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There is no such thing "Laging indicators"
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There is no such thing "Laging indicators"

  #41 (permalink)
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baruchs View Post
Refer to post #29

That's cute. Nearly everyone on the forum except you knows what the word 'lag' means in relation to indicators. I'm not going to go around telling people that speed bumps do not exist, just because I can still drive in spite of them. So, I'm not going to go around claiming lag does not exist just because I can still trade with lagging filters. If I did go around claiming that, people would endlessly try to correct me, just as they endlessly pop up in this thread trying to enlighten you on the subject. But of course you won't listen.

In the end, you may have good points to make about how you use indicators. But as long as you continue to communicate it by denying the meaning of accepted technical terms, you will only get confusion and arguments. It's evident, if you look across your own thread. I mean, either you want to communicate with people or you don't.

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  #42 (permalink)
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piersh View Post
Please read John Ehlers' excellent paper "Poles and Zeros" that can be found on this page where he quite eloquently covers the relationship between lag and error.

I was going to suggest Ehlers work but to be honest I thought it might be how can I put it tactfully ..... a little challenging for the OP. A signal processing framework is an excellent environment to discuss lag.

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  #43 (permalink)
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baruchs View Post
NickA,
You say

Well you didn't read my point or didn't understand it, but if you see lag in indicators you don't look and understand them correctly.
You see I don't care if its a 100SMA or 200SMA or what ever. I make an assumption that if price is above the 200 SMA and then goes down it will retract to the SMA and bounce up again. Thats the assumption. So I look into future and I test this assumption. If it has a statistical edge I'm glad and I trade it. I don't think well I can reduce the lag by referring to 100 SMA or 5 SMA...
Its like you say that the sun rises in the east and travels through the sky every 4 minutes the distance of it diameter. Thats what I see and its good for my purposes, to know where the sun will be in 2 hours. Now you come in and say, I was taught in 5 grade that the sun is not traveling through the sky, but the earth moves. You may be right but for the purpose of knowing where the sun will be in 2 hours my point of view is better.

Hope it makes sense.

Baruch

None what so ever to be honest with you.

Your original point was there is no such thing as lagging indicators right? It seems you are back peddling now and saying that they might exist but you just don't care? Your point seems to be a moving target?

Here (again) is a lagging indicator in TS

Plot [-1] (Close);

Q.E.D.

Another one, a 'floor trader pivot', plot on daily chart though 'works' on any chart.

plot ((H[1]+L[1]+C[1])/3);

As you can see it lags by exactly a day that's not to say it's not a useful indicator.

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  #44 (permalink)
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NickA,
My point was, is, will be that all indicators, price patterns and every thing else in TA is based on past data. (If you have an indicator based on future data, I offered to pay 100K. Its in USD).
The point is that you should not look and care how an indicator is created, but look how price behaved from some intersection (or other objective point) with the indicator in to the future. As in the example in previous post.
I don't want to repeat my self so all the arguments you can read from my previous posts.

Baruch

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  #45 (permalink)
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baruchs View Post
NickA,
My point was, is, will be that all indicators, price patterns and every thing else in TA is based on past data. (If you have an indicator based on future data, I offered to pay 100K. Its in USD).
The point is that you should not look and care how an indicator is created, but look how price behaved from some intersection (or other objective point) with the indicator in to the future. As in the example in previous post.
I don't want to repeat my self so all the arguments you can read from my previous posts.

Baruch

That is quite different to what you said in your first posts. What you say above is far less contentious. It is also expressed as an opinion rather than a cold hard fact. Whether I agree with it or not I would certainly not argue with that Looks like we have convergence here

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  #46 (permalink)
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I was simply stating an indicator is a instrument which indicats what may happen in the future, but not always right!

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  #47 (permalink)
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baruchs View Post
NickA,
My point was, is, will be that all indicators, price patterns and every thing else in TA is based on past data. (If you have an indicator based on future data, I offered to pay 100K. Its in USD).

Baruch

I submit a simple 9sma on a CL chart. That is based on "future" data per your request. CL is a future contract. I accept Paypal. I would prefer Euros as the dollar is not worth what it used to be...


side note re: all indicators, price patterns and every thing else in TA is based on past data - I think we have agreement in this thread I was getting worried....

“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” - Dr. Seuss

Last edited by websouth; January 11th, 2010 at 05:13 PM.
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