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Options Trading Platforms
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Options Trading Platforms

  #21 (permalink)
Go Bears!
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Do is fairly vague. But if I had to pick one (do or don't do options), given the fact that they can be charted and traded, I'd be inclined to agree with sam028. Is there the possibility to "do" more, heck yes, and I hope so... I still await to hear back from MC on this topic...

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  #22 (permalink)
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we are on the same page then...

MC doesnt do options...

but just like any other charting package, it can chart option data (after all that is simple to do)... and just like any other trading platform that supports a broker with OPRA feed that trades options, it can trade those instruments as well... given the new symbology in place makes it super easy...

so its ability to trade options is extremely limited as I have stated on the thread...

it can chart, and execute simple buy/sell... and also some trade management with the DT edition.


sam028 View Post
Moderator Note
Some posts have been move from SC thread to DDT thread, and now from DDT thread to this one.
Not easy to clean...



@sysot1t, about MC and options, we have a definition problem.

You can buy and sell options with MC:
Attachment 35206

If you the word "do", like in "do options", means something different than buy and sell, like trading a spread directly, or sending a stop order to buy at an IV level and not at a specific price, you're right, MC doesn't "do" that


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  #23 (permalink)
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TonyB View Post
Do is fairly vague. But if I had to pick one (do or don't do options), given the fact that they can be charted and traded, I'd be inclined to agree with sam028. Is there the possibility to "do" more, heck yes, and I hope so... I still await to hear back from MC on this topic...

"do" is not vague, when taking into the context of what you were comparing... TOS... but you say "potato" I say "potato" ... MC still doesnt do options within the context... being more explicit on what you are trying to accomplish is still necessary in any event, refer to prior post.. What I find more interesting is that you had formulated an opinion without even knowing its feasibility and trying it out yourself.. but to each its own.

Can you define your requirements for an options trading platform? If it comes down to only charting an option and buy/sell puts/calls, then go with MC and be done.

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  #24 (permalink)
Go Bears!
Bay Area, CA - US
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: TOS, TS & MC
Broker/Data: TDA & TS
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sysot1t View Post
"do" is not vague, when taking into the context of what you were comparing... TOS... but you say "potato" I say "potato" ... MC still doesnt do options within the context... being more explicit on what you are trying to accomplish is still necessary in any event, refer to prior post.. What I find more interesting is that you had formulated an opinion without even knowing its feasibility and trying it out yourself.. but to each its own.

Can you define your requirements for an options trading platform? If it comes down to only charting an option and buy/sell puts/calls, then go with MC and be done.

Any opinion I might have formulated is from folks here, such as yourself. I was not able to find anything on MC's website. I have been asking, for that reason - I don't know. And clearly, I'm not alone. You seem to know more than most on this topic, so thank you.

As an indication to my ignorance on this topic, and my desire to learn, here is a post from yesterday in the MC thread:

https://futures.io/platforms-indicators/2698-multicharts-multicharts-multicharts-60.html#post109530

Most of my efforts go into the underlying. But yes, I'd want an option chain, which doesn't seem to exist. I'd like to have access to the Greeks, complex order entry made easy, risk / reward analysis, etc...

It's clear that I'd need something else, possibly Excel + an API, as mentioned, to aid with some of these short-comings. And once I knew what I wanted, it looks like MC can be used to trade options.

The whole "do" thing is waste of time and semantics. Does The Home Depot do tools and building supplies? I'd say yes, but I certainly wouldn't send someone there who doesn't know what they are doing and what supplies they need for the task-at-hand. I go there to get what I need, and leave.

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  #25 (permalink)
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TonyB View Post
The whole "do" thing is waste of time and semantics. Does The Home Depot do tools and building supplies? I'd say yes, but I certainly wouldn't send someone there who doesn't know what they are doing and what supplies they need for the task-at-hand. I go there to get what I need, and leave.

Where would you send someone like this then? No offense, but in this case you seems to be that guy who insists on going to The Home Depot and want to buy everything just for in case you might need it. Do you really think this is practical and realistic to want to learn to trade stocks, futures, forex, options at the same time? This take many people years to master one market and then many are still not successful, but you want to do it all at once.

Why not decide what you really want to focus on and get a platform for that. Once you have mastered that, you will have a better idea on what you need in a platform and probably would realize by then that you do not need any other markets.

Also keep in mind that if some features are not listed on a vendor's website, this is probably because they don't support it. Vendors do not provide a long list of things they do not support.

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  #26 (permalink)
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@TonyB... "do", has nothing to do with semantics.. it comes down to the context used... keep in mind that no-one cant help/assist you with your questions if you are not clear as to what you are inquiring about. The context of your comparison of MC to TOS was completely wrong as MC does not "do" options as TOS does. I will leave things at that.

The only thing I can recommend you do, is to write down what you want your options trading platform to do. Create a score card, write down the things that matter to you the most and then assign a ranking value as to what is most important to you in relation to each criteria.

Then go through the available platforms on the market place and compare them. What matters to me might not be what matters to me, so it is critical that you perform your own comparison. Basing an opinion as to what something does merely on comments from others, that you dont know if they are right or wrong or the perspective from which they are coming from, is always an error IMO.

Anyhow, I too focus more on the security first, and the derivative second.. and then on the trade management piece... as others found, Excel was best.. it will allow you to do everything across the board... including complex orders.. just no opportunity scans, etc....

what I have came to understand is that you wont find a single platform for trading options that will have everything an option trader would care about under the sun.... the closes I came to is OptionNet Explorer, and it is still not 100% and not publicly available.

but as I said, you first need to figure out what you care about.. so just create the criteria and score the tools against it to meet your needs.

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  #27 (permalink)
Go Bears!
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thatguy View Post
Where would you send someone like this then? No offense, but in this case you seems to be that guy who insists on going to The Home Depot and want to buy everything just for in case you might need it. Do you really think this is practical and realistic to want to learn to trade stocks, futures, forex, options at the same time? This take many people years to master one market and then many are still not successful, but you want to do it all at once.

Why not decide what you really want to focus on and get a platform for that. Once you have mastered that, you will have a better idea on what you need in a platform and probably would realize by then that you do not need any other markets.

Also keep in mind that if some features are not listed on a vendor's website, this is probably because they don't support it. Vendors do not provide a long list of things they do not support.


With respect to the The Home Depot analogy, I'd send the person to the local Mom / Pop hardware store that still exists in some communities. From my experiences and with those who I associate, it is not uncommon to be greeted by an employee, typically an older fella, who wants to help and understand your project, walk you down the aisles, teaching along the way. I can go on, but I think the point is clear...

No offense taken. I appreciate the bluntness, the tone, not so. I've been open about by ignorance. Let's be clear. Nowhere here did I say that I want to learn all of these instruments at the same time. On top of that, I've learned a great deal about stocks over 20+ years, and a fair amount about options over the past 6 or so. I'm not saying I know all there is to know about these; but that I'm in a comfort zone where I'm not actively trying to learn more. What I want to learn now is futures. I have stated this at least a few times in my posts on this forum. I'm hoping that is ok...

And, where did I say I want to do it all at once? To the contrary, I said that I did not. Visions of trading the ES from one chart, a stock in another, while pulling-the-trigger on an unrelated option is some grandiose vision that seems to exist in the minds of others. Don’t pin that on me…

I didn't realize that I can only focus on one thing. Serious? While I realize that one can trade options or even futures in IRA accounts, I don't plan to do the later, at least not anytime soon, if ever. So, it will be stock and options for me, still. Oh crap, that's two things. I can only focus on one; and now I want to learn another, a third? God forbid.

As I said before, I envision stock and option strategies remaining core of what I do. I’m now very intrigued by futures, obviously, and wish to secure a platform that will aid me in my analysis and trading of such instruments. If such a platform can be leveraged to assist me in other investing pursuits, that’s an added benefit, and possibly a factor in what platform I choose. Whether it is MC, SC, or other, that has been my inquiry, here on these boards.

Thanks to sysot1t, I now realize that MC does not have the capability to replace the functionality that exits in TOS. I heard that that it does options, then that it doesn’t, then that it does, but, not what one might expect, in relation to TOS, as an example. I currently don’t have the luxury of having MC to play with, so I’m at the mercy of what I read here at the moment…

sysot1t, I just saw your other response – thank you. I appreciate the input, especially since it is off topic here. I have such a list, actually it somehow became two, and both SC and MC address them all, with the exception of SC not addressing portfolio backtesting, yet at least. A secondary, wishlist item, is the ability for me to do options trading; and I had questions about this ability and I’ve learned that I can “do” it via MC, but I’d have to perform my homework elsewhere. Not exactly what I was hoping for, but again, it was more of a wishlist item… Given that most of my analysis happens in the evenings, I can use TOS or other tool, and if a trade decision is made, I can then execute it through MC, if I wanted. I just seems that even the execution might be easier in some instances not using MC.

Thank you, and you also thatguy.

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  #28 (permalink)
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TonyB View Post
sysot1t, I just saw your other response – thank you. I appreciate the input, especially since it is off topic here. I have such a list, actually it somehow became two, and both SC and MC address them all, with the exception of SC not addressing portfolio backtesting, yet at least. A secondary, wishlist item, is the ability for me to do options trading; and I had questions about this ability and I’ve learned that I can “do” it via MC, but I’d have to perform my homework elsewhere. Not exactly what I was hoping for, but again, it was more of a wishlist item… Given that most of my analysis happens in the evenings, I can use TOS or other tool, and if a trade decision is made, I can then execute it through MC, if I wanted. I just seems that even the execution might be easier in some instances not using MC.

Thank you, and you also thatguy.

the discussion is within context of the thread (to discuss options trading platfoms) .... so dont worry about it...says the OP ..

I dont think one has to focus on a single type of derivative either... I started with Stocks, moved to Options, skipped ETF's and now I am in futures (which also have options) and looking at ETF's as well. Do whatever your abilities and portfolio size will let you do. I dont agree about not doing derivatives on IRA account though.. but that is another discussion.

As to the Options piece, I think you have it backwards. There are to completely different things, order management and options analysis. TOS has both things into one, with some challenges none-the-less. Their option analytics and backtesting is great, same goes for their options trading, but their charting... well, not the best in the world, but not the worst either. SC/MC can do chartin and very limitted Order Management... I would not think of them as tools for trading options, but merely as tools for looking at the underlying and finding opportunities to trade options on.

I looked at SC once, but I cant comment on that platform... I didnt use it much as it was just not for me... I could not intuitively use it, and I believe a trading platform should be intuitive. There are lots of members here that would be better suited to comment on SC.

I own MC and I own NT7... either one can do what you are thinking as they are when it comes to options trading missing the same exact pieces.. however, I like better the simple EL within MC, even when it is not 100% the same as EL within TS8/9 and you will get completely different results in terms of back testing..

BTW, TOS has IMO the best backtesting for options as long as you are doing EOD and not Intraday.

I would suggest you look at the SmartEdge platform from schwab as well... I posted a couple of pics on the forum.

Also, Multicharts has a free version... it wont let you create custom indi's, but you can do everything else with it.

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  #29 (permalink)
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OptionNet Explorer

I have mentioned Option Net Explorer more than once, here are a few pics... this is what lead me to start investigating it and why I keep in touch with the developer waiting for it to be made public. It has most of the features that I have duplicated with spreadsheets.

Attached Thumbnails
Options Trading Platforms-3-28-2011-5-35-06-pm.png   Options Trading Platforms-3-28-2011-5-35-31-pm.png  
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  #30 (permalink)
Go Bears!
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sysot1t View Post
the discussion is within context of the thread (to discuss options trading platfoms) .... so dont worry about it...says the OP ..

I dont think one has to focus on a single type of derivative either... I started with Stocks, moved to Options, skipped ETF's and now I am in futures (which also have options) and looking at ETF's as well. Do whatever your abilities and portfolio size will let you do. I dont agree about not doing derivatives on IRA account though.. but that is another discussion.

As to the Options piece, I think you have it backwards. There are to completely different things, order management and options analysis. TOS has both things into one, with some challenges none-the-less. Their option analytics and backtesting is great, same goes for their options trading, but their charting... well, not the best in the world, but not the worst either. SC/MC can do chartin and very limitted Order Management... I would not think of them as tools for trading options, but merely as tools for looking at the underlying and finding opportunities to trade options on.

I looked at SC once, but I cant comment on that platform... I didnt use it much as it was just not for me... I could not intuitively use it, and I believe a trading platform should be intuitive. There are lots of members here that would be better suited to comment on SC.

I own MC and I own NT7... either one can do what you are thinking as they are when it comes to options trading missing the same exact pieces.. however, I like better the simple EL within MC, even when it is not 100% the same as EL within TS8/9 and you will get completely different results in terms of back testing..

BTW, TOS has IMO the best backtesting for options as long as you are doing EOD and not Intraday.

I would suggest you look at the SmartEdge platform from schwab as well... I posted a couple of pics on the forum.

Also, Multicharts has a free version... it wont let you create custom indi's, but you can do everything else with it.

Ok, you threw me there a bit with EL, but that's clearly Easy Language. Yes, that was on the list actually, a language that I could learn fairly easily. I didn't realize that the EL between MC and TS yielded different results though. Good to know. That was an added plus for me, being able to leverage existing TS efforts. I suppose that's still true, but it would need some work... I read somewhere that EL might be overly "simple" to create complex strategies that some might want to create. A different topic, but interesting one if true.

Oh, I agree that order mgt and analysis are different things alright. Couldn't agree more. Not sure what I said that led you to believe that, but I'm with ya 100% there...

Think MC has plans to incorporate more into their options offering?

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