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Ninja Trader or Sierra Charts
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Ninja Trader or Sierra Charts

  #31 (permalink)
Elite Member
Quebec
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
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Can we use Sierra on two platforms (Laptop+Desktop) simultaneously? With Ninja you need to buy another license. Is it the same with Sierra?

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  #32 (permalink)
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trendisyourfriend View Post
Can we use Sierra on two platforms (Laptop+Desktop) simultaneously? With Ninja you need to buy another license. Is it the same with Sierra?

Yes, you can.

http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=doc/PurchaseInformation.php#Licensing

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  #33 (permalink)
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omaha786 View Post
Regarding the cost, I heard you have to pay some extra fees on per trade basis with NT. )

There is a trade fee if you optionally use our Static version of our SuperDOM which is licensed from Trading Technologies otherwise, you don't pay an additional fee. Most of our users don't choose this option.


@aligator,
As for freezing. There is a difference between application lock up or stale quotes. Either way, my support team is happy to analyze your particular scenario. Please contact our support team NinjaTrader stock, futures and forex charting software and online trading platform. Support..

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  #34 (permalink)
Elite Member
Portland, OR
 
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Apologize for the Lengthy Post:

Having used majority of the platforms one way or other - thought of providing some input in this regard - For specific features that I have explored - not necessarily main features.

Ability to control the sequence of data processing ( 5 minute first and then 1 minute data second ): ( This was the MOST important feature for me)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ninja:
If I have 1 minute as primary and 5 minute as secondary series - for the same tick of data - I can't make the calculated data from 5 minute made available to 1 minute data.

https://futures.io/ninjatrader/13894-unofficial-ninjatrader-8-wish-list-thread-nt8-43.html#post298897

SC(Winner): Precedence can be controlled Very nicely. Don't know how many would actually use this feature - but hats off to SC team to think through and implement a solution for this. Even in MC - there is a "recalculate" feature and indirectly this can be done but no work-arounds in Ninja.

Historical vs realtime bar timestamp
----------------------------------------
Ninja - If you take a 5 minute bar - the bar timestamp is CLOSE time stamp and not OPEN timestamp and varies based on whether it's a minute based data or tick based data. One need to be careful about building indicators/systems etc to distiguish Historical vs realtime - I find it really difficult to deal with this.

SC(Winner) - Bar timestamp is always OPEN timestamp and doesn't change irrespective of the bar type used - makes it so meaningful to have it this way ( personally like it this way )

GDI objects control
-------------------------
Ninja(winner) - This is very flexible to control the GDI objects as the default structure exposed to Custom Plot data.

SC - They have recently introduced GDI based draw methods - but can't use SC structure in the draw objects. Using work arounds is a bit cumbersome and some stuff that I could have done in Ninja - still finding it a bit difficult to do in SC. this might change if SC structure is exposed to GDI function.

UpTick/DownTick/Up Volume/Down Volume:
-------------------------------------------
Ninja - With NT 7 - it's not possible to have these values at present natively and likely to change with NT 8 - but not sure to what extent. (GOMI built excellent extentins to overcome this limitation - would prefer to have this natively)
SC(winner) - In current state - this has built-in way to extract the data for individual need and there is no equal at this time

General Replay capabilities ( while live feed is connected ):
--------------------------------------------------------
Ninja - One can't have replay of the existing chart while connected to live feed ( based on NT8 feedback looks like this might be possible)
SC(Winner) - Have this ability and like this aspect to quickly observe/repeat the the last price action very quickly if needed.

Replay including level 2:
-------------------------
Ninja(Winner) - With stored level 2 information and availability of this data during market replay is really a nice thing to have

SC - There is no such feature and is not likely to happen in the future as well.

Fill Model:
------------
NT(Winner) - Though most of the users might not agree - NT has provided a way to get a specific SIM fill - "Enforce Partial Fills" checked and "Enfore Immediate Fills" unchecked. Ideally there should have been an option to pick - the number of contracts traded before a trade is filled.

SC - The current mode of Fill is good ( where bid to cross/touch for a short fill and ask need to cross/touch for a long fill) - however there should have been an option to provide an input - like selecting the number of contracts filled before a fill can happen rather than the current rigid way of simulating a fill. It has it's own advantages but don't like this "forced" way of using it personally.

Accomodating Customer's feature requests:
-----------------------------------------
NT - Though few requests are genuine and potentially can be implemented with not much major effort - Haven't seen this approach from NT development team.

SC(Winner) - Ask them anything - if it is a reasonable request - they would implement very very quickly. I like this aspect the most. They do push back on certain requests - if implementation is a bit difficult - but they would revisit this aspect when they find some time to think over this.

Bottom Line:
------------
Each platform would have it's own merits and one need to pick the one close to their needs. Actually started with Ninja and tried my best to stick with it - but as the MOST Important feature I was looking for - First point - Sequence of tick processing - I couldn't get done in Ninja along with lack of upTicks/DownTicks - Made me look at Sierra and so far very happy with this choice.

PS: Didn't include other platforms like MC/NeoTicker etc into this mix as the question is mainly about Ninja or Sierra. Still use Ninja occassionally when level 2 replay is needed. With NT 8 - might use it little more but as Ninja team made it's stance clear about NOT addressing the question I have raised about data series processing logic - it's a bummer for me..

Thanks


Last edited by ejtrader; June 3rd, 2013 at 10:11 PM.
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  #35 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Las Vegas, NV
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Abacus, Slide Rule, HP-65, Metastock, TOS, NT
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NinjaTrader View Post

@aligator,
As for freezing. There is a difference between application lock up or stale quotes. Either way, my support team is happy to analyze your particular scenario. Please contact our support team NinjaTrader stock, futures and forex charting software and online trading platform. Support..

Thanks Ninjatrader,

I don't know what stale data or lock up are. All I see on loading 5 days of 800 tick chart is that it goes into an un-ending spinning.

I have already searched NT Forum for freezing issues (this is not the first time) There are several threads. Basically the Support concludes the resolution with:

Send us your trace and log files, your system information, your version, data source, you may be loading too many days of data, etc. etc, and finally at the end after all fails, they advise to delete -Worrkspces.XML file and build your workspace again. I have not found one example that Support was able to pinpoint what the freezing issue was.

Funny that this happens only for certain instruments such as CL, NQ, TF, etc. usually on Sundays and Monday open for me.

I have decided for the time being it is less headache for me to simply go to the final solution: to start the day with a blank Workspace, download a couple of days of of tick data, then load other workspaces and everything loads and work fine.

I really don't have to do this, do I ? I am still using version 11 and have not upgraded to 12 yet, fearing any unseen issues that can keep me down and out of rhythm for the week.

Still, I find NT a decent software serving my needs after over 37 years of using almost anything out there from the first DOS version of Metastock, SuperCharts, etc. to just about any of the current breeds.

Cheers!

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  #36 (permalink)
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aligator View Post
It is great to be able to express one's opinion based on personal experience only. But, with all due respect, to state that it is a shame other users not knowing their options and are making regrettable decisions is a bit presumptuous.

One's opinion based on one's personal experience carries more weight than based on one's perception of other people experiences. Lots of real traders here use NT for reasons unknown to public and they seem to be happy and making money too.

Cheers!

Let me rephrase aligator -- I think it would be regrettable for someone to only ever try one or two software packages, and not try anything else, regardless of the particular software. Said another way, there are some fine options out there, so it would be a shame IMO to not explore several options.

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  #37 (permalink)
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aligator View Post
Basically the Support concludes the resolution with:

Send us your trace and log files, your system information, your version, data source, you may be loading too many days of data, etc. etc, and finally at the end after all fails, they advise to delete -Worrkspces.XML file and build your workspace again. I have not found one example that Support was able to pinpoint what the freezing issue was.

This is NT support in a nutshell. They are very polite people, but at the end of the day, it's easier to just tell the customer to delete the workspaces.xml file, and start all over. I can not count how many times I had to delete workspaces.xml. It's sad that this winds up being the support resolution so often.


aligator View Post
I have decided for the time being it is less headache for me to simply go to the final solution: to start the day with a blank Workspace, download a couple of days of of tick data, then load other workspaces and everything loads and work fine.

And again, a very appropriate word for hoops I had to jump through on a daily basis with NT: headache. Instead of focusing on trading, you have to do a blank workspace, download data, and then load your workspaces. These are unnecessary distractions. Quite often NT support's answer to issues was to be sure I restarted the program every night. Well, that was not a viable option, because I was recording Gom data, and it shouldn't have to be--if a software program can't run all week, from Sunday to Friday, without needing to be restarted every day, that speaks to its lack of robustness.

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  #38 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Las Vegas, NV
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Abacus, Slide Rule, HP-65, Metastock, TOS, NT
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josh View Post
Let me rephrase aligator -- so it would be a shame IMO to not explore several options.

We simply don't know If people have or have not tried several options. You are just assuming, that is the point.

"Enough said."

Thanks for the dialogue.

Cheers!


Last edited by aligator; June 4th, 2013 at 12:30 AM.
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  #39 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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josh View Post
Enough said. I have not heard of ONE Sierra user who has used it for any period of time and switched to NT. Yet, most all SC users have used NT extensively at some point, found it to be lacking in most every respect, and switched, based on an actual comparison between the two. NT users are usually so by default, because it's the only thing they've tried, because it's totally free for life if you don't trade with it. SC users are usually so because they have made a real comparison, and made a logical choice.

wow. I had no idea that you know most of all nt and sierra users. congratulations



josh View Post
I have listed, and can list again if you like, the many ways that SC is superior, both on a performance basis and on a feature basis. However, why don't we approach it from a different perspective. Instead of listing the ways that NT is simply as good as SC in comparison, how about listing one or two ways that NT is actually better than SC? In other words, what would a SC users be able to say, "man, I wish SC had this feature that NT has..." I'm sure there are some, I just can't think of any.

here's some good advice. read first and then make a comment. let me rephrase for you again. "I don't see any sierra features I like that I can't have with nt7". with other words, I'm talking about ME. maybe you know any?



josh View Post
Example?

sure. how about your own complaint? VWAP SD bands incorrect - Sierra Chart fyi, in fat tails new version there's a significant improvement to calculate the bands. make sure you send that as well to sierra.



josh View Post
So on a public forum where 90% are sim trading, you think it's a plus that the platform of choice for sim-only traders, NT, is something to brag about? Nothing wrong with sim trading, at all. But NT is well-established because it's FREE, and thus many who aren't willing to spend a penny on their platform and who are on a never-ending indicator grail quest are drawn to it and all the freebie code available. So, it is not surprising that it also attracts many programmers (and some very good ones, like Fat Tails, gomi, etc.). But in the end, a popularity contest where one is free for life and another is not, is not exactly comparing apples to apples.

hmmm. the way you talk about this public forum makes me wonder why you spend so much time here. obviously it doesn't meet your standard. btw I've seen a few brokers that offer sierra for free as well.


josh View Post
I should make one thing very clear: I have no gripe with NT users (I used to be one after all), and think it's great if an NT users loves his or her software, if it does the job. My issue is not with users who have chosen their software and are happy with it. However, I am free to speak my opinion and in my belief, people who use NT without exploring other options are making a regrettable decision, and so I am only encouraging people to explore their options. There are some great pieces of trading software out there that people simply never try, and get frustrated because they just do not know their options, and I think that is a shame.

same here, I don't have any problems with sierra at all. actually it seems pretty good and solid what I hear. just trying to show that nt7 is not as bad as many say. at the end it's everyone's personal choice. for me sierra and nt are both pretty cheap options, but good enough. again depending what you're after. I come from platforms like bloomberg and reuters (instinet) which are a bit different. but for what I do now, I'm perfectly happy with nt7.

feel free to comment, I've said enough and will not reply anymore.


Last edited by Silvester17; June 4th, 2013 at 01:39 AM.
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  #40 (permalink)
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