader" subscription promo.
Nothing to write home about, but it is less costly commissions than I was getting, and the platform is adequate for me. I like the trade setup visualizations, it's helping me to understand options better. FWIW.

Nate
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  #8 (permalink)
 blb014 
Dallas, Texas
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS
Trading: AAPL, /ES, IWM, SPY Options
 
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suko View Post
I started trading TW this past week in an IRA. I am not giving up my TOS account. TW has a long way to go toward replicating the functionalities of TOS, to be sure.

It will be interesting to see how the lack of commission on closing trades will affect my trading. Perhaps this will encourage scaling out?

Good to know. I've got so much time invested in learning TOS, (not a computer whiz), I still want to see how TW functions so I will open an account. My guess is when TD bought TOS from Sosnoff & Sheridan they had a non-compete for so many years. It must have expired in 2017. They are the pioneers in online option trading, way before anyone else, so I suspect that it will become a top-notch platform.

Volatility is good for the market and trading.

Preservation of capital is the most important concept for those who want to stay in the trading game for the long haul. - Van Tharp
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  #9 (permalink)
 blb014 
Dallas, Texas
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS
Trading: AAPL, /ES, IWM, SPY Options
 
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nathanologist View Post
I transferred my accounts there to take advantage of the 2 years free "Bob the trader" subscription promo.
Nothing to write home about, but it is less costly commissions than I was getting, and the platform is adequate for me. I like the trade setup visualizations, it's helping me to understand options better. FWIW.

Good to know. I'm been wanted to check it out just haven't had the time

Volatility is good for the market and trading.

Preservation of capital is the most important concept for those who want to stay in the trading game for the long haul. - Van Tharp
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  #10 (permalink)
 suko 
Kyoto, Japan
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TW TOS LiveVol
Broker: TD, TW, IB, Saxo
Trading: VXX, VIX, SPY
 
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Posts: 1,316 since Oct 2013
Thanks: 834 given, 1,403 received


They have another year or two to go of development before the platform gets the features everybody loves about TOS such as the Analyze tab and the scripting.

A couple of things TW does have built-in that TOS doesn't: 1) liquidity ratings 2) correlation scores. The liquidity score definitely affects your trade selection.

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  #11 (permalink)
 nathanologist 
Burlington, Vermont
 
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suko View Post
They have another year or two to go of development before the platform gets the features everybody loves about TOS such as the Analyze tab and the scripting.

A couple of things TW does have built-in that TOS doesn't: 1) liquidity ratings 2) correlation scores. The liquidity score definitely affects your trade selection.

Agreed. not a huge fan of the new active trade GUI. but it's a start. It'll get better.

Nate
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  #12 (permalink)
 suko 
Kyoto, Japan
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TW TOS LiveVol
Broker: TD, TW, IB, Saxo
Trading: VXX, VIX, SPY
 
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Posts: 1,316 since Oct 2013
Thanks: 834 given, 1,403 received

Rather than encouraging me to make more trades, I want a GUI that forces me to only take the A trades!

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  #13 (permalink)
 suko 
Kyoto, Japan
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TW TOS LiveVol
Broker: TD, TW, IB, Saxo
Trading: VXX, VIX, SPY
 
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Posts: 1,316 since Oct 2013
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Here is a very slick options tracking spreadsheet for Tastyworks from Ben on the Research Team.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KTlhVtHdVw54ge2WSXlcyeiaZFOpeTPUSGEiXXZfvHw/edit

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  #14 (permalink)
 suko 
Kyoto, Japan
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TW TOS LiveVol
Broker: TD, TW, IB, Saxo
Trading: VXX, VIX, SPY
 
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Futures rolled out on Tastyworks.

But no /VX futures. Bummed about that.

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  #15 (permalink)
 LDog 
Lexington KY/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC,TastyWorks,ToS
Broker: TDA, OANDA,AMP/CQG/SC
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suko View Post
Futures rolled out on Tastyworks.

But no /VX futures. Bummed about that.

Looks like only Individual Margin accounts, so far - no ROTHs

(It's OK, I'm not 'ready' for that yet, anyway lol)

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  #16 (permalink)
 timefreedom 
Indianapolis, IN USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader TOS Custom
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I've heard they are using Apex to clear their trades. Not sure if that's true and haven't looked into it but would be curious if anyone knows for sure.

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  #17 (permalink)
 LDog 
Lexington KY/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC,TastyWorks,ToS
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timefreedom View Post
I've heard they are using Apex to clear their trades. Not sure if that's true and haven't looked into it but would be curious if anyone knows for sure.

For Stocks/Options, that's who my trades clear through in my Roth account - I think was the same with TDA/ToS, if I remember correctly. Not sure about Futures, sorry.

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  #18 (permalink)
 mscholder 
Incline Village + NV or elsewhere in the world
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: E*Trade, TOS, IB & T'wrks
Trading: Emini ES
 
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I eagerly opened a Tastyworks (TW) account a few months ago to trade options thinking that the costs would be must lower than TOS and E-Trade Pro/Options House. Admittedly, I had confused the TW $5 equity trade costs and the options trade costs.

After six months of trading I tried to reconcile my trading journal results with my TW net liquidation balance. Then I saw that the commissions and fees impact was much higher than expected.

Unlike TOS and E-Trade Pro/Options House, the options commissions are not shown at the entry verification window on TW. TW claims to be working to add that component to the verification window.

Further, in comparing the same pending trade on the different platforms, I discovered that the options commission costs at TW for many trades were higher than the Options House costs, particularly if the options expire OTM, since TW essentially charges the round trip commissions up front. For example, the round trip costs to trade Costco options were much lower on Options House. I may get better pricing on Options House due to my portfolio balance at E-Trade.

Please compare the commission and fee costs on the different platforms on a few different option trades before deciding on which broker to use for a certain trade. Or you could end up like me, down $4k in commissions and $1k in fees after 7 months of trading in my TW account.

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  #19 (permalink)
 LDog 
Lexington KY/USA
 
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I'm trading 1 lot spreads and buying OTM calls in a ROTH IRA account and am only seeing $1 commision + 14 - 15 cent fees on the open and the same fees on close (with no commision) ... dunno.

Edit: To be clear, it is $1 per contract so each spread has a total commission + fees of $2.30 to open.

I do wish they'd break it out for you - I have to look at the statement to see the effect of the commission and fees, but the Account Transactions to get the list of the fees.

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  #20 (permalink)
 mscholder 
Incline Village + NV or elsewhere in the world
 
Experience: Intermediate
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The majority of my trading has been swing and day trading in stocks so commissions were never a substantial concern.

I agree that the cost is $1 per contract with TW.

Everyone has their individual approach and "trading 1 lot spreads and buying OTM calls" may work for you. I have been trying to sell option premium to generate income with defined and undefined risk trades.

My 20 contract GLD iron condor trade with a profit target of $340 (50% of $680 max profit) before commissions and fees entered at 45 DTE, 56% PoP, has now incurred $240 in commissions with a couple of rolls. I am now just trying to break even on the trade. Perhaps it was a dumb trade to begin.

Options House is .50 per contract per transaction, so 1/2 the cost of TW if held to expiration or the same cost as TW if closed out.

For any Traders who are newer to Options, you should always be aware and consider the commission costs when looking to enter and roll sizable trades.













LDog View Post
I'm trading 1 lot spreads and buying OTM calls in a ROTH IRA account and am only seeing $1 commision + 14 - 15 cent fees on the open and the same fees on close (with no commision) ... dunno.

Edit: To be clear, it is $1 per contract so each spread has a total commission + fees of $2.30 to open.

I do with they'd break it out for you - I have to look at the statement to see the effect of the commission and fees, but the Account Transactions to get the list of the fees.


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  #21 (permalink)
 tradersync 
Calgary + Canada
 
 
Posts: 5 since Nov 2017

I have been using the platform for a while and I can tell you they still need to do some work on charting. Being that said, it is in my opinon a solid platform. I highly recommend you guys give it a try, you could just save money with the low commission

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 davedog 
columbia, sc
 
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I have been using TW since march. I have a small account ($5000). I normally sell options, 1 contract/underlying and about 5 contracts total a month.

TW is great for low volume traders. If you are trading 5-20 contracts at a time, then you can get lower fees elsewhere, but for trading single contracts these fees are pretty good for me.

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  #23 (permalink)
 suko 
Kyoto, Japan
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TW TOS LiveVol
Broker: TD, TW, IB, Saxo
Trading: VXX, VIX, SPY
 
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Posts: 1,316 since Oct 2013
Thanks: 834 given, 1,403 received

>>My 20 contract GLD iron condor trade with a profit target of $340 (50% of $680 max profit) before commissions and fees entered at 45 DTE, 56% PoP, has now incurred $240 in commissions with a couple of rolls. I am now just trying to break even on the trade. Perhaps it was a dumb trade to begin.


This reminds me of what Mike Bellafiore of SMBU said one time about their prop options trading, that mostly they only trade neutral the big indexes like SPX. Lose too much in commissions and spread on smaller names. A one contract condor in SPX has about the same BPR as your GLD condor. Marty Schwarz recently came out with a similar statement.

That being said, though, with VIX in the nine and ten handle, you cannot expect to make money selling premium. It's like trying to surf the North Shore in June. Better to stay on the beach and drink beer.


(as for rolling defined risk trades like a condor -- has that become TT doctrine now? It used to be that they said you should not roll defined risk trades)

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  #24 (permalink)
 Alaskajeff 
Fairbanks, Alaska
 
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I recently opened a Roth IRA account with TW. Have made some trades and I can say am really pleased with the commission structure. I have always been a big fan of TOS for trading options. The charts and analytics are second to none. Since TOS sells all their order flow to Citadel, I never could understand why they have to charge both sides of a transaction. Sure they will allow a closing trade for no commissions if the amount is less than .05 cents.

Tastyworks has the pricing broken down before you make the trade, just like in TOS. I am sure their platform will evolve over time into a powerhouse for option traders and until then, I am content to use TW for my trades and TOS for my analytics on options.

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  #25 (permalink)
 nathanologist 
Burlington, Vermont
 
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suko View Post
That being said, though, with VIX in the nine and ten handle, you cannot expect to make money selling premium. It's like trying to surf the North Shore in June. Better to stay on the beach and drink beer.


(as for rolling defined risk trades like a condor -- has that become TT doctrine now? It used to be that they said you should not roll defined risk trades)

no Rolling IC is not a strategy they push. Defined risk you just let it go.

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  #26 (permalink)
 mscholder 
Incline Village + NV or elsewhere in the world
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: E*Trade, TOS, IB & T'wrks
Trading: Emini ES
 
Posts: 21 since Jan 2016
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Hi Suko,

I greatly appreciate your response.

My understanding is that TT supports rolling all or a leg of defined risk trades for either a credit or break-even (B/E), so one can "keep the dream alive" or at least reduce your potential loss. Depending on the circumstances, they support lowering the put strikes or raising the call strikes to improve your potential for success. On my GLD Iron Condor, in one roll, I lowered the puts strike by one point by dropping the call strikes 3 points. Fortunately, I just managed to close the GLD trade for a $240 profit before commissions, but just B/E after commissions.

TT even suggests going inverted, rolling put strikes above the calls strikes, or vice versa, in Iron Condors, to take in more premium to reduce your maximum loss where the trade will mostly be a loser. I am contemplating that trade adjustment for an AMZN Iron Condor, where the market price blew far past my call strikes.

I keep looking for attractive SPX, SPY, and similar index trades, but the IV is usually so low that, for me, the risk is simply too high for the little reward offered.

Of course, TT is not going to suggest that traders stop selling options while the VIX is low since the Tastyworks brokerage needs those commissions. I think that I agree with you that it is too hard to try to sell premium with the VIX and thereby option premiums so low.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

suko View Post
>>My 20 contract GLD iron condor trade with a profit target of $340 (50% of $680 max profit) before commissions and fees entered at 45 DTE, 56% PoP, has now incurred $240 in commissions with a couple of rolls. I am now just trying to break even on the trade. Perhaps it was a dumb trade to begin.


This reminds me of what Mike Bellafiore of SMBU said one time about their prop options trading, that mostly they only trade neutral the big indexes like SPX. Lose too much in commissions and spread on smaller names. A one contract condor in SPX has about the same BPR as your GLD condor. Marty Schwarz recently came out with a similar statement.

That being said, though, with VIX in the nine and ten handle, you cannot expect to make money selling premium. It's like trying to surf the North Shore in June. Better to stay on the beach and drink beer.


(as for rolling defined risk trades like a condor -- has that become TT doctrine now? It used to be that they said you should not roll defined risk trades)


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  #27 (permalink)
 suko 
Kyoto, Japan
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TW TOS LiveVol
Broker: TD, TW, IB, Saxo
Trading: VXX, VIX, SPY
 
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Posts: 1,316 since Oct 2013
Thanks: 834 given, 1,403 received

The way I view it, you don't roll the defined risk and you take it off as a spread. Furthermore, you don't roll the undefined risk trades just to keep the dream alive. You re-evaluate the trade in terms of the original thesis and only roll if it's still as interesting as it was at inception. My hardcore view on rolling.

Here is a low-cost strategy you might want to try. Very wide strikes vertical in very expensive stocks via weekly options, looking for 2:1 RR. PCLN, AMZN, GOOGL, REGN, CMG and a few others -- anything over a couple hundred bucks. This is a strategy that keeps your commissions way down. Best one for me has been CMG, but PCLN has also done very well.

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  #28 (permalink)
 timefreedom 
Indianapolis, IN USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader TOS Custom
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suko View Post
Here is a low-cost strategy you might want to try. Very wide strikes vertical in very expensive stocks via weekly options, looking for 2:1 RR. PCLN, AMZN, GOOGL, REGN, CMG and a few others -- anything over a couple hundred bucks. This is a strategy that keeps your commissions way down. Best one for me has been CMG, but PCLN has also done very well.

@suko
Are you selling the vertical or buying? How do you determine your directional bias? How do you decide which short strike to use?

Thanks.

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  #29 (permalink)
 mscholder 
Incline Village + NV or elsewhere in the world
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: E*Trade, TOS, IB & T'wrks
Trading: Emini ES
 
Posts: 21 since Jan 2016
Thanks: 17 given, 14 received

I agree with your philosophy and try to avoid apparently futile efforts on losing trades - Hope (dreams) is not a viable trading or investment strategy.

I have only rolled DR trades, and usually roll down/up the OTM side to buy more time or strike points for the ITM leg. I have had some success with that tactic (TLT, GLD) to reach a profit or B/E.

I have also added legs to some vertical spreads to create Iron Condors and Iron Butterflies just to cut my max loss when possible.

I may have been more lucky than good on my UR trades and never needed to roll those trades, although before its rebound, PCLN's recent plunge almost erased all my YTD UR trade profits.

Since I previously could not find any good RR in shorter UR trades, I have usually done longer UR trades at 60 - 90 DTE. I have tried to capture more premium by waiting for down days in the market and by selling option expirations beyond the next earnings date but then trying to close at 50 - 70% of max profit before the earnings release date. That approach has worked in this Buy-the-Dip market.

I also appreciate your low-cost strategy in very expensive stocks and will evaluate some very wide strikes verticals in weekly options.


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suko View Post
The way I view it, you don't roll the defined risk and you take it off as a spread. Furthermore, you don't roll the undefined risk trades just to keep the dream alive. You re-evaluate the trade in terms of the original thesis and only roll if it's still as interesting as it was at inception. My hardcore view on rolling.

Here is a low-cost strategy you might want to try. Very wide strikes vertical in very expensive stocks via weekly options, looking for 2:1 RR. PCLN, AMZN, GOOGL, REGN, CMG and a few others -- anything over a couple hundred bucks. This is a strategy that keeps your commissions way down. Best one for me has been CMG, but PCLN has also done very well.


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  #30 (permalink)
 suko 
Kyoto, Japan
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TW TOS LiveVol
Broker: TD, TW, IB, Saxo
Trading: VXX, VIX, SPY
 
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timefreedom View Post
@suko
Are you selling the vertical or buying? How do you determine your directional bias? How do you decide which short strike to use?

Selling. Determining the directional bias is obviously a big problem. Trend trading with your indicator of choice. I like the SLIM Ribbon and not much else. Hull.

I have this strategy on the back burner at the moment as I experiment with a new scanner. What I was doing was just jiggling the strikes around until I could find the best RR in the closest expiration, and which would fit into my sizing parameters. You need to be able to put on at least $2500 in risk to trade PCLN, obviously more is better. I was doing much better with PCLN in bigger size.

With the new scanner software I have lost confidence in my ability to find the optimal strikes and durations on my own, so I can no longer trade in my old way!

I discussed this "HPWS" strategy in my journal here on fio over the last year. Please check it out and ask any questions.

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  #31 (permalink)
 LDog 
Lexington KY/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC,TastyWorks,ToS
Broker: TDA, OANDA,AMP/CQG/SC
Trading: Looking for it/them
 
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Posts: 204 since Sep 2015
Thanks: 10,177 given, 326 received

I think this is kosher to post (email from the vendor to, I assume, all account holders):

Quoting 
Hello, tastynation!

To start off 2018 just right, we want to thank you for your show of unconditional support and irreplaceable loyalty for tastytrade and tastyworks. You are the reason we’re driving change to the financial industry. We’ve not only planned more of what you love, like more live tastytrade shows in 25 cities, more trading tools, more mind-blowing content, more new daily shows – but also stuff that will leave you thinking, “How’d they do THAT?”

tastyworks introduced zero commissions to close trades on Jan 3rd, 2017. Starting tomorrow, on Jan 2nd, 2018, tastyworks is introducing capped commissions for large option trades. This means the most commission you will pay for any single leg option trade is $10* (plus clearing fees). That’s right, just $10* per leg!

Eighteen years ago, when we built thinkorswim, 100 option contracts to open and close was $300+. At the time, we thought $1.50 per contract was cheap. Today, the industry average per contract is about $.70 plus a small ticket charge. So, 100 option contracts today is approximately $150 to open and close at most firms. With tastyworks’ new rate schedule, the same trade will cost $10 in commissions to open, zero in commissions to close and a $20 clearing fee for a total of $30. Compare that rate to any other firm on the planet and remember how good our technology and content is as well. Fees for small options trades (10 contracts or less) stay the same.

But we’re not done. As an added bonus, tastyworks will have twelve monthly drawings for funded accounts (minimum of $2,000) and each month, one customer will win free commissions for 5 years. And no, we haven’t lost our minds. We simply want to do something special and this is just the start.

On the technology side, tastyworks is releasing a new analysis tab, portfolio margin, options on futures, paper trading, an open API, a new scripting language and lots of new mobile features.

So thank you again for the incredible engagement over the past year. You have helped to make tastytrade and tastyworks one of America’s fastest growing financial innovators.
Scott / Woody & the tastyworks team
Kristi / Tom & the tastytrade team


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 optionzen 
Dallas
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ThinkorSwim, Ninjatrader, Multicharts
Broker: Thinkorswim, Ninjatrader Brokerage
 
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Thanks: 137 given, 105 received

I got this email regarding futures commissions fee inquiry from Tastyworks. Fee structure for futures seems to be similar to TOS, this email is almost a month old.

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 Silver Dragon 
Legendary Data Wizard!!!
Cincinnati Ohio
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TastyWorks
Broker: TastyWorks
Trading: FX, Stocks, Options
 
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Posts: 2,010 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 5,763 given, 4,873 received

TastyWorks to announce options will be available for Mini ES and Mini NQ via the TastyWorks platform. Launch was supposed to be today but was delayed to volatility in the market.

Robert

nosce te ipsum

You make your own opportunities in life.
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 Silver Dragon 
Legendary Data Wizard!!!
Cincinnati Ohio
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TastyWorks
Broker: TastyWorks
Trading: FX, Stocks, Options
 
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Posts: 2,010 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 5,763 given, 4,873 received

Starting today you can now trade Crypto on the TastyWorks platform.

Currently they are offering 4 flavors: BTC, BHC, ETH and LTC. They are looking to add more in the future.

Robert




nosce te ipsum

You make your own opportunities in life.
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