Ninja Trader or Sierra Charts - futures io
futures io



Ninja Trader or Sierra Charts


Discussion in Platforms and Indicators

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one josh with 11 posts (22 thanks)
    2. looks_two Guss with 8 posts (1 thanks)
    3. looks_3 NinjaTrader with 6 posts (10 thanks)
    4. looks_4 GaryD with 5 posts (5 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one ejtrader with 7 thanks per post
    2. looks_two Big Mike with 3 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 josh with 2 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 NinjaTrader with 1.7 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 25,624 views
    2. thumb_up 103 thanks given
    3. group 23 followers
    1. forum 75 posts
    2. attach_file 1 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Ninja Trader or Sierra Charts

(login for full post details)
  #1 (permalink)
SteveC55374
Minneapolis
 
 
Posts: 13 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 146 given, 5 received

Hi everyone .. I am considering a change from X_Trader to either Ninjatrader or Sierra Charts .. was looking for some input from people who have used both .. I trade the ES and some CL .. but mostly the ES

Thanks for your Time

Reply With Quote

Journal Challenge April 2021 results:
Competing for $1800 in prizes from Jigsaw
looks_oneMaking a Living with the Microsby sstheo
(619 thanks from 61 posts)
looks_twoSalao's Journalby Salao
(161 thanks from 29 posts)
looks_3Learning to Profit - A journey in algorithms and optionsby Syntax
(115 thanks from 27 posts)
looks_4Deetee’s DAX Trading Journal (time based)by Deetee
(94 thanks from 30 posts)
looks_5Maybe a little bit different journalby Malykubo
(53 thanks from 32 posts)
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
I finally blew up an account
175 thanks
The Crude Dude Oil Trading System
83 thanks
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
65 thanks
The tiyfTradePlanFactory indicator
31 thanks
Building a Crypto Mining Rig
19 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #3 (permalink)
 Fadi 
Luxembourg
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: IB / Kinetick
Trading: ES, CL
 
Fadi's Avatar
 
Posts: 489 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 666 given, 647 received


I use NinjaTrader because I had already bought the lifetime license and thus I am done with software costs. Also, because with NinjaTrader comes the possibility to connect to Kinetick real-time data feed too: the cheapest professional quality and unfiltered data feed available to retail investors.

But if you are OK with a monthly lease for SierraCharts plus another more expensive live data feed subscription (if you don't get a deal from your broker), then I would recommend SierraCharts as it is a more complete package all together, especially to anyone performing and trading on the basis of volume analysis: market & volume profiles, volume ladders, etc...
These features come built in with Sierracharts, while you have to purchase 3rd party plugins for NinaTrader.

I also have the feeling that a programmer would generally prefer the NinjaTrader platform for its universal C# programming language. But that's not necessarily the case for all.

Either way, both are top notch and whichever you end up with will be a perfect choice.
All depends on your requirements as a trader and the main tools you would use; as the instruments themselves are not really the binding parameters (as long as you remain in equities, forex or futures of course).

Successful people will do what unsuccessful people won't or can't do!
Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Fadi for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #4 (permalink)
 Arkiteq 
Portland, OR
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: Bitcoin
 
Posts: 57 since May 2013
Thanks: 30 given, 42 received

Ninja has a vibrant community of users enriching the platform, primarily based in this forum. Sierra is constantly being developed with updates being pushed every few days.

I find Sierra to offer a well rounded suite of features, that work efficiently and without issue. You can achieve the same features and then some with user programmed indicators in Ninja, but there will be a good amount of tweaking and troubleshooting in your future, and arguably a performance loss.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Arkiteq for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #5 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,058 given, 14,553 received


SteveC55374 View Post
Hi everyone .. I am considering a change from X_Trader to either Ninjatrader or Sierra Charts .. was looking for some input from people who have used both .. I trade the ES and some CL .. but mostly the ES

Thanks for your Time

In this thread I outlined why I switched from NT to SC. In the 9+ months since then, SC has made continued improvements, making an even stronger case. SC has as many new releases in 2 months (with more significant changes) as NT has in 2 years, literally, and they still manage to keep it faster and more stable.

SC has 10 levels of depth, a volume profile in the DOM, and order quantity buttons, which will be familiar to you coming from XTrader, none of which NT has. Also, NT has a minimum update time of 100ms, whereas Sierra's is more than 2X lower at 40ms, so if you use anything that is sensitive to quick updates (like prints in the DOM), then Sierra will be much faster because it indeed does update more often (besides the fact that it runs very lean, usually about 4x less memory usage per an equivalent charting setup than NT).

Try each, and see what you like best. Good luck!

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #6 (permalink)
 GaryD 
Orlando, Florida
 
Experience: None
Platform: shoes
Trading: happy
 
GaryD's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,462 since May 2011


SteveC55374 View Post
Hi everyone .. I am considering a change from X_Trader to either Ninjatrader or Sierra Charts .. was looking for some input from people who have used both .. I trade the ES and some CL .. but mostly the ES

Thanks for your Time

I used Ninja for several years but recently switched to Sierra. The two major things that initially drove my decision to do the trial version of SC while still on NT;

1) NT was eating up a lot of system resources. I don't trade on the latest model computer, only running 4MB memory, and just to run NT in a high volume time could take 300k. When my system bottlenecked, for whatever reason, I noticed some serious data lag. I had been told that SC ran leaner.

2) I had wanted to get into the study of market profile. NT has options available, but from 3rd party vendors. I did download a trial of Finalgo's version and had no complaints, but with SC it comes built in. So after the Finalgo trial was over I did the free tiral of Sierra.


Initially, I found Ninja to be much easier to figure out, but I found to be less customizable. Sierra offers customization of nearly everything, but I felt was more difficult right "out of the box".


Once my SC trial ran out I decided to purchase a month, and by the time that was over I had been won over to Sierra Charts. Where NT would take 250-300k, SC uses 100-125k. I now have everything set up to my liking, and have even customized some things I never even thought of before. I have no data lag anymore.

I still have time left on my NT service, my license was expiring right as I was doing the free trial of Sierra, so I extended for 3 more months. But, not only have I not opened it once since I made the decision to purchase SC, but I have uninstalled it on both of my computers. I did not dislike NT, and the list of indicators seems to go on forever due to the many contributions from other traders, but Sierra has everything I am looking for... Except a hat. I have a Ninja Trader hat that I got at a trader event in Las Vegas and now wish I had one that said Sierra Charts. But, I am well-versed in Photoshop and if it bothers me enough can have one made I guess.

I am nearly sure NT offers a free trial as well. Do one platform each week, if you need another week they will probably give it if you ask nicely. Platforms are kind of like cars, you have to test drive them and see how it fits you. Good luck.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #7 (permalink)
 GaryD 
Orlando, Florida
 
Experience: None
Platform: shoes
Trading: happy
 
GaryD's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,462 since May 2011


Fadi View Post
But if you are OK with a monthly lease for SierraCharts plus another more expensive live data feed subscription (if you don't get a deal from your broker), then I would recommend SierraCharts as it is a more complete package all together, especially to anyone performing and trading on the basis of volume analysis: market & volume profiles, volume ladders, etc...


FYI - Sierra Charts costs me less than Ninja Trader did. I never purchased the lifetime license, so that is a part of it. But Mirus is my broker, and both NT and SC will use Zen-Fire at no additional cost, so paying for more expensive data is an option but not a requirement.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #8 (permalink)
 Fadi 
Luxembourg
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: IB / Kinetick
Trading: ES, CL
 
Fadi's Avatar
 
Posts: 489 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 666 given, 647 received


GaryD View Post
FYI - Sierra Charts costs me less than Ninja Trader did. I never purchased the lifetime license, so that is a part of it. But Mirus is my broker, and both NT and SC will use Zen-Fire at no additional cost, so paying for more expensive data is an option but not a requirement.

Sure that's why I had put between parentheses: "if you don't get a deal from your broker"

NinjaTrader is $50 per month on a leasing plan if you buy annually, plus a Kinetick basic subscription in order to trade ES and CL is $50 per month for a total of $100 per month (assuming CME exchange waiver program)

SierraChart lease (the package that is worth using anyway) is $45 per month, plus a DTN IQFeed for example in order to trade ES and CL is minimum $88 per month for a total of $133 per month (assuming CME exchange waiver program)

Either way, I don't like infinite recurring running costs - paying a monthly fee forever... yuk!
I personally prefer to pay once, amortise that cost over a given period of time, and then get done with it.

The lifetime license for Ninjatrader is $995 or the equivalent of 20 months of lease. In less than two years you are good!
If you get a deal from your broker for data, that's perfect, and SierraChart will be cheaper for the first 20 months only... With a lifetime license you would be going 100% free of charges after 20 months of use - both platform and data (since it is coming from your broker for free).

If Sierra is to offer a possibility to buy a lifetime license at a future stage, and they are still leading by then, trust me I would switch in a heartbeat.
But for now, this is a deal breaker for me, surely a smart way for them to assure a steady income, but not for me.

Cheers bro
Fadi

Successful people will do what unsuccessful people won't or can't do!
Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Fadi for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #9 (permalink)
 Jolew 
San Jose, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: IB
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 113 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 54 given, 95 received

Keep in mind that SC is only $35.10 per month if you pay for 12 months at a time. Doesn't really change your conclusion, but I don't know why someone would pay $45 unless they were still trying it out.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Jolew for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #10 (permalink)
 Fadi 
Luxembourg
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: IB / Kinetick
Trading: ES, CL
 
Fadi's Avatar
 
Posts: 489 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 666 given, 647 received



Jolew View Post
Keep in mind that SC is only $35.10 per month if you pay for 12 months at a time. Doesn't really change your conclusion, but I don't know why someone would pay $45 unless they were still trying it out.

Ah yes sure
Just picked up the first obvious price that appeared on their website... Sorry.

Successful people will do what unsuccessful people won't or can't do!
Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #11 (permalink)
 vegasfoster 
las vegas
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Velocity/IB
Trading: 6E
 
Posts: 1,147 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 304 given, 839 received

FYI, if package 3 is sufficient, then you can get that free through velocity, like me . As a long-term user of both platforms, I can say that SC puts NT to shame in almost every respect except a large programmer base and backtesting optimization, both of which SC lacks. If you heavily rely on either, then NT may be the way to go, otherwise SC is the obvious choice. NT8 could change things, but honestly I didn't see anything in the NT8 webinar that convinced me of that.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to vegasfoster for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #12 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,058 given, 14,553 received


vegasfoster View Post
FYI, if package 3 is sufficient, then you can get that free through velocity, like me . As a long-term user of both platforms, I can say that SC puts NT to shame in almost every respect except a large programmer base and backtesting optimization, both of which SC lacks. If you heavily rely on either, then NT may be the way to go, otherwise SC is the obvious choice. NT8 could change things, but honestly I didn't see anything in the NT8 webinar that convinced me of that.

The only issue with paying through a broker like Velocity (and getting it free) is that you do not get some direct access features. I think that getting $TICK is one example--I get this, advance/decline, and many CFD contracts that mirror cash indexes of S&P, DJIA, Nasdaq, Nikkei, Hang Seng, Dax, Stoxx, etc., free through SC. I do not think this is possible without a direct access account, so it may be a consideration for someone looking into this option.

You bring up some good points--though I found it very easy to port NT code to SC code if there is an indicator that really needs to be coded!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #13 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,058 given, 14,553 received


Fadi View Post
Either way, I don't like infinite recurring running costs - paying a monthly fee forever... yuk!
I personally prefer to pay once, amortise that cost over a given period of time, and then get done with it.

If Sierra is to offer a possibility to buy a lifetime license at a future stage, and they are still leading by then, trust me I would switch in a heartbeat.
But for now, this is a deal breaker for me, surely a smart way for them to assure a steady income, but not for me.

Ditto -- if SC ever offers a lifetime license (not sure why they would though), I will get it in a heartbeat. But even with owning a lifetime license and the fact that I also hate recurring costs, SC is too much better for me to worry about the $40 a month or so.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #14 (permalink)
 Fadi 
Luxembourg
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: IB / Kinetick
Trading: ES, CL
 
Fadi's Avatar
 
Posts: 489 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 666 given, 647 received


josh View Post
Ditto -- if SC ever offers a lifetime license (not sure why they would though), I will get it in a heartbeat. But even with owning a lifetime license and the fact that I also hate recurring costs, SC is too much better for me to worry about the $40 a month or so.

If only it were just $40 per month...
The problem is that I will have to pay for a DTN IQFeed subscription too, and that's more than $200 per month if I were to subscribe to all the exchanges that I use Kinetick is much cheaper.

This amount of $2,400+ per year is what I pay for my accountant to issue all the certificates and do the paper work with the gov. Why double expenses when you can avoid?

Successful people will do what unsuccessful people won't or can't do!
Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Fadi for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #15 (permalink)
 Jolew 
San Jose, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: IB
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 113 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 54 given, 95 received


Fadi View Post
The problem is that I will have to pay for a DTN IQFeed subscription too, and that's more than $200 per month if I were to subscribe to all the exchanges that I use Kinetick is much cheaper.

Just curious how you can save $200 / month with Kinetick. I was not aware that there was that much difference and looking at the fees of each, I can't figure it out.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #16 (permalink)
 Fadi 
Luxembourg
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: IB / Kinetick
Trading: ES, CL
 
Fadi's Avatar
 
Posts: 489 since Apr 2012
Thanks: 666 given, 647 received


Jolew View Post
Just curious how you can save $200 / month with Kinetick. I was not aware that there was that much difference and looking at the fees of each, I can't figure it out.

Funny how this thread turned to be all about me and my costs
I am sorry for Steve who initiated this... I hope this will help him nonetheless in his choice.

But wait a second, where and when did I say that I will save $200 respect to Kinetick?
Or was it implicitly understood that way because I previously mentioned Kinetick somewhere?
Sorry for the confusion...

Let me iterate and summarize all my comment again in here:

I was just saying that going with SierraChart for me and with my current broker at least; it won't be $40 per month but way higher, more than $200 per month in fact because I will have to subscribe to another data provider (I am taking DTN IQFeed as an example since it is famous in here on futures.io (formerly BMT) and considered among the best).

I am saying this honestly to simply warn that it is not only about platform monthly costs; but one has to look at the entire setup and take into consideration the data fee as well. OF course please do not skim on the platform's features for the sake of saving on costs.

but since we are only discussing costs now, it is definitely fair to compare NT7 at 50$ per month versus SC at 35.10$ per month; I totally agree, but then you have to see in your particular case how much more would it cost you to trade in total.

1. if you get a quality data feed from your broker for free, then yes SC will be cheaper than NT7 and definitely for the first two years when you buy the lifetimes license for 995$ on NT.
After that, it will be just $0 for NT7 and $35.10 per month for SC. Bingo that cost is peanut as josh said, and one wouldn't mind that little fee for a quality software of course.

2. if you don't get a quality data feed from your broker for free (my case), then one has to incorporate that extra cost in the calculation, and believe it or not Kinetick is the cheapest you can find on the market nowadays.

My Personal costs if I were to select DTN IQFeed with Sierra would be:
1. platform lease $35.10
2. Basic Service $68
3. RT US Futures $20
4. Level 2 $20
5. CME exchanges $0
6. ICE US $90
7. NASDAQ $6
8. NYSE $6
TOTAL = $245.10 per month

My Personal costs if i were to select Kinetick with NT7 would be:
1. Platform lease $0 after 20 months of use
2. Basic Service $50
3. RT US Futures $0
4. Level 2 $20
5. CME exchanges $0
6. ICEUS $75 (but through IB)
7. NASDAQ $6
8. NYSE $6
TOTAL = $157.00 per month


SAVING = $88.10 per month or $1,057.20 per year

Hope that clears it all now

Cheers
Fadi


PS: reading again my previous comments, I guess this is what created the confusion


Fadi View Post
This amount of $2,400+ per year is what I pay for my accountant to issue all the certificates and do the paper work with the gov. Why double expenses when you can avoid?

I perhaps expressed myself wrongly, sorry I didn't mean that it would be additional $2400+ than current cost.

Successful people will do what unsuccessful people won't or can't do!
Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Fadi for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #17 (permalink)
 Nicolas11 
near Paris, France
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: -
Trading: -
 
Nicolas11's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,071 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 2,232 given, 1,755 received

Hi,


Fadi View Post
Either way, I don't like infinite recurring running costs - paying a monthly fee forever... yuk!
I personally prefer to pay once, amortise that cost over a given period of time, and then get done with it.

The lifetime license for Ninjatrader is $995 or the equivalent of 20 months of lease. In less than two years you are good!
If you get a deal from your broker for data, that's perfect, and SierraChart will be cheaper for the first 20 months only... With a lifetime license you would be going 100% free of charges after 20 months of use - both platform and data (since it is coming from your broker for free).

One of the drawbacks of the lifetime license is that you are not sure that the product will continue to meet your needs in the future, either because your needs will change, or because the product would have become out-of-date.

In my personal case, I have purchased a lifetime licence of (normal) MultiCharts. In retrospect, I somehow regret it, because my needs have changed (I switched to SC), and this lifetime license does not allow me benefiting from more advanced MC.net

Just my opinion.

Nicolas

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #18 (permalink)
 vegasfoster 
las vegas
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Velocity/IB
Trading: 6E
 
Posts: 1,147 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 304 given, 839 received


josh View Post
The only issue with paying through a broker like Velocity (and getting it free) is that you do not get some direct access features. I think that getting $TICK is one example--I get this, advance/decline, and many CFD contracts that mirror cash indexes of S&P, DJIA, Nasdaq, Nikkei, Hang Seng, Dax, Stoxx, etc., free through SC. I do not think this is possible without a direct access account, so it may be a consideration for someone looking into this option.

You bring up some good points--though I found it very easy to port NT code to SC code if there is an indicator that really needs to be coded!

I get the market stats and I'm pretty sure which contracts you can access is a function of the broker, and not SC. As far as I know the Velocity version is not limited in any regard. I did read where they stated that they are giving preference to direct accounts in the support forum though, which is a consideration if your require a lot of support. That said, they have still always answered my non-programming questions. I would recommend if you use Velocity, no reason not to try the free version, and if you find it's not sufficient for any reason, then start paying. It's dirt cheap any way you look at it.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #19 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,058 given, 14,553 received


vegasfoster View Post
I get the market stats and I'm pretty sure which contracts you can access is a function of the broker, and not SC. As far as I know the Velocity version is not limited in any regard. I did read where they stated that they are giving preference to direct accounts in the support forum though, which is a consideration if your require a lot of support. That said, they have still always answered my non-programming questions. I would recommend if you use Velocity, no reason not to try the free version, and if you find it's not sufficient for any reason, then start paying. It's dirt cheap any way you look at it.

It must have been something else then... When I was paying indirectly through Velocity, there were a couple of data streams I could not get, but I can't remember what they were. Either way, there are differences and a potential SC customer should consider whether paying through a broker will give him what he needs.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #20 (permalink)
 Silvester17 
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT 8, TOS
Trading: ES
 
Silvester17's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,587 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 5,079 given, 11,390 received


SteveC55374 View Post
Hi everyone .. I am considering a change from X_Trader to either Ninjatrader or Sierra Charts .. was looking for some input from people who have used both .. I trade the ES and some CL .. but mostly the ES

Thanks for your Time

@SteveC55374,

actually I don't qualify for your request since I never used sierra charts. but if you don't mind here are some more thoughts. just trying to keep it real after all those hype posts for sierra.

- I don't know a single feature I would like to have from sierra that I can't have with nt7. I admit most are build-in with sierra and 3rd party for nt7. but on the other hand, after seeing many sierra charts, I believe the nt7 custom indicators are more accurate. even though sierra is doing a good job copying nt-indicators (like @Fat Tails vwap) and convert those to sierra.

- also many users are complaining about crashes and who knows what issues with nt7. here I'm totally convinced it's not a nt but a user problem. a good example are badly coded indicators. I use and push nt7 a lot, but don't have any problems at all.

- here are some stats from the bmt community. looking at member and programmer of the year, 4 out of 5 are nt users. trading platform of the year is nt. I was surprised to see sierra in 3rd place, didn't think they would make it in the top 10.



of course in the end it's your call. but I would definitely test both platforms.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Silvester17 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #21 (permalink)
 aligator 
Las Vegas, NV
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Abacus, Slide Rule, HP-65, Metastock, TOS, NT
Trading: Futures
 
aligator's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,424 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 1,057 given, 5,841 received


Silvester17 View Post
here I'm totally convinced it's not a nt but a user problem. a good example are badly coded indicators. I use and push nt7 a lot, but don't have any problems at all.

I use and love NT for all its great flexibilities. But I must disagree that frequent issues with freezing is because of badly coded indicators alone. This freezing issue quite often happens during the Sundays, Monday market open, and contract rollover for certain instruments such as CL. It is very frustrating.

My solution to freezing issue has been to close and start NT with a blank Workspace (set as Default1). Then I start the day with the blank workspace, connect to ZenFire, and download a couple of days of tick data for the instruments that I trade to fill the gaps. Then I open my other trading and analysis workspaces. This method seems to work for me and avoids the issue, but should not be necessary.

If there are many complaints about freezing issues, then perhaps there is something to look into.

Cheers!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to aligator for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #22 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,058 given, 14,553 received


Silvester17 View Post
since I never used sierra charts

Enough said. I have not heard of ONE Sierra user who has used it for any period of time and switched to NT. Yet, most all SC users have used NT extensively at some point, found it to be lacking in most every respect, and switched, based on an actual comparison between the two. NT users are usually so by default, because it's the only thing they've tried, because it's totally free for life if you don't trade with it. SC users are usually so because they have made a real comparison, and made a logical choice.


Silvester17 View Post
- I don't know a single feature I would like to have from sierra that I can't have with nt7.

I have listed, and can list again if you like, the many ways that SC is superior, both on a performance basis and on a feature basis. However, why don't we approach it from a different perspective. Instead of listing the ways that NT is simply as good as SC in comparison, how about listing one or two ways that NT is actually better than SC? In other words, what would a SC users be able to say, "man, I wish SC had this feature that NT has..." I'm sure there are some, I just can't think of any.


Silvester17 View Post
after seeing many sierra charts, I believe the nt7 custom indicators are more accurate.

Example?


Silvester17 View Post
- here are some stats from the bmt community. looking at member and programmer of the year, 4 out of 5 are nt users. trading platform of the year is nt. I was surprised to see sierra in 3rd place, didn't think they would make it in the top 10.

So on a public forum where 90% are sim trading, you think it's a plus that the platform of choice for sim-only traders, NT, is something to brag about? Nothing wrong with sim trading, at all. But NT is well-established because it's FREE, and thus many who aren't willing to spend a penny on their platform and who are on a never-ending indicator grail quest are drawn to it and all the freebie code available. So, it is not surprising that it also attracts many programmers (and some very good ones, like Fat Tails, gomi, etc.). But in the end, a popularity contest where one is free for life and another is not, is not exactly comparing apples to apples.

I should make one thing very clear: I have no gripe with NT users (I used to be one after all), and think it's great if an NT users loves his or her software, if it does the job. My issue is not with users who have chosen their software and are happy with it. However, I am free to speak my opinion and in my belief, people who use NT without exploring other options are making a regrettable decision, and so I am only encouraging people to explore their options. There are some great pieces of trading software out there that people simply never try, and get frustrated because they just do not know their options, and I think that is a shame.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #23 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,058 given, 14,553 received

Let me give you prime example #1 why I switched from NinjaTrader, aside from wanting built-in volume profiling tools.

I posted this in 27 months ago:
Rectangle "disappears" when scrolling - NinjaTrader Support Forum

This was posted last month: Drawn obstacles disappear in lower timeframe - NinjaTrader Support Forum
And the month before: Disappearing rectangles - NinjaTrader Support Forum
And a few months before: Drawing Rectangle question - NinjaTrader Support Forum


So, in a program designed to display accurate charts first and foremost, and then draw on those charts using lines and shapes, they do not make it a priority over a multi-year span of time to fix a major problem like this, which they admit is a problem, which users have requested numerous times to fix.

When someone requests a logical new feature like an extending rectangle tool (which SC has by the way), the standard response is:
"I will forward your feature request to development for future consideration."
(see Please add an Extending Rectangle drawing tool - NinjaTrader Support Forum)

What this means, if the past is any indicator, is: "I will be happy to hold out the carrot within reach such that you are convinced the feature or bug fix might get implemented; however, we have no real intention of adding anything new over the next couple of years to our program, but please keep using it for free so that we can make money from our trading partners!"

----------
Take another example. 10 levels of depth in the DOM. Pretty standard for DOMs. In NT it's 5, and always has been.

Over FOUR years ago this request was made, and was added to the list of futures considerations:
10 deep in ZB - NinjaTrader Support Forum

A year later this request was made again:
depth size in DOM - NinjaTrader Support Forum

And again: superdom - 5 bids & 5 asks, yet in IB there is 10 bids & 10 asks - NinjaTrader Support Forum
(and again) Cumulative Depth - NinjaTrader Support Forum
(and again) Why does NT only display 5 levels in the DOM - NinjaTrader Support Forum
(and again) Super DOM and 10 levels of Bid/Ask prices - NinjaTrader Support Forum

Two years ago, it was given a brand new support ID (as if that means anything):
DOM Improvements - NinjaTrader Support Forum


Their support is polite, and sometimes helpful, but often ineffective. It's not their fault; they answer to the people in charge. If NT were a rock solid program that never crashed, was uber-efficient and lean and mean, then I can understand never implementing anything new, and only releasing a major release every 3 years with only incremental bug fixes every quarter. But it's none of those things.

NT will retain many users because of its subscription-free license offer, and because it's free to hook new traders before they discover what else is out there, and it will retain those who have enough time/money/ego invested in it who will never switch. But many people seem to be starting to realize that it's not all it's cracked up to be. And here's the kicker: I would switch back to NT if it got better. I have no interest invested in SC, except my monthly fee. The moment that NT becomes better than SC, I will use my lifetime license and become a regular user again. All I want is the best software; at the moment SC is light-years ahead of NT, but that could conceivably change, albeit with maybe a change in philosophies and ownership.

After I read the above, I felt a little bad, like maybe I'm "NT-bashing," but then I thought back and realized that they don't care enough about their users to fix simple things, so why should I think twice before laying out the paper trail showing how they operate?

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #24 (permalink)
 timefreedom 
Indianapolis, IN USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader TOS Custom
Broker: Several
Trading: ES CL ZB
 
Posts: 374 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 225 given, 380 received


SteveC55374 View Post
Hi everyone .. I am considering a change from X_Trader to either Ninjatrader or Sierra Charts .. was looking for some input from people who have used both .. I trade the ES and some CL .. but mostly the ES

Thanks for your Time

Hi Steve,
NinjaTrader is a superior trading platform. The platform will not make your trading decisions for you - other than that, it does just about everything else. You asked for input and here's mine: don't waste your time with Sierra. Good luck.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to timefreedom for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #25 (permalink)
 Profiler 
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC, S5T
Trading: Es
 
Posts: 617 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 321 given, 590 received


SteveC55374 View Post
Hi everyone .. I am considering a change from X_Trader to either Ninjatrader or Sierra Charts .. was looking for some input from people who have used both .. I trade the ES and some CL .. but mostly the ES

Thanks for your Time

I never used ninja so I can't speak about it but I do use SC (though not for execution) and am happy with it. I used TT for over 9 years as a serious tick chasing scalper so accuracy was extremely important and it didnt disappoint, not sure where some people are coming from saying it isnt. that being said, I used to pay $1200 a month for X trader pro and my current front end with my broker is free and 100% accurate and as functional as needed so I think TT's day is over for manual point and clickers and you are right to seek an alternative. Seems you have people on both sides of the argument here so my suggestion is to arrange a free trial for both and see what you like better!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Profiler for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #26 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja
Trading: NQ
 
cory's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,044 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 857 given, 7,916 received


josh View Post
...
When someone requests a logical new feature like an extending rectangle tool (which SC has by the way), the standard response is:
"I will forward your feature request to development for future consideration."
(see Please add an Extending Rectangle drawing tool - NinjaTrader Support Forum)
...

agree, extending rectangle tool is an awesome feature to have.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to cory for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #27 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,068 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,534 given, 98,493 received


josh View Post
So on a public forum where 90% are sim trading

Multiple data points on this over the years suggest on futures.io (formerly BMT) less than 20% are on sim and not trading cash.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #28 (permalink)
 Silvester17 
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT 8, TOS
Trading: ES
 
Silvester17's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,587 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 5,079 given, 11,390 received


aligator View Post
I use and love NT for all its great flexibilities. But I must disagree that frequent issues with freezing is because of badly coded indicators alone. This freezing issue quite often happens during the Sundays, Monday market open, and contract rollover for certain instruments such as CL. It is very frustrating.

My solution to freezing issue has been to close and start NT with a blank Workspace (set as Default1). Then I start the day with the blank workspace, connect to ZenFire, and download a couple of days of tick data for the instruments that I trade to fill the gaps. Then I open my other trading and analysis workspaces. This method seems to work for me and avoids the issue, but should not be necessary.

If there are many complaints about freezing issues, then perhaps there is something to look into.

Cheers!

@aligator,

sorry to hear that. but again I don't experience this freezing issue either. maybe @NinjaTrader has an explanation or a solution.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Silvester17 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #29 (permalink)
 omaha786 
San Diego, California
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: IB, OEC, Optimus, DDT
Trading: ES, ZN
 
Posts: 221 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 512 given, 158 received


Fadi View Post
Funny how this thread turned to be all about me and my costs
I am sorry for Steve who initiated this... I hope this will help him nonetheless in his choice.

But wait a second, where and when did I say that I will save $200 respect to Kinetick?
Or was it implicitly understood that way because I previously mentioned Kinetick somewhere?
Sorry for the confusion...

Let me iterate and summarize all my comment again in here:

I was just saying that going with SierraChart for me and with my current broker at least; it won't be $40 per month but way higher, more than $200 per month in fact because I will have to subscribe to another data provider (I am taking DTN IQFeed as an example since it is famous in here on futures.io (formerly BMT) and considered among the best).

I am saying this honestly to simply warn that it is not only about platform monthly costs; but one has to look at the entire setup and take into consideration the data fee as well. OF course please do not skim on the platform's features for the sake of saving on costs.

but since we are only discussing costs now, it is definitely fair to compare NT7 at 50$ per month versus SC at 35.10$ per month; I totally agree, but then you have to see in your particular case how much more would it cost you to trade in total.

1. if you get a quality data feed from your broker for free, then yes SC will be cheaper than NT7 and definitely for the first two years when you buy the lifetimes license for 995$ on NT.
After that, it will be just $0 for NT7 and $35.10 per month for SC. Bingo that cost is peanut as josh said, and one wouldn't mind that little fee for a quality software of course.

2. if you don't get a quality data feed from your broker for free (my case), then one has to incorporate that extra cost in the calculation, and believe it or not Kinetick is the cheapest you can find on the market nowadays.

My Personal costs if I were to select DTN IQFeed with Sierra would be:
1. platform lease $35.10
2. Basic Service $68
3. RT US Futures $20
4. Level 2 $20
5. CME exchanges $0
6. ICE US $90
7. NASDAQ $6
8. NYSE $6
TOTAL = $245.10 per month

My Personal costs if i were to select Kinetick with NT7 would be:
1. Platform lease $0 after 20 months of use
2. Basic Service $50
3. RT US Futures $0
4. Level 2 $20
5. CME exchanges $0
6. ICEUS $75 (but through IB)
7. NASDAQ $6
8. NYSE $6
TOTAL = $157.00 per month


SAVING = $88.10 per month or $1,057.20 per year

Hope that clears it all now

Cheers
Fadi


PS: reading again my previous comments, I guess this is what created the confusion



I perhaps expressed myself wrongly, sorry I didn't mean that it would be additional $2400+ than current cost.

Regarding the cost, I heard you have to pay some extra fees on per trade basis with NT. Also, SC allows you to trade through multiple brokers. So the saving is less for NT if you have multiple brokers. (BTW, SC has no problem to trade through 4-5 brokers at the same time since it uses separate instance for each broker. I am not even sure NT is technically able to do that, anyone ever tried?)

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #30 (permalink)
 aligator 
Las Vegas, NV
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Abacus, Slide Rule, HP-65, Metastock, TOS, NT
Trading: Futures
 
aligator's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,424 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 1,057 given, 5,841 received


josh View Post
However, I am free to speak my opinion and in my belief, people who use NT without exploring other options are making a regrettable decision, and so I am only encouraging people to explore their options. There are some great pieces of trading software out there that people simply never try, and get frustrated because they just do not know their options, and I think that is a shame.

It is great to be able to express one's opinion based on personal experience only. But, with all due respect, to state that it is a shame other users not knowing their options and are making regrettable decisions is a bit presumptuous.

One's opinion based on one's personal experience carries more weight than based on one's perception of other people experiences. Lots of real traders here use NT for reasons unknown to public and they seem to be happy and making money too.

Cheers!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to aligator for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #31 (permalink)
 trendisyourfriend 
Legendary Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,024 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,692 given, 5,208 received

Can we use Sierra on two platforms (Laptop+Desktop) simultaneously? With Ninja you need to buy another license. Is it the same with Sierra?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #32 (permalink)
 omaha786 
San Diego, California
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: IB, OEC, Optimus, DDT
Trading: ES, ZN
 
Posts: 221 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 512 given, 158 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
Can we use Sierra on two platforms (Laptop+Desktop) simultaneously? With Ninja you need to buy another license. Is it the same with Sierra?

Yes, you can.

https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=doc/PurchaseInformation.php

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to omaha786 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #33 (permalink)
 NinjaTrader  NinjaTrader is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: NinjaTrader
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: NinjaTrader Webinars
Elite offer: Click here
 
 
NinjaTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,582 since May 2010
Thanks: 186 given, 2,464 received


omaha786 View Post
Regarding the cost, I heard you have to pay some extra fees on per trade basis with NT. )

There is a trade fee if you optionally use our Static version of our SuperDOM which is licensed from Trading Technologies otherwise, you don't pay an additional fee. Most of our users don't choose this option.


@aligator,
As for freezing. There is a difference between application lock up or stale quotes. Either way, my support team is happy to analyze your particular scenario. Please contact our support team NinjaTrader stock, futures and forex charting software and online trading platform. Support..

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to NinjaTrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #34 (permalink)
 ejtrader 
Portland, OR
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 269 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 327 given, 180 received

Apologize for the Lengthy Post:

Having used majority of the platforms one way or other - thought of providing some input in this regard - For specific features that I have explored - not necessarily main features.

Ability to control the sequence of data processing ( 5 minute first and then 1 minute data second ): ( This was the MOST important feature for me)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ninja:
If I have 1 minute as primary and 5 minute as secondary series - for the same tick of data - I can't make the calculated data from 5 minute made available to 1 minute data.



SC(Winner): Precedence can be controlled Very nicely. Don't know how many would actually use this feature - but hats off to SC team to think through and implement a solution for this. Even in MC - there is a "recalculate" feature and indirectly this can be done but no work-arounds in Ninja.

Historical vs realtime bar timestamp
----------------------------------------
Ninja - If you take a 5 minute bar - the bar timestamp is CLOSE time stamp and not OPEN timestamp and varies based on whether it's a minute based data or tick based data. One need to be careful about building indicators/systems etc to distiguish Historical vs realtime - I find it really difficult to deal with this.

SC(Winner) - Bar timestamp is always OPEN timestamp and doesn't change irrespective of the bar type used - makes it so meaningful to have it this way ( personally like it this way )

GDI objects control
-------------------------
Ninja(winner) - This is very flexible to control the GDI objects as the default structure exposed to Custom Plot data.

SC - They have recently introduced GDI based draw methods - but can't use SC structure in the draw objects. Using work arounds is a bit cumbersome and some stuff that I could have done in Ninja - still finding it a bit difficult to do in SC. this might change if SC structure is exposed to GDI function.

UpTick/DownTick/Up Volume/Down Volume:
-------------------------------------------
Ninja - With NT 7 - it's not possible to have these values at present natively and likely to change with NT 8 - but not sure to what extent. (GOMI built excellent extentins to overcome this limitation - would prefer to have this natively)
SC(winner) - In current state - this has built-in way to extract the data for individual need and there is no equal at this time

General Replay capabilities ( while live feed is connected ):
--------------------------------------------------------
Ninja - One can't have replay of the existing chart while connected to live feed ( based on NT8 feedback looks like this might be possible)
SC(Winner) - Have this ability and like this aspect to quickly observe/repeat the the last price action very quickly if needed.

Replay including level 2:
-------------------------
Ninja(Winner) - With stored level 2 information and availability of this data during market replay is really a nice thing to have

SC - There is no such feature and is not likely to happen in the future as well.

Fill Model:
------------
NT(Winner) - Though most of the users might not agree - NT has provided a way to get a specific SIM fill - "Enforce Partial Fills" checked and "Enfore Immediate Fills" unchecked. Ideally there should have been an option to pick - the number of contracts traded before a trade is filled.

SC - The current mode of Fill is good ( where bid to cross/touch for a short fill and ask need to cross/touch for a long fill) - however there should have been an option to provide an input - like selecting the number of contracts filled before a fill can happen rather than the current rigid way of simulating a fill. It has it's own advantages but don't like this "forced" way of using it personally.

Accomodating Customer's feature requests:
-----------------------------------------
NT - Though few requests are genuine and potentially can be implemented with not much major effort - Haven't seen this approach from NT development team.

SC(Winner) - Ask them anything - if it is a reasonable request - they would implement very very quickly. I like this aspect the most. They do push back on certain requests - if implementation is a bit difficult - but they would revisit this aspect when they find some time to think over this.

Bottom Line:
------------
Each platform would have it's own merits and one need to pick the one close to their needs. Actually started with Ninja and tried my best to stick with it - but as the MOST Important feature I was looking for - First point - Sequence of tick processing - I couldn't get done in Ninja along with lack of upTicks/DownTicks - Made me look at Sierra and so far very happy with this choice.

PS: Didn't include other platforms like MC/NeoTicker etc into this mix as the question is mainly about Ninja or Sierra. Still use Ninja occassionally when level 2 replay is needed. With NT 8 - might use it little more but as Ninja team made it's stance clear about NOT addressing the question I have raised about data series processing logic - it's a bummer for me..

Thanks

Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to ejtrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #35 (permalink)
 aligator 
Las Vegas, NV
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Abacus, Slide Rule, HP-65, Metastock, TOS, NT
Trading: Futures
 
aligator's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,424 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 1,057 given, 5,841 received


NinjaTrader View Post

@aligator,
As for freezing. There is a difference between application lock up or stale quotes. Either way, my support team is happy to analyze your particular scenario. Please contact our support team NinjaTrader stock, futures and forex charting software and online trading platform. Support..

Thanks Ninjatrader,

I don't know what stale data or lock up are. All I see on loading 5 days of 800 tick chart is that it goes into an un-ending spinning.

I have already searched NT Forum for freezing issues (this is not the first time) There are several threads. Basically the Support concludes the resolution with:

Send us your trace and log files, your system information, your version, data source, you may be loading too many days of data, etc. etc, and finally at the end after all fails, they advise to delete -Worrkspces.XML file and build your workspace again. I have not found one example that Support was able to pinpoint what the freezing issue was.

Funny that this happens only for certain instruments such as CL, NQ, TF, etc. usually on Sundays and Monday open for me.

I have decided for the time being it is less headache for me to simply go to the final solution: to start the day with a blank Workspace, download a couple of days of of tick data, then load other workspaces and everything loads and work fine.

I really don't have to do this, do I ? I am still using version 11 and have not upgraded to 12 yet, fearing any unseen issues that can keep me down and out of rhythm for the week.

Still, I find NT a decent software serving my needs after over 37 years of using almost anything out there from the first DOS version of Metastock, SuperCharts, etc. to just about any of the current breeds.

Cheers!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to aligator for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #36 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,058 given, 14,553 received


aligator View Post
It is great to be able to express one's opinion based on personal experience only. But, with all due respect, to state that it is a shame other users not knowing their options and are making regrettable decisions is a bit presumptuous.

One's opinion based on one's personal experience carries more weight than based on one's perception of other people experiences. Lots of real traders here use NT for reasons unknown to public and they seem to be happy and making money too.

Cheers!

Let me rephrase aligator -- I think it would be regrettable for someone to only ever try one or two software packages, and not try anything else, regardless of the particular software. Said another way, there are some fine options out there, so it would be a shame IMO to not explore several options.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #37 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,058 given, 14,553 received


aligator View Post
Basically the Support concludes the resolution with:

Send us your trace and log files, your system information, your version, data source, you may be loading too many days of data, etc. etc, and finally at the end after all fails, they advise to delete -Worrkspces.XML file and build your workspace again. I have not found one example that Support was able to pinpoint what the freezing issue was.

This is NT support in a nutshell. They are very polite people, but at the end of the day, it's easier to just tell the customer to delete the workspaces.xml file, and start all over. I can not count how many times I had to delete workspaces.xml. It's sad that this winds up being the support resolution so often.


aligator View Post
I have decided for the time being it is less headache for me to simply go to the final solution: to start the day with a blank Workspace, download a couple of days of of tick data, then load other workspaces and everything loads and work fine.

And again, a very appropriate word for hoops I had to jump through on a daily basis with NT: headache. Instead of focusing on trading, you have to do a blank workspace, download data, and then load your workspaces. These are unnecessary distractions. Quite often NT support's answer to issues was to be sure I restarted the program every night. Well, that was not a viable option, because I was recording Gom data, and it shouldn't have to be--if a software program can't run all week, from Sunday to Friday, without needing to be restarted every day, that speaks to its lack of robustness.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #38 (permalink)
 aligator 
Las Vegas, NV
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Abacus, Slide Rule, HP-65, Metastock, TOS, NT
Trading: Futures
 
aligator's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,424 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 1,057 given, 5,841 received


josh View Post
Let me rephrase aligator -- so it would be a shame IMO to not explore several options.

We simply don't know If people have or have not tried several options. You are just assuming, that is the point.

"Enough said."

Thanks for the dialogue.

Cheers!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #39 (permalink)
 Silvester17 
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT 8, TOS
Trading: ES
 
Silvester17's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,587 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 5,079 given, 11,390 received


josh View Post
Enough said. I have not heard of ONE Sierra user who has used it for any period of time and switched to NT. Yet, most all SC users have used NT extensively at some point, found it to be lacking in most every respect, and switched, based on an actual comparison between the two. NT users are usually so by default, because it's the only thing they've tried, because it's totally free for life if you don't trade with it. SC users are usually so because they have made a real comparison, and made a logical choice.

wow. I had no idea that you know most of all nt and sierra users. congratulations



josh View Post
I have listed, and can list again if you like, the many ways that SC is superior, both on a performance basis and on a feature basis. However, why don't we approach it from a different perspective. Instead of listing the ways that NT is simply as good as SC in comparison, how about listing one or two ways that NT is actually better than SC? In other words, what would a SC users be able to say, "man, I wish SC had this feature that NT has..." I'm sure there are some, I just can't think of any.

here's some good advice. read first and then make a comment. let me rephrase for you again. "I don't see any sierra features I like that I can't have with nt7". with other words, I'm talking about ME. maybe you know any?



josh View Post
Example?

sure. how about your own complaint? VWAP SD bands incorrect - Sierra Chart fyi, in fat tails new version there's a significant improvement to calculate the bands. make sure you send that as well to sierra.



josh View Post
So on a public forum where 90% are sim trading, you think it's a plus that the platform of choice for sim-only traders, NT, is something to brag about? Nothing wrong with sim trading, at all. But NT is well-established because it's FREE, and thus many who aren't willing to spend a penny on their platform and who are on a never-ending indicator grail quest are drawn to it and all the freebie code available. So, it is not surprising that it also attracts many programmers (and some very good ones, like Fat Tails, gomi, etc.). But in the end, a popularity contest where one is free for life and another is not, is not exactly comparing apples to apples.

hmmm. the way you talk about this public forum makes me wonder why you spend so much time here. obviously it doesn't meet your standard. btw I've seen a few brokers that offer sierra for free as well.


josh View Post
I should make one thing very clear: I have no gripe with NT users (I used to be one after all), and think it's great if an NT users loves his or her software, if it does the job. My issue is not with users who have chosen their software and are happy with it. However, I am free to speak my opinion and in my belief, people who use NT without exploring other options are making a regrettable decision, and so I am only encouraging people to explore their options. There are some great pieces of trading software out there that people simply never try, and get frustrated because they just do not know their options, and I think that is a shame.

same here, I don't have any problems with sierra at all. actually it seems pretty good and solid what I hear. just trying to show that nt7 is not as bad as many say. at the end it's everyone's personal choice. for me sierra and nt are both pretty cheap options, but good enough. again depending what you're after. I come from platforms like bloomberg and reuters (instinet) which are a bit different. but for what I do now, I'm perfectly happy with nt7.

feel free to comment, I've said enough and will not reply anymore.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #40 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,068 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,534 given, 98,493 received

Moderator Notice
Moderator Notice



Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #41 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,058 given, 14,553 received


Silvester17 View Post
sure. how about your own complaint? VWAP SD bands incorrect - Sierra Chart fyi, in fat tails new version there's a significant improvement to calculate the bands. make sure you send that as well to sierra.

I contacted Fat Tails and asked his permission to contact Sierra about calculating the SD bands, because I saw his as superior, and he granted me permission to do so. The great thing is that Sierra actually fixed the problem, which is quite in contrast to other experiences I have had with NT, as cited earlier, as they choose to not fix problems in 3+ years time.


Silvester17 View Post
hmmm. the way you talk about this public forum makes me wonder why you spend so much time here. obviously it doesn't meet your standard. btw I've seen a few brokers that offer sierra for free as well.

You are putting words in my mouth, none of which are accurate. I said nothing negative about a forum and mentioned nothing about "standards." futures.io (formerly BMT) is the best forum online IMO, period, and I have said so many times. I will spell out the point yet again: NT is free for sim-only trading, hence, it is used by a lot of people and is popular. So, it should come as no surprise that it ranks as most popular on a public forum poll. futures.io (formerly BMT) users also voted Zen-Fire as the best data feed, ahead of CQG and IQFeed, and Rithmic did not make the list. How that happened I have no idea, but I will certainly not get Zen-Fire instead of Rithmic, just because it came first in a futures.io (formerly BMT) poll.

Some brokers (like Velocity) subsidize and offer package 3 for free, or package 5 at a discount. However, there are limitations in this versus a direct account, which is why I pay for a direct account. So, a broker will pay for it to some degree. But, in Ninja you don't have to have a broker, you can use it for free forever, which explains why so many people are using it.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #42 (permalink)
SteveC55374
Minneapolis
 
 
Posts: 13 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 146 given, 5 received


josh View Post
In this thread I outlined why I switched from NT to SC. In the 9+ months since then, SC has made continued improvements, making an even stronger case. SC has as many new releases in 2 months (with more significant changes) as NT has in 2 years, literally, and they still manage to keep it faster and more stable.

SC has 10 levels of depth, a volume profile in the DOM, and order quantity buttons, which will be familiar to you coming from XTrader, none of which NT has. Also, NT has a minimum update time of 100ms, whereas Sierra's is more than 2X lower at 40ms, so if you use anything that is sensitive to quick updates (like prints in the DOM), then Sierra will be much faster because it indeed does update more often (besides the fact that it runs very lean, usually about 4x less memory usage per an equivalent charting setup than NT).

Try each, and see what you like best. Good luck!

Thanks Josh

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to SteveC55374 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #43 (permalink)
 supermht 
Naperville IL
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: NT broker
Trading: NQ ES 6E GC CL
 
Posts: 958 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,189 given, 659 received

I use NT and I like it, I don't understand people spend so much time to promote SC here, are you guys from SC?

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to supermht for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #44 (permalink)
SteveC55374
Minneapolis
 
 
Posts: 13 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 146 given, 5 received


Silvester17 View Post
@SteveC55374,

actually I don't qualify for your request since I never used sierra charts. but if you don't mind here are some more thoughts. just trying to keep it real after all those hype posts for sierra.

- I don't know a single feature I would like to have from sierra that I can't have with nt7. I admit most are build-in with sierra and 3rd party for nt7. but on the other hand, after seeing many sierra charts, I believe the nt7 custom indicators are more accurate. even though sierra is doing a good job copying nt-indicators (like @Fat Tails vwap) and convert those to sierra.

- also many users are complaining about crashes and who knows what issues with nt7. here I'm totally convinced it's not a nt but a user problem. a good example are badly coded indicators. I use and push nt7 a lot, but don't have any problems at all.

- here are some stats from the bmt community. looking at member and programmer of the year, 4 out of 5 are nt users. trading platform of the year is nt. I was surprised to see sierra in 3rd place, didn't think they would make it in the top 10.



of course in the end it's your call. but I would definitely test both platforms.

Thanks for the stats .. Helping to put things a little more in Focus

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to SteveC55374 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #45 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja
Trading: NQ
 
cory's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,044 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 857 given, 7,916 received


supermht View Post
I use NT and I like it, I don't understand people spend so much time to promote SC here, are you guys from SC?


Quoting 
If your question/request has been answered and you do not have anything further, then it is easiest for us if you do not reply again to say thank you. -SC

so I doubt if anybody want to 'promote' SC rather they just relate their own experiences with SC.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to cory for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #46 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,058 given, 14,553 received


supermht View Post
I use NT and I like it, I don't understand people spend so much time to promote SC here, are you guys from SC?

I was done with this thread but feel compelled to answer your question, as it sounds a bit like you may be questioning the ethics of those who are posting in favor of SC (as if we receive some benefit from relating our experiences with various products). To be clear: I have no interest in Sierra other than that I'm a user, and I pay full price just like everybody else. It is not SC's style to self-promote anyway (in fact, in contrast to many companies, I have never actually seen them advertise on forums although they might); it's a fantastic product, and their users tend to like it a lot and so when someone like the original poster of the thread asks for opinions, they are happy to relate their experience with the product.

It's kind of funny, I dug up this old post where I said this about 2.5 years ago:


josh View Post
Thanks Mike--I have tried SC and while I like it, I find the DOM too awkward for managing trades--it's just aesthetics mostly, but it does not "sing" to me. I was really on the verge of crossing over, but in the end it just didn't feel right.

In the next 18 months they made fantastic progress on the program as a whole and the DOM became better from when I first trialed it, so I made the switch. I thought SC's support staff was a bit rude at first and so I was hesitant to do business with them, but I am ultimately going to use the best product. So even if I did not like the support staff's directness, I respected the product and saw that it was clearly the work of professional software developers who prioritized speed, reliability, and somehow managed to keep it feature-rich, extremely customizable, while at the same time not sacrificing speed or stability.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #47 (permalink)
 Jonson 
Russia, St.Petersburg
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, CQG Desktop
Broker: NinjaTrader/CQG
Trading: Futures
 
Jonson's Avatar
 
Posts: 246 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 212 given, 115 received

hi
it all depends on what you need to trade, what indicators are and what they reveal
you should do a test in a normal session, the speed of the platform, convenience, etc.
my choice for today NT, as I understand the platform and it gives me pleasure in work, even despite the fact that sometimes I see excessive memory consumption

* If investing gets too difficult for a seventh grader to understand, the system is needlessly complex
* Markets produce an enormous volume of information, much of which is redundant
* In every game and con there's always an opponent, and there's always a victim. The trick is to know when you're the latter, so you can become the former
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Jonson for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #48 (permalink)
 GaryD 
Orlando, Florida
 
Experience: None
Platform: shoes
Trading: happy
 
GaryD's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,462 since May 2011

I'd be a Sierra Charts spokesperson. I certainly know how to post.



But they'd have to give me a hat.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #49 (permalink)
 Guss 
Ontario
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: Ninjatrader
Trading: futures (CL and ES),forex,Options
 
Posts: 135 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 57 given, 81 received

Can you use Mirus futures with Sierra charts? their website doesn't say that??
please confirm
Thanks

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #50 (permalink)
 josh 
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,469 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,058 given, 14,553 received


Guss View Post
Can you use Mirus futures with Sierra charts?

Yes, you can. @GaryD does just that.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #51 (permalink)
 GaryD 
Orlando, Florida
 
Experience: None
Platform: shoes
Trading: happy
 
GaryD's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,462 since May 2011


Guss View Post
Can you use Mirus futures with Sierra charts? their website doesn't say that??
please confirm
Thanks

Magnificent combination. Never, ever, a single lag, or crash, or outage. I have never been happier with my trading.

Just choose ZenFire from the Sierra list of data providers, use the exact same login info as with whatever other platform you were using, presto. Flawless.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #52 (permalink)
 Guss 
Ontario
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: Ninjatrader
Trading: futures (CL and ES),forex,Options
 
Posts: 135 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 57 given, 81 received


GaryD View Post
Magnificent combination. Never, ever, a single lag, or crash, or outage. I have never been happier with my trading.

Just choose ZenFire from the Sierra list of data providers, use the exact same login info as with whatever other platform you were using, presto. Flawless.

Thank you Gary for your feedback.
DO you execute trades off Sierra's Dom as well?
I have been using NT for years now with IB Feed, which is filtered of course.
I am considering Mirus as a broker now, and I am using a DEmo account with Zen fire, and I had to close 5 workspaces in order to handle zenfire data.
so now I Am running a single workspace with 11 chart smallest 1 min to daily for various markets with zenfire unfiltered data, and it seems ok until Yesterday when NG report came out, everything froze on NT including the DOM, so I am seeking some feedback regarding NT freezing in fast market environments, is that common?
I also had some issues this week with historical data when refreshing my charts since the data comes from NT servers and not mirus, I had lots of gaps and they had some issues with their servers it seems.

so can I still use NT or Sierra with mirus, without having to change anything on my account at Mirus end? are Mirus aware of that setup as well?

Any feedback is appreciated
Regards
Guss

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Guss for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #53 (permalink)
 NinjaTrader  NinjaTrader is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: NinjaTrader
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: NinjaTrader Webinars
Elite offer: Click here
 
 
NinjaTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,582 since May 2010
Thanks: 186 given, 2,464 received


Guss View Post
Thank you Gary for your feedback.
DO you execute trades off Sierra's Dom as well?
I have been using NT for years now with IB Feed, which is filtered of course.
I am considering Mirus as a broker now, and I am using a DEmo account with Zen fire, and I had to close 5 workspaces in order to handle zenfire data.
so now I Am running a single workspace with 11 chart smallest 1 min to daily for various markets with zenfire unfiltered data, and it seems ok until Yesterday when NG report came out, everything froze on NT including the DOM, so I am seeking some feedback regarding NT freezing in fast market environments, is that common?
I also had some issues this week with historical data when refreshing my charts since the data comes from NT servers and not mirus, I had lots of gaps and they had some issues with their servers it seems.

so can I still use NT or Sierra with mirus, without having to change anything on my account at Mirus end? are Mirus aware of that setup as well?

Any feedback is appreciated
Regards
Guss

Guss, performance most if not all of the time can be traced down to 3rd party indicators or strategies. We would be happy to analyze and help understand your installation. We have tens of thousands of NinjaTrader users on unfiltered feeds like Zen-Fire and CQG trading without incident daily. Send an email to our support team attention to RayD and I will ensure that it is routed to the appropriate individual.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to NinjaTrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #54 (permalink)
 Guss 
Ontario
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: Ninjatrader
Trading: futures (CL and ES),forex,Options
 
Posts: 135 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 57 given, 81 received


NinjaTrader View Post
Guss, performance most if not all of the time can be traced down to 3rd party indicators or strategies. We would be happy to analyze and help understand your installation. We have thousands on thousands of NinjaTrader/ZF users trading without incident daily. Send an email to our support team attention to RayD and I will ensure that it is routed to the appropriate individual.

Thank you for you reply,
I have contacted NT support several times, they did all the tests needed through remote support, and they couldn't do anything else. I had to reduce my workspace from 5 to a single workspace, still the same issue. I have a high performance computer as well, just over a year old. I do use a 3rd party indicator, but that's about it, the rest are NT built in indicators.
I love the NT charts, and been using them for years with IB filtered Data, but what kept me away from switching to another broker or data vendor with unfiltered data was the freezing issues.
I finally decided to go with another broker, but after what happened this week with after NG report yesterday and the back fill historical data issue with NT servers, made me a bit hesitant, so I am considering Sierra due to these issues. Adding to that the Static Dom additional cost of $.20 RT per/contract is ridiculous IMO.plus the License and monthly cost to lease the full version as well.
I am a full time trader and I trade multiple contracts on various instruments, and these costs add up for sure.
One other issue I am concerned about is that OCO orders rest on my computers instead of NT or brokers servers(not sure if this is related to NT or Mirus just thought to mentioning it as well)
I was also waiting for NT release NT8, but I was told that stability issues will not be resolved with NT8.
Anyway, I don't mean to talk bad about NT, cause I love your charts, and it is very hard for me to switch to another charting software at this stage, but I am being very honest.
If There anything you can help me with regarding the above, I will be more than happy to hear from you.

Thanks again
Guss

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #55 (permalink)
 NinjaTrader  NinjaTrader is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: NinjaTrader
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: NinjaTrader Webinars
Elite offer: Click here
 
 
NinjaTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,582 since May 2010
Thanks: 186 given, 2,464 received


Guss View Post
Thank you for you reply,
I have contacted NT support several times, they did all the tests needed through remote support, and they couldn't do anything else. I had to reduce my workspace from 5 to a single workspace, still the same issue. I have a high performance computer as well, just over a year old. I do use a 3rd party indicator, but that's about it, the rest are NT built in indicators.
I love the NT charts, and been using them for years with IB filtered Data, but what kept me away from switching to another broker or data vendor with unfiltered data was the freezing issues.
I finally decided to go with another broker, but after what happened this week with after NG report yesterday and the back fill historical data issue with NT servers, made me a bit hesitant, so I am considering Sierra due to these issues. Adding to that the Static Dom additional cost of $.20 RT per/contract is ridiculous IMO.plus the License and monthly cost to lease the full version as well.
I am a full time trader and I trade multiple contracts on various instruments, and these costs add up for sure.
One other issue I am concerned about is that OCO orders rest on my computers instead of NT or brokers servers(not sure if this is related to NT or Mirus just thought to mentioning it as well)
I was also waiting for NT release NT8, but I was told that stability issues will not be resolved with NT8.
Anyway, I don't mean to talk bad about NT, cause I love your charts, and it is very hard for me to switch to another charting software at this stage, but I am being very honest.
If There anything you can help me with regarding the above, I will be more than happy to hear from you.

Thanks again
Guss

Can you tell me what your ticket ID# was? I would like to investigate this further.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #56 (permalink)
 Guss 
Ontario
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: Ninjatrader
Trading: futures (CL and ES),forex,Options
 
Posts: 135 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 57 given, 81 received


NinjaTrader View Post
Can you tell me what your ticket ID# was? I would like to investigate this further.

I had several, these are the last two ticket numbers:.897388,862155
Keep in mind NT Tech support team are one of the best I ever had experience with. They are very efficient, professional, polite, and patient. They give their best to resolve the issue ASAP.I had dealt with different individuals within your tech support team , and they all have the same professional attitude.

Thank you

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #57 (permalink)
 NinjaTrader  NinjaTrader is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: NinjaTrader
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: NinjaTrader Webinars
Elite offer: Click here
 
 
NinjaTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,582 since May 2010
Thanks: 186 given, 2,464 received


Guss View Post
I had several, these are the last two ticket numbers:.897388,862155
Keep in mind NT Tech support team are one of the best I ever had experience with. They are very efficient, professional, polite, and patient. They give their best to resolve the issue ASAP.I had dealt with different individuals within your tech support team , and they all have the same professional attitude.

Thank you

Thanks for the kind words.

- The historical data issue was resolved immediately as a result of having fail over servers --> This is not a regular occurrence but any data provider has to deal with unexpected issues. We have a 5 servers across two data centers that ensure multiple levels of failover. Sorry that you got caught by this issue.
- In reviewing your ticket history, it appears that the reduction of seven live workspaces down to 1, a tweaking of some chart lookback settings helped in performance. The peformance issue was then isolated down to a single indicator (I could not tell if this was 3rd party but I presume this is the case since we generally don't have issues with our system indicators)

If you wish, I can have my team further look if there is anything that can be done to better optimize this particular indicator.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to NinjaTrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #58 (permalink)
 GaryD 
Orlando, Florida
 
Experience: None
Platform: shoes
Trading: happy
 
GaryD's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,462 since May 2011


Guss View Post
Thank you Gary for your feedback.
DO you execute trades off Sierra's Dom as well?
I have been using NT for years now with IB Feed, which is filtered of course.
I am considering Mirus as a broker now, and I am using a DEmo account with Zen fire, and I had to close 5 workspaces in order to handle zenfire data.
so now I Am running a single workspace with 11 chart smallest 1 min to daily for various markets with zenfire unfiltered data, and it seems ok until Yesterday when NG report came out, everything froze on NT including the DOM, so I am seeking some feedback regarding NT freezing in fast market environments, is that common?
I also had some issues this week with historical data when refreshing my charts since the data comes from NT servers and not mirus, I had lots of gaps and they had some issues with their servers it seems.

so can I still use NT or Sierra with mirus, without having to change anything on my account at Mirus end? are Mirus aware of that setup as well?

Any feedback is appreciated
Regards
Guss


No, I hate DOMs in any platform


Ninja Trader is not a bad platform, I know guys that blow me away who use it. My reasons for going to SC over NT;

1) I run an older XP machine that has limited resources. SC ran on less than NT for the same number of charts.
2) I wanted to get into market profile heavily. NT offers it with a 3rd party, and I enjoyed that. finalgo. SC offers it included.
3) I wanted some very specific capabilities that were easier for me to customize through SC than NT, mostly because I have no idea how to write code. I could pay someone, but just.

The downside of SC is it is a lot tougher to use out of the box, does not offer as much in available indicators, not as familiar to brokers when I call for support, etc. It is a preference. The platform or broker you choose it personal preference.

I love Mirus, they answer my calls so fast every time. That was what I wanted. They do not offer every market I want to see. Its a tradeoff.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #59 (permalink)
 Guss 
Ontario
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: Ninjatrader
Trading: futures (CL and ES),forex,Options
 
Posts: 135 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 57 given, 81 received


NinjaTrader View Post
Thanks for the kind words.

- The historical data issue was resolved immediately as a result of having fail over servers --> This is not a regular occurrence but any data provider has to deal with unexpected issues. We have a 5 servers across two data centers that ensure multiple levels of failover. Sorry that you got caught by this issue.
- In reviewing your ticket history, it appears that the reduction of seven live workspaces down to 1, a tweaking of some chart lookback settings helped in performance. The peformance issue was then isolated down to a single indicator (I could not tell if this was 3rd party but I presume this is the case since we generally don't have issues with our system indicators)

If you wish, I can have my team further look if there is anything that can be done to better optimize this particular indicator.

Thanks again,
I would appreciate that If possible, cause today as we are corresponding, my charts froze twice when Crude oil rallied around 10:30 and now I am having difficulties doing anything with NT as oil is rallying again.
Everything is stuck as we speak

Thanks

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #60 (permalink)
 Guss 
Ontario
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: Ninjatrader
Trading: futures (CL and ES),forex,Options
 
Posts: 135 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 57 given, 81 received


GaryD View Post
No, I hate DOMs in any platform


Ninja Trader is not a bad platform, I know guys that blow me away who use it. My reasons for going to SC over NT;

1) I run an older XP machine that has limited resources. SC ran on less than NT for the same number of charts.
2) I wanted to get into market profile heavily. NT offers it with a 3rd party, and I enjoyed that. finalgo. SC offers it included.
3) I wanted some very specific capabilities that were easier for me to customize through SC than NT, mostly because I have no idea how to write code. I could pay someone, but just.

The downside of SC is it is a lot tougher to use out of the box, does not offer as much in available indicators, not as familiar to brokers when I call for support, etc. It is a preference. The platform or broker you choose it personal preference.

I love Mirus, they answer my calls so fast every time. That was what I wanted. They do not offer every market I want to see. Its a tradeoff.

Thanks Gary for your feedback, Much appreciated

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #61 (permalink)
 Guss 
Ontario
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: Ninjatrader
Trading: futures (CL and ES),forex,Options
 
Posts: 135 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 57 given, 81 received


NinjaTrader View Post
Thanks for the kind words.

- The historical data issue was resolved immediately as a result of having fail over servers --> This is not a regular occurrence but any data provider has to deal with unexpected issues. We have a 5 servers across two data centers that ensure multiple levels of failover. Sorry that you got caught by this issue.
- In reviewing your ticket history, it appears that the reduction of seven live workspaces down to 1, a tweaking of some chart lookback settings helped in performance. The peformance issue was then isolated down to a single indicator (I could not tell if this was 3rd party but I presume this is the case since we generally don't have issues with our system indicators)

If you wish, I can have my team further look if there is anything that can be done to better optimize this particular indicator.

Thanks for your immediate action and support ( love your customer service quality and support another thing that keeps me with NT)
I just got off the phone with Matt Tech support, I am sure he will brief you about it. I will have to play around with my indicators to try to reduce the CPU usage at this stage. but nothing much can be done about it.
I will be looking forward for the next release hoping these issues can be resolved.
Thanks again for your help

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #62 (permalink)
 NinjaTrader  NinjaTrader is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: NinjaTrader
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: NinjaTrader Webinars
Elite offer: Click here
 
 
NinjaTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,582 since May 2010
Thanks: 186 given, 2,464 received


Guss View Post
Thanks for your immediate action and support ( love your customer service quality and support another thing that keeps me with NT)
I just got off the phone with Matt Tech support, I am sure he will brief you about it. I will have to play around with my indicators to try to reduce the CPU usage at this stage. but nothing much can be done about it.
I will be looking forward for the next release hoping these issues can be resolved.
Thanks again for your help

You are welcome.

To clarify, as we suspected, the issue is that you have a 3rd party indicator that is CPU intensive. Although Matt has suggested a few tweaks on the NinjaTrader side to make it run as optimally as possible, a CPU intensive indicator is outside of our control. The original developer of it would need to step in to improve its performance.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to NinjaTrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #63 (permalink)
shanemcdonald28
new york
 
 
Posts: 355 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 665 given, 580 received

I no longer add any 3rd party indicators to ninja.
Since removing them all , I have not had any memory problems.

shane

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to shanemcdonald28 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #64 (permalink)
 Guss 
Ontario
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: Ninjatrader
Trading: futures (CL and ES),forex,Options
 
Posts: 135 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 57 given, 81 received


NinjaTrader View Post
You are welcome.

To clarify, as we suspected, the issue is that you have a 3rd party indicator that is CPU intensive. Although Matt has suggested a few tweaks on the NinjaTrader side to make it run as optimally as possible, a CPU intensive indicator is outside of our control. The original developer of it would need to step in to improve its performance.

I have decided to stick to NT, and go with NT lifetime License, nothing can beat NT customer service and support, and I mean nothing.
Thanks for you help and support.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #65 (permalink)
 NinjaTrader  NinjaTrader is an official Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Web: NinjaTrader
AMA: Ask Me Anything
Webinars: NinjaTrader Webinars
Elite offer: Click here
 
 
NinjaTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,582 since May 2010
Thanks: 186 given, 2,464 received


Guss View Post
I have decided to stick to NT, and go with NT lifetime License, nothing can beat NT customer service and support, and I mean nothing.
Thanks for you help and support.

Thanks Guss for your vote of confidence in our company by purchasing a lifetime license.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #66 (permalink)
 budfox 
Toronto
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra
Broker: MB
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 313 since Jun 2013

Dear Sierra Charts support staff,

Hi am wondering what is the minimum internet requirements for using Sierra Charts? How successfully would I be able to trade using a dial up connection?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #67 (permalink)
 budfox 
Toronto
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra
Broker: MB
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 313 since Jun 2013

how often can we get an extension on our SC demo?

I am backtesting a new model and dont want to have a 'live feed'


Thanks.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #68 (permalink)
 GentleTrader 
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Stage5/IQFeed
Trading: ES
 
GentleTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 87 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 7 given, 47 received

I used to be a huge fan of Ninjatrader. In the past, Sierra looked so 80's for me. This year I just gave Sierra another try. Just fall in love with it.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to GentleTrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #69 (permalink)
 vk79 
Michigan
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Trading: NQ
 
vk79's Avatar
 
Posts: 155 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 264 given, 85 received


GentleTrader View Post
I used to be a huge fan of Ninjatrader. In the past, Sierra looked so 80's for me. This year I just gave Sierra another try. Just fall in love with it.

Me too

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to vk79 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #70 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
mattz's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,489 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 2,429 given, 3,764 received


GentleTrader View Post
I used to be a huge fan of Ninjatrader. In the past, Sierra looked so 80's for me. This year I just gave Sierra another try. Just fall in love with it.

It would be nice if you were a bit more specific as far as the features you liked about Sierra.
I am curious what traders appreciate about it so I can point it out those that may have similar needs. @vk79 same goes for you.

Matt
Optimus Futures
There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #71 (permalink)
 amoeba 
Sydney, NSW, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart, Python, C#
Broker: Interactive Brokers
Trading: MJNK, ASX, SPI
 
amoeba's Avatar
 
Posts: 205 since Jan 2014
Thanks: 98 given, 273 received

I also just opened a sierra account package #5, coming from NinjaTrader.

My main points were;
- Standard inclusion of volume & market profile
- Excellent developer documentation
- Responsive development team
- Regular software updates/fixes

Being fair, NT also has extensive developer documentation, and I do still run my automated strategies through Ninja.

Once I have my feet solid in the Sierra platform I plan to make some posts about how to generate statistical homework from Sierra using their built in spreadsheets and studies. This feature, I think, is understated and potentially brings the platform to rival the research abilities of packages like Investor RT. You can export everything, without requiring developing custom indicators and strategies to extract the information (which is what I was doing in NT).

Hats off to the @SierraChart team, excellent piece of software.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to amoeba for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #72 (permalink)
 LukeGeniol 
Italy (IT)
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ATAS, R|Trader, NT8
Broker: Rithmic
Trading: CL, Brent, GC, TF
 
LukeGeniol's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,501 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 408 given, 984 received

I like very much Sierrachart, it's the most customizable platform for non good programmers, with a lot of built in studies (indicators) and tools, featuers rich. The problem is that SC became slower in charts update or speed in real time, also slower to submit orders. For me the speed matter. I done some comparison with other platforms in the past months, and I have recorded some of them. I wanted to make a new thread on this, but I have not had time.
Another thing is regarding about what Rithmic API @SierraChart uses and other platforms too, cause there are some different API, and the speed of orders execution ( maybe another thread on this?).
Lubo.

Take your Pips, go out and Live.
Luke.
Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #73 (permalink)
 SierraChart 
New Zealand
 
Experience: Master
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Numerous
Trading: NONE
 
SierraChart's Avatar
 
Posts: 114 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 4 given, 242 received


LukeGeniol View Post
I like very much Sierrachart, it's the most customizable platform for non good programmers, with a lot of built in studies (indicators) and tools, featuers rich.

The problem is that SC became slower in charts update or speed in real time, also slower to submit orders. For me the speed matter. I done some comparison with other platforms in the past months, and I have recorded some of them. I wanted to make a new thread on this, but I have not had time.
Another thing is regarding about what Rithmic API @SierraChart uses and other platforms too, cause there are some different API, and the speed of orders execution ( maybe another thread on this?).
Lubo.

If you have a problem with the speed of chart updating and order submission, then refer to help topics 4 and 30:
Help topic 4: Prices / Data Falling Behind - Sierra Chart
Help topic 30: High CPU Usage/Long Time to Load Chart Data - Sierra Chart

A problem like this would have to do with your overall Sierra Chart set up or Internet connectivity. Otherwise, Sierra Chart is not going to be slow and nothing has changed in this regard. We continue to improve the overall performance of Sierra Chart. Users should generally notice the exact opposite.

The most recent performance improvement was with the Volume by Price study when using certain profile configurations.

Sierra Chart uses the Rithmic C++ API which is separated into a separate process to insulate Sierra Chart from any faults and also design issues. That can introduce small microsecond/millisecond lags but this is all.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to SierraChart for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #74 (permalink)
 SierraChart 
New Zealand
 
Experience: Master
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Numerous
Trading: NONE
 
SierraChart's Avatar
 
Posts: 114 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 4 given, 242 received

Another thing that we want to add, is that with the DTC Protocol support in Sierra Chart, both as a client and as a server, it is possible to use other instances of Sierra Chart to receive market data and perform trading when they are connected to an instance of Sierra Chart connected to your trading account. This lets you share the connection.

The trading part is still in development and should be ready next week. More information is on this page:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/DTCServer.php

The above page is kind of technical and is not really written for the purpose we are describing above but that will be worked on.

So one advantage of this, is that if you are doing a lot of CPU intensive things in Sierra Chart and you notice that it is getting slow, you can distribute the load among multiple Sierra Chart instances.

However, there is another method that Sierra Chart has to support multiple instances and this is documented here:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/MultipleServices.html

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to SierraChart for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #75 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 50,068 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,534 given, 98,493 received


LukeGeniol View Post
I like very much Sierrachart, it's the most customizable platform for non good programmers, with a lot of built in studies (indicators) and tools, featuers rich. The problem is that SC became slower in charts update or speed in real time, also slower to submit orders. For me the speed matter. I done some comparison with other platforms in the past months, and I have recorded some of them. I wanted to make a new thread on this, but I have not had time.
Another thing is regarding about what Rithmic API @SierraChart uses and other platforms too, cause there are some different API, and the speed of orders execution ( maybe another thread on this?).
Lubo.

What exactly is your hardware? I run Sierra with around 75 charts, and I'm using a really old i5-3470 because my primary i7 was damaged and I'm waiting for new parts on the next container... but point is, even with an old i5 and 75 charts, Sierra is anything but slow. It's incredibly fast compared to any other platform I've ever used... This system does still have 32GB, like my primary, and I also moved over my 1TB Samsung 850 SSD.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #76 (permalink)
 LukeGeniol 
Italy (IT)
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ATAS, R|Trader, NT8
Broker: Rithmic
Trading: CL, Brent, GC, TF
 
LukeGeniol's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,501 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 408 given, 984 received


SierraChart View Post
If you have a problem with the speed of chart updating and order submission, then refer to help topics 4 and 30:
Help topic 4: Prices / Data Falling Behind - Sierra Chart
Help topic 30: High CPU Usage/Long Time to Load Chart Data - Sierra Chart

A problem like this would have to do with your overall Sierra Chart set up or Internet connectivity. Otherwise, Sierra Chart is not going to be slow and nothing has changed in this regard. We continue to improve the overall performance of Sierra Chart. Users should generally notice the exact opposite.

The most recent performance improvement was with the Volume by Price study when using certain profile configurations.

Sierra Chart uses the Rithmic C++ API which is separated into a separate process to insulate Sierra Chart from any faults and also design issues. That can introduce small microsecond/millisecond lags but this is all.

Thanks, it was my fault.
Now I understand why and that is totally stupid. All started few months ago when I did a clean install of Windows 10 on my PCs, and I had to reinstall all the softwares including SC. I reported the SC file that I needed, and it startet to go slower, and also with each new release. I see now that I forgot to do some set-up and one of them was precisely the chart uptade interval. Now it seems to go fast again. I do not know regarding the sending of orders, it seems to me that this was slow even before. But this is not a problem for me because I prefer to enter orders directly on the native platform, and do not need complex orders. Anyway I will do some test again on both.
Thanks again and sorry for my mistake.
Lubo

Take your Pips, go out and Live.
Luke.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to LukeGeniol for this post:


futures io Trading Community Platforms and Indicators > Ninja Trader or Sierra Charts


Last Updated on October 21, 2015


Upcoming Webinars and Events

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing

Journal Challenge w/$1,800 in prizes!

May 7

The Cold Hard Truth: Maybe I Am Not Good Enough w/Chris Gray @ Earn2Trade

Elite only
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada), info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts