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Trading platform trends over time
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Trading platform trends over time

  #11 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker/Data: various
Favorite Futures: futures
 
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mattz View Post
Maybe @kevinkdog could comment on the accuracy of TS backtesting capabilities versus others.

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.


I'm really not the best person to comment on other platforms like Ninja or Multicharts or Amibroker, etc. I just have not used them enough. My guess is if I had started out with any of those 10 years ago, they'd be my favorite platform.

As it turns out, I picked Tradestation 10 years ago. I still use it today. A lot of people do. And I find its backtesting, when done correctly, is pretty accurate, compared to live trading results. You just have to know what a platform can and can't do. For example, I would not use any retail platform to do automated scalping. I've seen enough "Holy Grail" scalping backtests to make me very wary of the results.

So, to Matt's initial question: for my trading (mostly 0-10 day swing trading), I find Tradestation backtesting pretty accurate.

Thanks for asking!

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  #12 (permalink)
Elite Member
SF Bay Area + CA/US
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Tradestation, Ninja
Favorite Futures: NQ ES & Equities
 
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Yupp right. Have seen some good traders using this...and especially since it met their needs and development where they had access to the platform when many other platforms did not offer much functionality.

And right...... they do not have demos. To be on demo also you payup a good chunk of change.....whereas in many other platforms one can keep going without much damage to pockets.

lol...not my bias since am on TS. But also held/hold few other platforms & in process of getting a new one too.

thnx
s


mattz View Post
You are using a search term to gauge "popularity", which is misleading as far as quality of the actual end user and growth. In my opinion, profitability shows that people actually trade, and therefore there is a flow of users who are consistently trade.

The "install base" is also misleading. TradeStation does not allow install unless you a customer.
Counting installs (which includes demos) as a metric will include those who financially not suitable to trade futures, fascinated with trading and perpetual paper traders. These are not traders, yet large enough of a group to affect the entire sample group.

I am an industry guy, not a spectator from the outside, and the user base of TS is a more sophisticated base because I come across them. This is not only amongst retail, but CTAs, hedge funds and family offices that use the TradeStation Prime Brokerage that is offered.

Let me give you another example: I took 2 terms, CQG and Trading Technologies on the same tool you used.
https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=trading%20technologies%2C%20CQG&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B4

They both show that they are in a state of decline. Now, walk into any capitalized FCM in Chicago and I mean the big boys. The only two names you will hear is TT and CQG. They rule Chicago when it comes to their data feeds and platforms. They are not anywhere as far as what these graphs from Google represent.

As a side note, now that I am an IIB, I have a better feel as to what user is attracted to what platform and where people actually trade.

Thanks,
Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.


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  #13 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
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kevinkdog View Post
I'm really not the best person to comment on other platforms like Ninja or Multicharts or Amibroker, etc. I just have not used them enough. My guess is if I had started out with any of those 10 years ago, they'd be my favorite platform.

As it turns out, I picked Tradestation 10 years ago. I still use it today. A lot of people do. And I find its backtesting, when done correctly, is pretty accurate, compared to live trading results. You just have to know what a platform can and can't do. For example, I would not use any retail platform to do automated scalping. I've seen enough "Holy Grail" scalping backtests to make me very wary of the results.

So, to Matt's initial question: for my trading (mostly 0-10 day swing trading), I find Tradestation backtesting pretty accurate.

Thanks for asking!

I do not consider you an average user, and to be honest, this is what I have found amongst TS users from my observations. Some like you have evolved great skills in developing automated strategies.

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

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  #14 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
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mattz View Post
I do not consider you an average user, and to be honest, this is what I have found amongst TS users from my observations. Some like you have evolved great skills in developing automated strategies.

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.


The trend now with most platforms (Tradestation included) is to go Object Oriented in their programming approach. Tradestation calls it "OOEL" Multicharts has ".Net" etc. Lots more functionality, at the cost of more complication.


This was once explained to me as follows:

"Easy Language was written for traders, by traders. The new object oriented versions/languages were written by programmers, for programmers."


Eventually, I bet everyone is forced to the new versions. That will suck for a dinosaur like me, but I realize at some point I may have to do it. And at that point, I'll probably take a fresh look at all platforms out there.

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  #15 (permalink)
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Christchurch, New Zealand
 
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mattz View Post
I do not consider you an average user, and to be honest, this is what I have found amongst TS users from my observations. Some like you have evolved great skills in developing automated strategies.

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

TS always seemed like it was aimed more towards the sophisticated user, so your observations are probably spot on. I'd also assume that alot of the TS users are the early adopters who have been around for the longest, and if they've been around for the longest( they've survived) then they're more likely to be from that percentage of traders who actually make money. Where as your typical NT/ retail user doesn't fit that profile.

"Free markets work because they allow people to be lucky, thanks to aggressive trial and error, not by giving rewards or incentives for skill. The strategy is, then, to tinker as much as possible and try to collect as many Black Swan opportunities as you can"
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  #16 (permalink)
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Neo1 View Post
TS always seemed like it was aimed more towards the sophisticated user, so your observations are probably spot on. I'd also assume that alot of the TS users are the early adopters who have been around for the longest, and if they've been around for the longest( they've survived) then they're more likely to be from that percentage of traders who actually make money. Where as your typical NT/ retail user doesn't fit that profile.

I agree with this, and I think they have reasonable margins that professionals feel comfortable with. Whereas some NT brokers (prior to NT becoming their own) were in the business of $400 and $500 margins.

It will be interesting in a few years to see how NT does with this model that TS pioneered a decade ago.

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  #17 (permalink)
Elite Member
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what about multicharts?

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#cat=0-7&q=ninjatrader%2C%20tradestation%2C...&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B7


Multicharts seems to not be making much progress

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  #18 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
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on it's own it looks like it's steady to up
https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=multicharts&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B4

Multicharts releases features that many traders looks for, in essence, not just features that would make it look "cool".
Practical stuff.

I think that those who actually trade would find it very organized, stable and intuitive.

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

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  #19 (permalink)
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mattz View Post

But the real focus is on TradingView, with good reason.

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


Personally, I think cloud based/web based is where it's at. I can see TradingView becoming a fully fledged trading platform very easily, and am surprised more platforms haven't moved to that already. The advantages can be huge.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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  #20 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Variety
Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
mattz's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,059 since Sep 2010
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Big Mike View Post
But the real focus is on TradingView, with good reason.

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


Personally, I think cloud based/web based is where it's at. I can see TradingView becoming a fully fledged trading platform very easily, and am surprised more platforms haven't moved to that already. The advantages can be huge.

Mike

100%, no let me rephrase, 200% true!
I feel the exact same way, a trader should be able to open his/her workspace anywhere.
Access his trade from anywhere, and change order from anywhere.
Those who would develop a web based application that is simple will gain many customers.
Juts to add to your sentiment, it should be web based and simple to execute.
No fancy indicators that are meaningless anyway...true traders want execution. period.

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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