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Ninja Trader or Sierra Charts
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Ninja Trader or Sierra Charts

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
las vegas
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Velocity/IB
Favorite Futures: 6E
 
Posts: 1,147 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 304 given, 836 received

FYI, if package 3 is sufficient, then you can get that free through velocity, like me . As a long-term user of both platforms, I can say that SC puts NT to shame in almost every respect except a large programmer base and backtesting optimization, both of which SC lacks. If you heavily rely on either, then NT may be the way to go, otherwise SC is the obvious choice. NT8 could change things, but honestly I didn't see anything in the NT8 webinar that convinced me of that.

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  #12 (permalink)
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vegasfoster View Post
FYI, if package 3 is sufficient, then you can get that free through velocity, like me . As a long-term user of both platforms, I can say that SC puts NT to shame in almost every respect except a large programmer base and backtesting optimization, both of which SC lacks. If you heavily rely on either, then NT may be the way to go, otherwise SC is the obvious choice. NT8 could change things, but honestly I didn't see anything in the NT8 webinar that convinced me of that.

The only issue with paying through a broker like Velocity (and getting it free) is that you do not get some direct access features. I think that getting $TICK is one example--I get this, advance/decline, and many CFD contracts that mirror cash indexes of S&P, DJIA, Nasdaq, Nikkei, Hang Seng, Dax, Stoxx, etc., free through SC. I do not think this is possible without a direct access account, so it may be a consideration for someone looking into this option.

You bring up some good points--though I found it very easy to port NT code to SC code if there is an indicator that really needs to be coded!

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  #13 (permalink)
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Fadi View Post
Either way, I don't like infinite recurring running costs - paying a monthly fee forever... yuk!
I personally prefer to pay once, amortise that cost over a given period of time, and then get done with it.

If Sierra is to offer a possibility to buy a lifetime license at a future stage, and they are still leading by then, trust me I would switch in a heartbeat.
But for now, this is a deal breaker for me, surely a smart way for them to assure a steady income, but not for me.

Ditto -- if SC ever offers a lifetime license (not sure why they would though), I will get it in a heartbeat. But even with owning a lifetime license and the fact that I also hate recurring costs, SC is too much better for me to worry about the $40 a month or so.

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  #14 (permalink)
Elite Member
Luxembourg
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB / Kinetick
Favorite Futures: ZN
 
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josh View Post
Ditto -- if SC ever offers a lifetime license (not sure why they would though), I will get it in a heartbeat. But even with owning a lifetime license and the fact that I also hate recurring costs, SC is too much better for me to worry about the $40 a month or so.

If only it were just $40 per month...
The problem is that I will have to pay for a DTN IQFeed subscription too, and that's more than $200 per month if I were to subscribe to all the exchanges that I use Kinetick is much cheaper.

This amount of $2,400+ per year is what I pay for my accountant to issue all the certificates and do the paper work with the gov. Why double expenses when you can avoid?

Successful people will do what unsuccessful people won't or can't do!
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  #15 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Jose, CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: IB/IQFeed
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Fadi View Post
The problem is that I will have to pay for a DTN IQFeed subscription too, and that's more than $200 per month if I were to subscribe to all the exchanges that I use Kinetick is much cheaper.

Just curious how you can save $200 / month with Kinetick. I was not aware that there was that much difference and looking at the fees of each, I can't figure it out.

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  #16 (permalink)
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Futures Experience: Advanced
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Jolew View Post
Just curious how you can save $200 / month with Kinetick. I was not aware that there was that much difference and looking at the fees of each, I can't figure it out.

Funny how this thread turned to be all about me and my costs
I am sorry for Steve who initiated this... I hope this will help him nonetheless in his choice.

But wait a second, where and when did I say that I will save $200 respect to Kinetick?
Or was it implicitly understood that way because I previously mentioned Kinetick somewhere?
Sorry for the confusion...

Let me iterate and summarize all my comment again in here:

I was just saying that going with SierraChart for me and with my current broker at least; it won't be $40 per month but way higher, more than $200 per month in fact because I will have to subscribe to another data provider (I am taking DTN IQFeed as an example since it is famous in here on futures.io (formerly BMT) and considered among the best).

I am saying this honestly to simply warn that it is not only about platform monthly costs; but one has to look at the entire setup and take into consideration the data fee as well. OF course please do not skim on the platform's features for the sake of saving on costs.

but since we are only discussing costs now, it is definitely fair to compare NT7 at 50$ per month versus SC at 35.10$ per month; I totally agree, but then you have to see in your particular case how much more would it cost you to trade in total.

1. if you get a quality data feed from your broker for free, then yes SC will be cheaper than NT7 and definitely for the first two years when you buy the lifetimes license for 995$ on NT.
After that, it will be just $0 for NT7 and $35.10 per month for SC. Bingo that cost is peanut as josh said, and one wouldn't mind that little fee for a quality software of course.

2. if you don't get a quality data feed from your broker for free (my case), then one has to incorporate that extra cost in the calculation, and believe it or not Kinetick is the cheapest you can find on the market nowadays.

My Personal costs if I were to select DTN IQFeed with Sierra would be:
1. platform lease $35.10
2. Basic Service $68
3. RT US Futures $20
4. Level 2 $20
5. CME exchanges $0
6. ICE US $90
7. NASDAQ $6
8. NYSE $6
TOTAL = $245.10 per month

My Personal costs if i were to select Kinetick with NT7 would be:
1. Platform lease $0 after 20 months of use
2. Basic Service $50
3. RT US Futures $0
4. Level 2 $20
5. CME exchanges $0
6. ICEUS $75 (but through IB)
7. NASDAQ $6
8. NYSE $6
TOTAL = $157.00 per month


SAVING = $88.10 per month or $1,057.20 per year

Hope that clears it all now

Cheers
Fadi


PS: reading again my previous comments, I guess this is what created the confusion


Fadi View Post
This amount of $2,400+ per year is what I pay for my accountant to issue all the certificates and do the paper work with the gov. Why double expenses when you can avoid?

I perhaps expressed myself wrongly, sorry I didn't mean that it would be additional $2400+ than current cost.

Successful people will do what unsuccessful people won't or can't do!

Last edited by Fadi; June 3rd, 2013 at 05:23 AM.
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  #17 (permalink)
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Hi,


Fadi View Post
Either way, I don't like infinite recurring running costs - paying a monthly fee forever... yuk!
I personally prefer to pay once, amortise that cost over a given period of time, and then get done with it.

The lifetime license for Ninjatrader is $995 or the equivalent of 20 months of lease. In less than two years you are good!
If you get a deal from your broker for data, that's perfect, and SierraChart will be cheaper for the first 20 months only... With a lifetime license you would be going 100% free of charges after 20 months of use - both platform and data (since it is coming from your broker for free).

One of the drawbacks of the lifetime license is that you are not sure that the product will continue to meet your needs in the future, either because your needs will change, or because the product would have become out-of-date.

In my personal case, I have purchased a lifetime licence of (normal) MultiCharts. In retrospect, I somehow regret it, because my needs have changed (I switched to SC), and this lifetime license does not allow me benefiting from more advanced MC.net

Just my opinion.

Nicolas

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  #18 (permalink)
Elite Member
las vegas
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Velocity/IB
Favorite Futures: 6E
 
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josh View Post
The only issue with paying through a broker like Velocity (and getting it free) is that you do not get some direct access features. I think that getting $TICK is one example--I get this, advance/decline, and many CFD contracts that mirror cash indexes of S&P, DJIA, Nasdaq, Nikkei, Hang Seng, Dax, Stoxx, etc., free through SC. I do not think this is possible without a direct access account, so it may be a consideration for someone looking into this option.

You bring up some good points--though I found it very easy to port NT code to SC code if there is an indicator that really needs to be coded!

I get the market stats and I'm pretty sure which contracts you can access is a function of the broker, and not SC. As far as I know the Velocity version is not limited in any regard. I did read where they stated that they are giving preference to direct accounts in the support forum though, which is a consideration if your require a lot of support. That said, they have still always answered my non-programming questions. I would recommend if you use Velocity, no reason not to try the free version, and if you find it's not sufficient for any reason, then start paying. It's dirt cheap any way you look at it.

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  #19 (permalink)
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vegasfoster View Post
I get the market stats and I'm pretty sure which contracts you can access is a function of the broker, and not SC. As far as I know the Velocity version is not limited in any regard. I did read where they stated that they are giving preference to direct accounts in the support forum though, which is a consideration if your require a lot of support. That said, they have still always answered my non-programming questions. I would recommend if you use Velocity, no reason not to try the free version, and if you find it's not sufficient for any reason, then start paying. It's dirt cheap any way you look at it.

It must have been something else then... When I was paying indirectly through Velocity, there were a couple of data streams I could not get, but I can't remember what they were. Either way, there are differences and a potential SC customer should consider whether paying through a broker will give him what he needs.

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  #20 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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SteveC55374 View Post
Hi everyone .. I am considering a change from X_Trader to either Ninjatrader or Sierra Charts .. was looking for some input from people who have used both .. I trade the ES and some CL .. but mostly the ES

Thanks for your Time

@SteveC55374,

actually I don't qualify for your request since I never used sierra charts. but if you don't mind here are some more thoughts. just trying to keep it real after all those hype posts for sierra.

- I don't know a single feature I would like to have from sierra that I can't have with nt7. I admit most are build-in with sierra and 3rd party for nt7. but on the other hand, after seeing many sierra charts, I believe the nt7 custom indicators are more accurate. even though sierra is doing a good job copying nt-indicators (like @Fat Tails vwap) and convert those to sierra.

- also many users are complaining about crashes and who knows what issues with nt7. here I'm totally convinced it's not a nt but a user problem. a good example are badly coded indicators. I use and push nt7 a lot, but don't have any problems at all.

- here are some stats from the bmt community. looking at member and programmer of the year, 4 out of 5 are nt users. trading platform of the year is nt. I was surprised to see sierra in 3rd place, didn't think they would make it in the top 10.

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of course in the end it's your call. but I would definitely test both platforms.

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