Day Trading Options - Options on Futures | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Day Trading Options
Updated: Views / Replies:21,012 / 72
Created: by ESFXtrader Attachments:50

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Closed Thread
 50  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Day Trading Options

  #51 (permalink)
Elite Member
desert CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, TOS
Broker/Data: AMP/wCQG, TDA
Favorite Futures: CL,YM
 
Posts: 2,027 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 2,211 given, 1,551 received

Interesting spreads ESFX. I did a simulation on ThinkOrSwim's "OnDemand" which can simulate positions on options in the past, and has historical option prices, on CELG approximating the sell call at $1.15, strike 82.5 , Jan13, and the buy call at $3.50, strike 80, Feb13. from 12/20/12 to 1/3/13
Took screenshots.

Then moved the simulated time to Jan. 3rd. Result was a similar win. Overall, I think it looks good for a little more risk for more reward. One can get out of the position faster if price goes in the money. So it still requires a good directional play.

Attached Thumbnails
Day Trading Options-celg_1.jpg   Day Trading Options-celg_2.jpg   Day Trading Options-celg_3.jpg   Day Trading Options-celg_4.jpg  

Last edited by Cloudy; January 10th, 2013 at 02:37 PM.
The following user says Thank You to Cloudy for this post:
 
  #52 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
West Coast of Florida
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, Danials Trading
Favorite Futures: TF, CL, & HO HOs
 
ESFXtrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 505 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 56 given, 2,283 received

Sorry guys---been out of commission with the flu. I expect to be much better by next week.

Kissandfly, there is no need for special software, only current or up to date option prices and charts.

Smcdaniel5507-- low risk high outcome--I'm not sure if you have follow this thread, but I do understand its title may have included binary options as you discussed, this is not the intent of my Day Trading Options thread.


Lepanto View Post
ESFX,

I did a simulated trade on SPY this morning at about 7:20 am( Pacific Standard Time):
1. Spy was at 146.30
2. Bought to open FEB 13 146 call @ 2.43 ( -3 theta)
3. Sold to open JAN 13 147 call @ .60 (-4 theta)
4. Debit 1.83 x 5 contracts

Spy thereafter went down to 145.75, but my position was inching up (positive).
Not much considering the low range day that it has been.
But, is this how this thing is supposed to react? Spy was going against my position yet, had I liquidated my position at that point, I would have been positive or break-even minus commissions.

Spy is now at 145.97( 10:47 am) and I'm at break-even, minus commissions.
Interesting.

You have the right idea and you might even be profitable on these trades.


Lepanto View Post
ESFX,

Yesterday, the $ 1.83 debit I "invested" for my simulated SPY diagonal moved from a low of $1.78 to $1.85.
This morning on the gap up, it got to $1.97, now at $1.95 ( SPY at 146.64)
Cool

I have traded some similar spreads to this with success, but most are entered where the short option pays for nearly half of the long option. That is why I noted that it is hard to locate such a trade in ETFs.

Good Trading.
WK


Last edited by ESFXtrader; January 10th, 2013 at 03:16 PM.
 
  #53 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Monrovia, California USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, optionsxpress
Favorite Futures: options
 
Posts: 8 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 26 given, 4 received


I will certainly be on the lookout for that ratio ( where the short option pays for half of the long). Thanks for that bit of info.
Currently, the diagonal spread on SPY has gone into profit at $0.22 x 500 = $110 / $915 = 12% return.
Not bad.
Again thanks for the tips. I hope you're fully recovered from your bout with the flu.

 
  #54 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
West Coast of Florida
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, Danials Trading
Favorite Futures: TF, CL, & HO HOs
 
ESFXtrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 505 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 56 given, 2,283 received

Day Trading Options

Hello fellow option traders.
I have decided to add another trade for your perusal. Some time back, I placed a trade and kept records on it. I just ran across the record that I kept. I thought you might like to consider just such a trade for yourself.
The length of time held on this trade depends on the trader. At the time placed, we had no weekly options. Certainly, now, that offers so many more trades during the year.
The trade is to buy an ITM Strangle on the symbol SPY on Tuesday before option expiration. The SPY was priced at $129.2 when the trade was placed. After checking historical records, I concluded that the best price for the options was as close to $1.50 for both the calls and puts. On my trade, the calls cost $1.50 and the puts cost $1.65. The cost of my trade was 1.5 + 1.65 = 3.15 X 100 shares per contract = $315 X 10 contracts for my trade = $3150 + commissions of $40 (buy & sell) = Total of $3190. The spy price dropped to $127.50 and my trade sold for $9200. Puts = 9.00 and calls = .20 $9200 - $3190 = $6050 net.
One could trade this on IWM, SPY, etc.

I hope this gives you another idea on how to set up a trade.
If the volatility is high, the cost will be high and limits potential profits. Any big move in the market or increase in volatility will show a profit on the trade. Sometimes the trade can be close on the same day. One can also only close one side, the hugely profitable one, of the trade if they expect a reversal, where the other side can add more profit.

I will add the option chains so you can follow it this week.
Good trading.
WK
PS Although I had paper traded this for a few months with success, This is the only live trade I ever placed. When I saw these records, I sure was sorry That I hadn't continued this trading. I will start with less contracts and build up according to volatility. You must decide for yourself if this looks good for you.

Attached Thumbnails
Day Trading Options-spy_option_chain2013-01-15_0120.png   Day Trading Options-iwm_option_chain2013-01-15_0122.png  
The following 5 users say Thank You to ESFXtrader for this post:
 
  #55 (permalink)
Elite Member
Seattle WA/USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ThinkorSwim, NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Gold, Futures, Euro
 
Posts: 21 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 1 given, 9 received


ESFXtrader View Post
Hello fellow option traders.
I have decided to add another trade for your perusal. Some time back, I placed a trade and kept records on it. I just ran across the record that I kept. I thought you might like to consider just such a trade for yourself.
The length of time held on this trade depends on the trader. At the time placed, we had no weekly options. Certainly, now, that offers so many more trades during the year.
The trade is to buy an ITM Strangle on the symbol SPY on Tuesday before option expiration. The SPY was priced at $129.2 when the trade was placed. After checking historical records, I concluded that the best price for the options was as close to $1.50 for both the calls and puts. On my trade, the calls cost $1.50 and the puts cost $1.65. The cost of my trade was 1.5 + 1.65 = 3.15 X 100 shares per contract = $315 X 10 contracts for my trade = $3150 + commissions of $40 (buy & sell) = Total of $3190. The spy price dropped to $127.50 and my trade sold for $9200. Puts = 9.00 and calls = .20 $9200 - $3190 = $6050 net.
One could trade this on IWM, SPY, etc.

I hope this gives you another idea on how to set up a trade.
If the volatility is high, the cost will be high and limits potential profits. Any big move in the market or increase in volatility will show a profit on the trade. Sometimes the trade can be close on the same day. One can also only close one side, the hugely profitable one, of the trade if they expect a reversal, where the other side can add more profit.

I will add the option chains so you can follow it this week.
Good trading.
WK
PS Although I had paper traded this for a few months with success, This is the only live trade I ever placed. When I saw these records, I sure was sorry That I hadn't continued this trading. I will start with less contracts and build up according to volatility. You must decide for yourself if this looks good for you.


Hey, I definitely agree with you. I did a few trades like with AAPL a few months back. It pays well when the underlying moves nicely. But if the underlying does not move, then both the call and the put end up decaying. I worked like 2 times and then didnt work the next 3 times. The next 3 times, AAPL did move bu not as much to give me nice profits against the time decay for the weekly options.

I havent tried on SPY. But this should work in an environment when a large move is expected. But the problem is that with the expectance of a large move, the IV increase as well and as a result your call and put option price gets bloated. By the time the move is done, IV collapses. As a result of IV collapse, the inflated value of both your legs comes back to normal. So I treat this as a gamble. I cant see this having atleast a 60%-70% success.

What do you think?

Thanks

 
  #56 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,352 given, 83,230 received

Carley Garner will be back on Monday, February 25th @ 4:30 PM ET for a webinar on Options 201 - Spreads and Strategies. Details here:
https://futures.io/options-cfd-trading/26008-webinar-options-trading-201-spreads-strategies-carley-garner.html

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

 
  #57 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
NY
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: TOS
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 5 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

whats the best way to learn this strategy?

 
  #58 (permalink)
Elite Member
Sunshine Coast, Australia
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Investor/RT
Broker/Data: Stage 5, IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 18 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 90 given, 6 received

Hi ESFX,

Thanks for starting this thread and putting in an effort over such a long time. I am very interested in your take on options trading.

It seems to me that the critical factor in the success of the trades is the correct reading and prediction of the underlying stock. Not only this, but it has to actually move enough to give you a profit that it must be at least a moderately volatile stock. Whilst I appreciate the there is some protection from the downside in your time decay (depending on your position), is it not your excellence in reading the market rather than your particular strategy that makes you successful in these trades?

Could you please update us on your current thinking regarding these options strategies and maybe expand a little on what and why you are looking for in the initial setup to choose a direction. I realise this is a very large question, and appreciate whatever time you can give it.

Regards.

 
  #59 (permalink)
Elite Member
NW Florida
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OX and TOS
Favorite Futures: Futures Options, Stocks
 
opts's Avatar
 
Posts: 234 since Aug 2012
Thanks: 29 given, 107 received

Was looking for the CCI count back method description as well. You can take something from the screen shots but other info would be nice...

Thread dead?

 
  #60 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
West Coast of Florida
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, Danials Trading
Favorite Futures: TF, CL, & HO HOs
 
ESFXtrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 505 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 56 given, 2,283 received

Day Trading Options


I have not had much time to followup with threads, but you may want to know that you can get a list of all the weekly options available to trade here:
CBOE - Micro Site
Nothing has changed and day trading options is very profitable. It is best to use the shortest time frame option, as the option price moves more closely to the price of the underlying ETF or stock, etc. I recommend trading only those assets where there is sufficient volume on both the asset and options of it to allow you to get in and out of the trade without difficulty.
Here are some weekly options: DJX, SPX, NDX, RUT, DIA, SPY,
AGQ, EEM, EFA, EWJ, EWZ, FAS, FAZ, FXE, FXI, GLD, GDX, IWM, QQQQ, SDS
SLV, SSO, TBT, TLT, TNA, TZA, USO, UNG, UVXY, VXX, XLB, XLE, XLF, XME, XOP
AA, AAPL, ABT, ABX, CAN, AET, AGNC, AIG, AMRN, AMZN, ANF, ANR, APA, APC
APOL, ARNA, AXP, BA, BAC, BAX, BBRY, BBY, BIDU, BIIB, BK, BMY, BP, BRCM, BX
C, CAT, CELG, CF, CHK, CL, CLF, CMG, COF, COH, COP, COST, CSCO, CREE, CRM, CVX
DDD, DE, DECK, DELL, DIS, DNDN, DOW, DVN, EBAY, EMC, F, FB, FCX, FFIV, FSLR
GE, GG, GILD, GM, GMCR, GME, GOOG, GPS, GRPN, GS, HAL, HD, HES, HLF, HON, HPQ
IBM, INTC, IOC, IP, ISRG, JCP, JNJ, JOY, JPM, KMB, KO, KORS, LINE, LLY, LNKD, LOW, LULU, LVS
M, MA, MCD, MCP, MDLZ, MET, MGM, MMM, MNKD, MON, MOS, MPEL, MRK, MRVL, MS, MSFT, MU
NAV, NEM, NFLX, NKE, NOK, NTAP, NVDA, ORCL, OXY, PBR, PCLN, PFE, PG, PM, POT, PSX
QCOM, QCOR, QIHU, S, SBUX, SCTY, SINA, SLB, SLW, SNDK, SODA, SRPT, STX, SU
T, TGT, TIF, TIVO, TSLA, TSO, TXN, UA, UNH, UNP, UNXL, UPS, UTX, V, VALE, VHC, VLO, VMW, VOD, VVUS, VZ
WAG, WFC, WFM, WLT, WMB, WMT, WYNN, X, XOM, YHOO, YUM, ZNGA

I suggest you only try and follow the bigger movers peak to peak or P/P where the best opportunities are offered. Think: volume and range and option price for your account. GOOG is not suitable for some accounts. The ideal price for more costly options is from $5 to $6. It is advantageous to use a Delta of around .70 for most day trading.
Here is an explanation of delta for those who do not know what it is:
Learning Markets - Investing education and trading ideas
If your account is under $25,000, you will need to grow your account to actually day trade it. One way is to place a trade as a day trade and after you have your expected move on your option, sell an option against your position which puts credit in your account. The sell or short option may even make your trade a free trade, if the option has moved sufficiently enough to cover the original cost of your long option. You can close the position the following day. For those with an account under $25K who make more than 2 day trades during any five day time frame, you will be blocked from further trading for some time. You will only be able to close an open trade.
Hope this helps and may you succeed in all you endeavors.
WK

The following 4 users say Thank You to ESFXtrader for this post:

Closed Thread



futures io > > > > Day Trading Options

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trading Futures with options as protection Gooffy2010 Commodities Futures Trading 7 November 7th, 2017 12:06 PM
Options Trading Platforms sysot1t Options on Futures 47 November 26th, 2016 07:56 AM
Trading Index Options OTM Vertical Credit Spreads HowardCohodas The Elite Circle 62 August 17th, 2011 10:10 AM
Does knowing Options help in trading? tellytub The Elite Circle 12 July 26th, 2011 09:38 AM
Options and CFDs Trading Subforum Big Mike Options on Futures 0 October 28th, 2010 01:07 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:19 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-14 in 0.17 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.221.76.68